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Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 2:00:09 AM   
SweetShyGirl22


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I've always been curious as to know why?

Why is it that men generally see women as the weaker more submissive sex. What is it about us?
I would really like a guys perspective on this.
When you look at a woman what makes you see her that way? Usually women ate described as weak, fragile, emotional, delicate just to name a few.
I would really appreciate a guys opinion as to why some of them see women like that.

I ask because I just got into a rather heated argument with a close male friend of mine. He doesn't know about my submissive lifestyle, but we were having a conversation and he proceeded to tell me how he felt that women were really only good for certain things like cooking, cleaning, having children and making her bf/husband happy. And that he felt women will never really be truly able to do a job as good as a man because they let their emotions get in the way. And that he felt like the world would be a better place if women stuck to doing what they were genetically made to do which is take on a more nurturing motherly more soft feminine role. And to let men do what they were more genetically inclined to do which is take on a more dominant controlling role. To not interfere with what he calls "women's work" like cooking and cleaning. So thoughts or opinions?
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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 2:26:34 AM   
AKinkCounselor


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Statistically, men are stronger. Obviously there are always individual cases where this can be proven inaccurate but if you take the species as a whole, there are obvious physical differences.

Men have greater upper body strength, thicker skin, are less susceptible to bruising, and a lower awareness of pain. The male skull is thicker and stronger than women's

In women the Corpus Calosum, the bridge between the left and right side of the brain is four times larger. This allows a more diverse set of brain functions to be applied to a thought process, which begins to explain the differences in approach. This makes women more intuitive, allowing input from more areas of the brain, whereas men will focus on a single objective and approach it in a goal orientated way.

I could probably fill a couple of pages with things like this, but it is largely irrelevant.

What your friend is suffering from is centuries of sexism that has distorted his view of what women are capable of. There are differences between men and women, but the fact that the U.S. army is currently in the process of allowing women to begin Army Ranger training would suggest that the difference isn't all that great.

Maybe in a few years time, you could find one of those female army rangers, to help him to understand the error of his thoughts.

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 2:33:38 AM   
wittynamehere


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetShyGirl22
Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex?
Why is it that men generally see women as the weaker more submissive sex.

You're manipulating words. Females are traditionally seen as "the weaker sex", as in, they are physically less strong than men. That's on average. Some women are stronger than some men, obviously.
You're then claiming that the expression has something to do with submission, which it does not. The expression has only ever referred to females being physically weaker, not more submissive.
It may be true that females are more likely to be submissive than males are, but that would have nothing at all to do with the phrase in question.

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 2:46:49 AM   
SweetShyGirl22


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetShyGirl22
Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex?
Why is it that men generally see women as the weaker more submissive sex.

You're manipulating words. Females are traditionally seen as "the weaker sex", as in, they are physically less strong than men. That's on average. Some women are stronger than some men, obviously.
You're then claiming that the expression has something to do with submission, which it does not. The expression has only ever referred to females being physically weaker, not more submissive.
It may be true that females are more likely to be submissive than males are, but that would have nothing at all to do with the phrase in question.


I think you've taken my whole question out of context. I am not "manipulating words" when I am basically repeating what I had a discussion about with my friend verbatim to what he said. Even if I were not repeating his words, it still wouldn't be "manipulating words" or "claiming" anything. I didn't claim that weaker=more submissive.

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 5:32:10 AM   
InHisHeart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetShyGirl22

I ask because I just got into a rather heated argument with a close male friend of mine. He doesn't know about my submissive lifestyle, but we were having a conversation and he proceeded to tell me how he felt that women were really only good for certain things like cooking, cleaning, having children and making her bf/husband happy. And that he felt women will never really be truly able to do a job as good as a man because they let their emotions get in the way. And that he felt like the world would be a better place if women stuck to doing what they were genetically made to do which is take on a more nurturing motherly more soft feminine role. And to let men do what they were more genetically inclined to do which is take on a more dominant controlling role. To not interfere with what he calls "women's work" like cooking and cleaning. So thoughts or opinions?


