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RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 7:12:29 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		It's good that you're capable of acknowledging that there might possibly be people out there who know a lot more about guns than you, Bama. Really good.

Since you don't have the faintest notion about my experience with firearms, you're certainly not qualified to make any assessment of my knowledge of guns, mind you.

But I am so, so glad we've got past this "there is no such thing as an unloaded gun" nonsense. "Treat every gun as if it were loaded" is so much more intelligent, and (for those who care at all for the basic laws of physics) actually in accordance with physical reality.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 7:17:01 AM   
HeartAndSoul31


Posts: 148
Status: offline 		Considering the increase in mass shootings, people are basically afraid.
The 911 caller embellished the truth and just that one sentence might have been the source of getting that young man killed. Horrible story.
For safety reasons toy guns should look like toy guns in my opinion. Although a pellet gun is not a toy.
So many bad judgement calls in this tragedy.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 7:17:05 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

It's good that you're capable of acknowledging that there might possibly be people out there who know a lot more about guns than you, Bama. Really good.

Since you don't have the faintest notion about my experience with firearms, you're certainly not qualified to make any assessment of my knowledge of guns, mind you.

But I am so, so glad we've got past this "there is no such thing as an unloaded gun" nonsense. "Treat every gun as if it were loaded" is so much more intelligent, and (for those who care at all for the basic laws of physics) actually in accordance with physical reality.

Any time, particularly on this subject, when you side with Ken you are signing up with the legion of the ignorant. As I have explained to you before in American lexicon (particularly among shooters) they mean the same thing. But if you feel better about it with treat fine.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 7:56:36 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Kirata

Point that fucking thing at my cat, let alone my kids, and if I even remotely think you might use it, you're shot.

That sort of behaviour will get you free room and board at state expense for several years.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:10:54 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: BamaD


I understood that it was a pellet rifle, not a bb gun (my sons is both) many pellet rifles can be pumped up to have a muzzle energy equal to a .22.

Once again I think you are full of shit. Which pellet guns sold at walmart can do this? Which pellet guns in the whole world can do this?




(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:12:10 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Aylee

Yes they are. I am way better than Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Megan Mahoney, the Boston Bombers, Nolan.

Just how are you better?



(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:14:09 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: BitYakin

WOW really? and repeatedly calling people "dumbass" & "stupid" in a public venue is not treating them as LESS than anyone else?

No it is called pointing out their ignorance and/or stupidity. Not that they are less human.




(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:15:40 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: BitYakin


PS. hey dumbass, he was defending the man with the gun, and not the man with the TOY

He was defending the punkass cop who shot first and asked questions later

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:18:35 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: BamaD

To bad I'm not doing that.
True there is little chance that he could have reproduced the guys face for a police artist.
You ignore a couple of facts.
A He could see him well enough to know he was carrying a metal cylinder. This destroys your argument that he couldn't see him.

What reason did the little punk have for leaving the safety of the house?

B He warned the guy to stop not once, not twice, but three times.

So the politically connected punk claims.


He could see him well enough to know that he was still advancing on him with the metal cylinder.

Had he remained in the house where it was safe and waited for the cops the old geezer would not be dead.





< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/30/2014 8:19:19 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:23:15 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeartAndSoul31

Considering the increase in mass shootings, people are basically afraid.
The 911 caller embellished the truth and just that one sentence might have been the source of getting that young man killed. Horrible story.
For safety reasons toy guns should look like toy guns in my opinion. Although a pellet gun is not a toy.
So many bad judgement calls in this tragedy.

Toy guns have brightly colored tips at the end of the barrel and are easily distinguishable from the real thing.
Having seen the video while listening to the 911 call I have to say he didn't just embellish, what he said was happening had very little relationship to what was actually going on. Crawford didn't threaten anyone and only a moron or a liar could say that he was loading the gun. He killed Crawford as surely as if he had fired the shot.
You are correct, a pellet gun is not a toy, which is why it did not have the bright tip.
If the pellet guns were not in boxes they should have been, they always are at the local Walmarts.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/30/2014 8:25:16 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to HeartAndSoul31)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:23:42 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD


I understood that it was a pellet rifle, not a bb gun (my sons is both) many pellet rifles can be pumped up to have a muzzle energy equal to a .22.

Once again I think you are full of shit. Which pellet guns sold at walmart can do this? Which pellet guns in the whole world can do this?






It depends on which .22 you're comparing the pellet rifle to.

You can get pellet rifles that will push a pellet out at 1000fps. They don't get all that close to a standard velocity .22 bullet (about 70 ft-lbs versus about 100 ft-lbs). You can get .22 bullets that are much weedier, mind you.

I think Bama's point is that, esp at short range. a .22 airgun can be pretty dangerous.



_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:28:57 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD


I understood that it was a pellet rifle, not a bb gun (my sons is both) many pellet rifles can be pumped up to have a muzzle energy equal to a .22.

Once again I think you are full of shit. Which pellet guns sold at walmart can do this? Which pellet guns in the whole world can do this?






It depends on which .22 you're comparing the pellet rifle to.

You can get pellet rifles that will push a pellet out at 1000fps. They don't get all that close to a standard velocity .22 bullet (about 70 ft-lbs versus about 100 ft-lbs). You can get .22 bullets that are much weedier, mind you.

I think Bama's point is that, esp at short range. a .22 airgun can be pretty dangerous.



The documentation that came with my sons pellet gun said it equaled a .22, that is what I had to go on. And you are correct about my point. Still, and I don't think that you will disagree with this Crawford wasn't a threat to anyone and was set up by a inaccurate phone call.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:42:36 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		I don't disagree with the point you were making about air rifles, or that Crawford didn't seem to be a threat, or that the phone call was inaccurate.

I think I disagree with you in terms of the extent to which the police officers should be held responsible though. I think that as a general rule that if you're the person with your finger on the trigger, there's a modicum of personal responsibility to assure yourself that the target is a threat before engaging.



_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:43:07 AM   
HeartAndSoul31


Posts: 148
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeartAndSoul31

Considering the increase in mass shootings, people are basically afraid.
The 911 caller embellished the truth and just that one sentence might have been the source of getting that young man killed. Horrible story.
For safety reasons toy guns should look like toy guns in my opinion. Although a pellet gun is not a toy.
So many bad judgement calls in this tragedy.

Toy guns have brightly colored tips at the end of the barrel and are easily distinguishable from the real thing.
Having seen the video while listening to the 911 call I have to say he didn't just embellish, what he said was happening had very little relationship to what was actually going on. Crawford didn't threaten anyone and only a moron or a liar could say that he was loading the gun. He killed Crawford as surely as if he had fired the shot.
You are correct, a pellet gun is not a toy, which is why it did not have the bright tip.
If the pellet guns were not in boxes they should have been, they always are at the local Walmarts.


I looked at my sons collection of toy guns. They all do have a bright orange tip. Some are very small and from a distance or a certain angle these guns look very real.
We will have to disagree that the caller was the sole reason this young man was killed.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:52:04 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

It's good that you're capable of acknowledging that there might possibly be people out there who know a lot more about guns than you, Bama. Really good.

Since you don't have the faintest notion about my experience with firearms, you're certainly not qualified to make any assessment of my knowledge of guns, mind you.

But I am so, so glad we've got past this "there is no such thing as an unloaded gun" nonsense. "Treat every gun as if it were loaded" is so much more intelligent, and (for those who care at all for the basic laws of physics) actually in accordance with physical reality.

I have never claimed to be the ultimate authority. Why don't you think anti gun people who don't know straight up about firearms or their use and yet pontificate endlessly consider themselves experts.
And I didn't say might possibly be people who know more about firearms than me I said it was a fact.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:57:11 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I don't disagree with the point you were making about air rifles, or that Crawford didn't seem to be a threat, or that the phone call was inaccurate.

I think I disagree with you in terms of the extent to which the police officers should be held responsible though. I think that as a general rule that if you're the person with your finger on the trigger, there's a modicum of personal responsibility to assure yourself that the target is a threat before engaging.