I don't find men in general as seeing women in that light. I'll have to inform Master that he's interfering with my "woman's work" since he does the majority of the cooking in our house and has no problem doing household chores along with me. I'm 56 and with the exception of one male cousin, I haven't seen that bullshit attitude among men I've known throughout my life, male friends, men I was in a relationship with, male family members, male co-workers. The male cousin who takes the prize for being a sexist ass has 4 divorces under his belt due to his attitude towards women. Even my 2 grandfathers (who would be well over 100 years old if they were alive) didn't have that "women's place" attitude.

Maybe your friend watches too many reruns of the old sitcoms like Leave it to Beaver.



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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 7:06:15 AM   
DesFIP


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Interestingly enough, I got into a discussion yesterday about if women were all the political leaders, we would have less war. We cited Golda Meir, who established peace in the Middle East because she didn't need to play 'whose dick is bigger' and Sadat didn't feel that he needed to do that with her.

With that said, my question is why are you friends with someone who thinks like this? Someone who thinks educating women is useless since they all ought to be home cooking and cleaning. Someone who believes women don't deserve to be employed and promoted on merit?

Personally I don't make friends with bigots. And that's what he is. Would you stay friends with him if he said hateful things about blacks, Asians, or Jews, or the elderly? If not, then why do you tolerate this bigotry?

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 8/20/2014 7:10:49 AM >


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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 7:06:57 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetShyGirl22

Why is it that men generally see women as the weaker more submissive sex. What is it about us?


I can honestly say with confidence that none of the men who are significant in my life share your friend's opinion of the role and usefulness of women. Sounds like your friend is pretty misogynistic.

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 8:05:12 AM   
GoddessManko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AKinkCounselor

Statistically, men are stronger.
Obviously there are always individual cases where this can be proven inaccurate but if you take the species as a whole, there are obvious physical differences.

Men have greater upper body strength, thicker skin, are less susceptible to bruising, and a lower awareness of pain. The male skull is thicker and stronger than women's

In women the Corpus Calosum, the bridge between the left and right side of the brain is four times larger. This allows a more diverse set of brain functions to be applied to a thought process, which begins to explain the differences in approach. This makes women more intuitive, allowing input from more areas of the brain, whereas men will focus on a single objective and approach it in a goal orientated way.

I could probably fill a couple of pages with things like this, but it is largely irrelevant.

What your friend is suffering from is centuries of sexism that has distorted his view of what women are capable of. There are differences between men and women, but the fact that the U.S. army is currently in the process of allowing women to begin Army Ranger training would suggest that the difference isn't all that great.

Maybe in a few years time, you could find one of those female army rangers, to help him to understand the error of his thoughts.


I loved a lot of what you said but I would add to the bolded part PHYSICALLY. As far as emotional and mental fortitude as you stated, women can hold their own in more ways than one.
But why I quoted you in particular counselor is because you subtley point out exactly what the OP is trying to say. You could have stated the bolded statement differently based on your knowledge of neuroscience but you stated it in a generalized format anyway.
So again, ask, why is it perceived women are the weaker sex?
I believe a part of that is because the male gender is largely aesthetic. They give credence to things that are tangible almost always rather than intangible. They are designed that way for whatever reason. A man might respond very easily to visual stimuli while a woman would need more than that, like cognitive, tactile, olfactory etc.
This can be a very touchy issue if a man doesn't have the ability despite his inherent nature to scratch beneath the surface. That is difficult to do and sometimes you cannot blame him for it. It just MAKES SENSE. There is VISUAL proof to validate his opine, and even more than that.

ANT AND THE ELEPHANT

A man will see a woman and what does he see?
More than likely, someone who is a few inches shorter than him, softer than him (women retain fat and have much smaller muscles than men. Testosterone is what makes a man bulk and have denser bones), someone soft spoken perhaps, or who speaks at a much higher pitch than himself.
I mean just with these few examples right there, you have so many varying forms of stimuli telling the man "she's softer, she's weaker, she's not as strong, big and sturdy as myself".
And that may be true in the physical sense but unless he was taught the ant and elephant analogy, he won't think very much differently (except with the intervention of strong female figures in his life).
Even with some submissive men they might think, "I will ALLOW her to dominate me" rather than "she CAN dominate me". There is a distinctive difference there, as subtle as those statements seem.
I'm very "small" (though I prefer lean, our frames are smaller) compared to most men though I'm 5'9. I am a size 0/1, I have always been perceived as a runner but in actuality I'm a powerlifter.
Now my male counterparts at the gym, many of them young, might see me legpressing 500 lbs and be unimpressed, but when all facts are considered: 1- the length of my legs and muscle which literally makes such feats twice as hard, 2- the fact that yes, I am a woman, I don't have muscle building testosterone overflowing my body the way that they do, 3- my weight:height ratio, even men much shorter than me are almost guaranteed to weigh more. But it HAS HAPPENED, an older, obviously experienced lifter came over to the machine and gave me my props. He asked me "How many times can you press that?" I responded, "20." And to that he said shocked "It's nice to see some of the girls in here are kicking ass."

I try to give the men with such a perception a bit of leeway and understanding, after all, it's all about propensity (and a bit of mathematics ) but the ant vs elephant is one you can always use to shift gears in his thinking. Our society doesn't help, women are still paid 30% less than male counterparts and the people most affected by poverty throughout the world are still women and children. Is it a man's world? Yes, and many men are simply born into privilege, they don't know what it's like to be without, they may be lucky, but THEY ARE NOT STRONG. Someone who knows real struggle and the uphill climb necessary to defy the odds is far stronger.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 8/20/2014 8:10:00 AM >


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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 8:26:25 AM   
HeartAndSoul31


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In the majority of cases we are the weaker sex as far as physically. That's a fact. As far as mentality that's a whole different ball of wax. I believe a lot of it is due to upbringing.
Take my best friend and I for example. My brother was taught early to be tough, work, and be a leader. The girls were taught the more domestic side. We were treated differently. My friends parents treated the boys and girls the same. I tend to like to look toward the man for big decisions and am more emotional. My friend on the other hand, is a rock mentality, and as strong as any man. In fact, the girls in that family have been more successful and stable then the boys.
In this day and age, considering the number of women in power play mental positions, your friend is factually mistaken. Physically though, anatomically a mans built is designed to be genetically stronger.

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 10:13:08 AM   
DarkSteven


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Bluntly, you have a friend who is an idiot.

I'm a Dom and therefore in charge of who does what. I end up doing dishes, etc., because my female sub is much better at the traditionally male stuff than I am. I take care of the yardwork because she's not cool with bees and I have two hives in the back yard. I assign by things other than gender.

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 10:55:32 AM   
littleladybug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Bluntly, you have a friend who is an idiot.

I'm a Dom and therefore in charge of who does what. I end up doing dishes, etc., because my female sub is much better at the traditionally male stuff than I am. I take care of the yardwork because she's not cool with bees and I have two hives in the back yard. I assign by things other than gender.


My prior Dom would have dinner ready for me every Friday evening when I would arrive at his place. Actually, I had to call him when I was about an hour away, so that he could make sure everything was in the oven/on the stove in a timely manner. No doubt that he was the *leader*....but he was also a smart guy. He knew that his submissive would NOT be happy cooking after working a full day and driving several hours. An unhappy submissive equals a not-so-good meal (at least in my case).

Looking back on our relationship, I think one reason I really respected him was because he never adopted the "gender roles" to the exclusion of the basic facts of our reality. We started out about 1000 miles away from each other, and ended up a little over 100 miles away. (Long story...but, upshot is that we ended up seeing each other just about every weekend, with me going to him way more than him to me....) Due to these circumstances, even if we had wanted the aforementioned "gender roles", they would never have worked. I am eternally grateful that he "got that". No, he wasn't a great cook....but the thought is literally what counted in this circumstance.

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 11:00:43 AM   
Musicmystery


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Well, first, Steven is right -- your friend is an idiot. And like Stephen, I'm not bound by artificial/superficial gender roles . . . for example, in the morning, my girl (who is a horse fanatic) goes out to do the barn chores, bring in the horse, etc., while I make breakfast and clean up the dishes. It's a practical matter. Other times, if my day is full and she's home, dinner will be waiting when I arrive. I usually do yardwork and walk the dogs because I like to do both.

The point is to get it all done as effectively as possible so we can spend more quality time together.

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 12:39:01 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetShyGirl22
Why is it that men generally see women as the weaker more submissive sex.


I guess you know this thread might have looked totally different if you'd started it in 'Ask a Mistress'?