I stated at the beginning of the thread that Crawford was unwise in the way he handled the gun. That was intentionally or stupidly interpreted as a racist comment, mildly humorous since at the time I didn't know he was black.
While the cops did shoot fast they thought they were walking into a situation that had little or know relationship to what was actually going on.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:58:38 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

It's good that you're capable of acknowledging that there might possibly be people out there who know a lot more about guns than you, Bama. Really good.

Since you don't have the faintest notion about my experience with firearms, you're certainly not qualified to make any assessment of my knowledge of guns, mind you.

But I am so, so glad we've got past this "there is no such thing as an unloaded gun" nonsense. "Treat every gun as if it were loaded" is so much more intelligent, and (for those who care at all for the basic laws of physics) actually in accordance with physical reality.

I have never claimed to be the ultimate authority. Why don't you think anti gun people who don't know straight up about firearms or their use and yet pontificate endlessly consider themselves experts.
And I didn't say might possibly be people who know more about firearms than me I said it was a fact.


No no don't get me wrong... this is really good progress, well done!



_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:58:39 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeartAndSoul31


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeartAndSoul31

Considering the increase in mass shootings, people are basically afraid.
The 911 caller embellished the truth and just that one sentence might have been the source of getting that young man killed. Horrible story.
For safety reasons toy guns should look like toy guns in my opinion. Although a pellet gun is not a toy.
So many bad judgement calls in this tragedy.

Toy guns have brightly colored tips at the end of the barrel and are easily distinguishable from the real thing.
Having seen the video while listening to the 911 call I have to say he didn't just embellish, what he said was happening had very little relationship to what was actually going on. Crawford didn't threaten anyone and only a moron or a liar could say that he was loading the gun. He killed Crawford as surely as if he had fired the shot.
You are correct, a pellet gun is not a toy, which is why it did not have the bright tip.
If the pellet guns were not in boxes they should have been, they always are at the local Walmarts.


I looked at my sons collection of toy guns. They all do have a bright orange tip. Some are very small and from a distance or a certain angle these guns look very real.
We will have to disagree that the caller was the sole reason this young man was killed.


Surely you agree that his misrepresentation of the situation was the primary reason.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to HeartAndSoul31)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 9:03:03 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		[ED for TMI]

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
While the cops did shoot fast they thought they were walking into a situation that had little or know relationship to what was actually going on.


If anyone, in uniform or not, fires a gun in a situation where they have little no idea about what is going on, they should go to jail.

Fuck me, in Kosovo, they carried green cards that explained that they had to 1) Identify the weapon, 2) Identify the threat 3) Determine that the threat was imminent and then 4) Give a warning; before even taking the safety off - and that was in a civil war.



< Message edited by crazyml -- 9/30/2014 9:05:53 AM >

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 9:05:12 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeartAndSoul31


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeartAndSoul31

Considering the increase in mass shootings, people are basically afraid.
The 911 caller embellished the truth and just that one sentence might have been the source of getting that young man killed. Horrible story.
For safety reasons toy guns should look like toy guns in my opinion. Although a pellet gun is not a toy.
So many bad judgement calls in this tragedy.

Toy guns have brightly colored tips at the end of the barrel and are easily distinguishable from the real thing.
Having seen the video while listening to the 911 call I have to say he didn't just embellish, what he said was happening had very little relationship to what was actually going on. Crawford didn't threaten anyone and only a moron or a liar could say that he was loading the gun. He killed Crawford as surely as if he had fired the shot.
You are correct, a pellet gun is not a toy, which is why it did not have the bright tip.
If the pellet guns were not in boxes they should have been, they always are at the local Walmarts.


I looked at my sons collection of toy guns. They all do have a bright orange tip. Some are very small and from a distance or a certain angle these guns look very real.
We will have to disagree that the caller was the sole reason this young man was killed.


Surely you agree that his misrepresentation of the situation was the primary reason.


No, I disagree. The pulling of the trigger was the primary reason the person died.




_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 140
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