I won't address the 'submissive' part of that question: I think it requires an analysis of its own. As for women as 'weaker': well, the obvious answer is that, in times past, they weren't able to grab as much of the world's desired things as have men. That's still very much the case, of course - but, the more that time's gone on, the more it's been realised that it's the human brain's abilities that counts the most in the struggle for the world's desirable things. The jury's still out on which sex has 'the best brain' - but, whatever the conclusion, it's already pretty damned obvious that there's very little difference when you set the human brain in the context of all other species.

One of the many, many desirable things that men have claimed is the bulk of the power to define words. 'Strength' and 'weakness' are two of them. There's no inherent reason why 'strength' must apply first and foremost to muscular strength. It might be applied to longevity or the ability to avoid disease and accidents.

In short: this answer to this question boils down to the usual old boring lesson: Question assumptions; one's own, as well as those of everyone else.



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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 1:19:44 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetShyGirl22

I've always been curious as to know why?

Why is it that men generally see women as the weaker more submissive sex. What is it about us?
I would really like a guys perspective on this.
When you look at a woman what makes you see her that way? Usually women ate described as weak, fragile, emotional, delicate just to name a few.
I would really appreciate a guys opinion as to why some of them see women like that.

I ask because I just got into a rather heated argument with a close male friend of mine. He doesn't know about my submissive lifestyle, but we were having a conversation and he proceeded to tell me how he felt that women were really only good for certain things like cooking, cleaning, having children and making her bf/husband happy. And that he felt women will never really be truly able to do a job as good as a man because they let their emotions get in the way. And that he felt like the world would be a better place if women stuck to doing what they were genetically made to do which is take on a more nurturing motherly more soft feminine role. And to let men do what they were more genetically inclined to do which is take on a more dominant controlling role. To not interfere with what he calls "women's work" like cooking and cleaning. So thoughts or opinions?



Simone de Beauvoir had it about right when she said that much of it is cultural and women, some women, perpetuate the cycle.

In my opinion, women aren't naturally submissive, no more than men, it's a state of mind.

But then de Beauvoir, self-proclaimed feminist, ended up serving up women on a plate for her communist, existentialist lover. So, that doesn't look good when marrying her outlook with her actions, and some may say that she succumbed to nature in the end. Not my opinion though.




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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 1:59:40 PM   
PeonForHer


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She talked the talk but couldn't quite walk the walk, IMO. And her hub was a *very* strong-minded sort of man.

To all:

I don't think we should be too hard either on the OP or on her 'unreconstructed' male friend, here. She's in her early twenties; it's likely that he's around the same age. God knows, I believed in a lot of stupid bollocks at that age, too. I think the old friendship they have is more important.

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 6:03:23 PM   
InHisHeart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I don't think we should be too hard either on the OP or on her 'unreconstructed' male friend, here. She's in her early twenties; it's likely that he's around the same age. God knows, I believed in a lot of stupid bollocks at that age, too. I think the old friendship they have is more important.


Could be his young age and he's in for a rude awakening some day. My sons are 29 and 31, if they had that attitude when they were younger, I'd have to slap them upside the head to knock some sense into them, their dad (who was my Dom) would do the same. Their female partners would never put up with that crap if they had that attitude about women.

I wouldn't continue being friends with a guy that had such a low opinion of women. I wouldn't consider him much of a 'close' friend because it would tell me he has a low opinion of me also since I'm a woman. As for the OP and her friendship with this guy, that's her choice.


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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/20/2014 8:53:54 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AKinkCounselor

Men have greater upper body strength, thicker skin, are less susceptible to bruising, and a lower awareness of pain. The male skull is thicker and stronger than women's

In terms of overall physical strength, men are physically stronger in general. Women do have an advantage with their lower-body strength, specifically thigh muscles. Even without martial-arts training, a woman's kick can be...incapacitating, to say the least. Also, I have always heard that females tend to have a higher threshold for pain (greater tolerance) than males do.

As an aside, my father used to always say that women were mentally/emotionally/psychologically stronger than men are, almost without exception--and he was in charge of the lives and/or livelihoods of tens of thousands of able-bodied men spanning the course of over half a century of professional, both civil & military, and diplomatic careers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AKinkCounselor

In women the Corpus Calosum, the bridge between the left and right side of the brain is four times larger. This allows a more diverse set of brain functions to be applied to a thought process, which begins to explain the differences in approach. This makes women more intuitive, allowing input from more areas of the brain, whereas men will focus on a single objective and approach it in a goal orientated way.

Can we say "multi-tasking" everyone? I liken the agility built in to the female brain to the difference between an on-off switch and a rotary dial. Males work in more of the on-off switch modality, or having to shift gears like a manual transmission; whereas, females can navigate their mental processes seamlessly.

Two disparate thoughts here. First is, I wonder whether your (childhood? You say "close") friend had a working mother or was a latchkey kid who now resents non-stay-at-home moms because his own mother wasn't *there* for him.
Does he plan to guarantee his future wife the ability to stay home and raise a family without having to rely upon her earned income? He can talk the talk, but can he walk the walk?

quote:

ORIGINAL: AKinkCounselor

What your friend is suffering from is centuries of sexism that has distorted his view of what women are capable of....

Maybe in a few years time, you could find one of those female army rangers, to help him to understand the error of his thoughts.

Perhaps OP should tell her friend that a *real* man would enlist in the armed forces to do his part for his country (instead of sitting around playing video games like a pansy-ass). Oh, he'd definitely get his rude awakening then, especially when he has to accept female authority from his superior officers.

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/22/2014 7:35:56 PM   
SweetlySadistic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetShyGirl22
Why is it that men generally see women as the weaker more submissive sex.


I guess you know this thread might have looked totally different if you'd started it in 'Ask a Mistress'?

Oh totally. I know I'm not a guy but I will answer anyway, at least to say that assumptions make an ASS out of U and ME. I hope you know that, like Peon said, had this been started in Ask a Mistress the thread would have unfolded entirely differently. I have two male subs, MEN, who most definitely do NOT see me as a weak female. In general, yes, women have less upper body strength than men, but that's not always the case. Also, not all women are emotionally fragile creatures. Hell, I know some men that are emotionally way more fragile than a lot of women I know. Generalizations are born out of ignorance, I think your friend sounds kind of like an idiot. In MY opinion anyway.

SweetlySadistic1

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/26/2014 10:21:03 AM   
CountDrackula


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Tis a bit like saying you can see the Great Wall of China from space…a misnomer.
ask someone what do they mean by space and which distance and smote them hard, but that is neither here or there, you cannot...you would be more likely to see the Great Pyramid or as the factually incorrect buffoons refer to it as Pyramid of Khufu – yet another misnomer there is no proof at all that clown built it, nor the sphinx.

So, what have we learned thus far..other than space aliens all hail the lizard king or remnants of ancient civilizations built the finest piece, of known, engineering on our planet

Women can be faster stronger whence younger indeed at a 50/50 ratio or is that 1:1

This is also true for later…although the environment in which both men and women operate at it plays an impact on most peoples conditioning…and I am not going to even bring up the misnomer of whose pain thresh is statistically higher..I remember a girl piano player challenged me to that finger locking game..few people could have bested that..i only did for my love of cake grabbing (or finger press ups if you wish me to use no analogy-although cake grabbing was not one)

Therefore we have no real accurate definition of strength, speed, pain endurance and the ability to whip up a nice muffin – which requires a certain skillset– that escapes me – and when I bash my wee toe of the table I do not cry..i cannot does that make me stronger

Anyhoos, bizarrely I read pretty much ops thread on a pof profile today – I did not like it a “girl wrote it (allegedly I could not tell for sure)”

My point being I hear and read that a lot ive never truly understood it, or people who believe it (I did not say you believed it op).

The definition of strength/fragility is subjective, well at least to some and not prescriptive.

the misnomer comes about because its blatant cock thinking - no other real reason...no hormones or gnomes needed(genomes)


< Message edited by CountDrackula -- 8/26/2014 10:22:51 AM >

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RE: Why are women generally seen as the weaker sex? - 8/26/2014 8:38:38 PM   
MasterK09


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Joined: 8/26/2014
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Not going to lie my sub she's got a black belt and has served in the military on one of our first dates after I dared her to try and knock me on my ass next thing I know I'm face down on the floor and she's trying to make me say pretty please (if I had said that she would have let me go) I held out for twenty five minute thank god for pizza delivery because I was seconds away from swallowing my pride.

(in reply to CountDrackula)
Profile   Post #: 20
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