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RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 9:16:49 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: crazyml


ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD


I understood that it was a pellet rifle, not a bb gun (my sons is both) many pellet rifles can be pumped up to have a muzzle energy equal to a .22.

Once again I think you are full of shit. Which pellet guns sold at walmart can do this? Which pellet guns in the whole world can do this?


It depends on which .22 you're comparing the pellet rifle to.

It is the .22 bullet and not the weapon that determines the muzzle energy.
A quick trip to google will show that the muzzle energy of a 22 will penetrate a human being at say 10' a phoquing pellet gun will not.

You can get pellet rifles that will push a pellet out at 1000fps. They don't get all that close to a standard velocity .22 bullet (about 70 ft-lbs versus about 100 ft-lbs). You can get .22 bullets that are much weedier, mind you.
Those would be .22short which are used in arcade shooting galleries and even they are much more powerful than a standard pellet gun.

I think Bama's point is that, esp at short range. a .22 airgun can be pretty dangerous.

To whom?


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Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 9:22:26 AM   
crazyml


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Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Babble babble babble

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Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 9:23:17 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD


ORIGINAL: thompsonx




I understood that it was a pellet rifle, not a bb gun (my sons is both) many pellet rifles can be pumped up to have a muzzle energy equal to a .22.

Once again I think you are full of shit. Which pellet guns sold at walmart can do this? Which pellet guns in the whole world can do this?


The documentation that came with my sons pellet gun said it equaled a .22, that is what I had to go on.

You, who claim to be an expert in fiearms, believed sales literature as opposed to what you claim to know about firearms?



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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 9:34:06 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: crazyml

I think I disagree with you in terms of the extent to which the police officers should be held responsible though. I think that as a general rule that if you're the person with your finger on the trigger, there's a modicum of personal responsibility to assure yourself that the target is a threat before engaging.

In some jurisdictions it is illegal to be black in public. It can be a capital offense if the person is black and armed?



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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 10:24:40 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

It's good that you're capable of acknowledging that there might possibly be people out there who know a lot more about guns than you, Bama. Really good.

Since you don't have the faintest notion about my experience with firearms, you're certainly not qualified to make any assessment of my knowledge of guns, mind you.

But I am so, so glad we've got past this "there is no such thing as an unloaded gun" nonsense. "Treat every gun as if it were loaded" is so much more intelligent, and (for those who care at all for the basic laws of physics) actually in accordance with physical reality.

I have never claimed to be the ultimate authority. Why don't you think anti gun people who don't know straight up about firearms or their use and yet pontificate endlessly consider themselves experts.
And I didn't say might possibly be people who know more about firearms than me I said it was a fact.


No no don't get me wrong... this is really good progress, well done!



don't get me wrong it represents no change whatsoever.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 9/30/2014 8:53:55 PM   
ThirdWheelWanted


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

You can get pellet rifles that will push a pellet out at 1000fps. They don't get all that close to a standard velocity .22 bullet (about 70 ft-lbs versus about 100 ft-lbs). You can get .22 bullets that are much weedier, mind you.

I think Bama's point is that, esp at short range. a .22 airgun can be pretty dangerous.


I've seen some that claim velocities in the 1200-1300 range. I believe Airforce .22 rifles max out at 1200, although they are adjustable. That's in the range of some .22LR rounds.

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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 12:42:28 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
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Status: offline 		FR for the off topic discussion

ok there are air guns in the power range of .22lr round like this but are them sold at the toy department of walmart?
I don't know how it works there, as it seems in some part of usa they give .22lr carabines to 5 year olds as birthday present, but I suppose those air guns sold in toy department are under the 7.5 joules limit.

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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 1:11:27 AM   
stef


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Status: offline 		You should be asking freedomdwarf1. He's a pellet gun ballistics geenyus and sooper sniper.

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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 5:17:13 AM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The cops should have at least looked around a little before shooting. There could have been people in the line of fire and if they had simply given him a chance to comply they wouldn't have needed to kill him at all since he wasn't actually carrying a rifle and wasn't meaning anyone any harm. Which you would have known if you had actually watched the video. No one could possibly watch the video and come away not shocked to their core by what happens.

That's how I know when the right wingers defending the cops didn't watch it.



Yes they should have looked around but they didn't. I know this because despite your lie that I didn't watch the video, i did in fact watch it.

Now at this point I have to wonder why you keep singing the same lie over and over again and the only conclusion I can come up with is you really like it when people tell you what a lying little dirt bag you are and you are fishing for more. You really should consider getting professional help.

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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 5:25:38 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

It's good that you're capable of acknowledging that there might possibly be people out there who know a lot more about guns than you, Bama. Really good.


Actually he said "Because I know people who know a lot more about guns than I do" and that's a far cry from might possibly. So now I have to ask...did you go to the same school as DK because he has a lot of problems with comprehension also.

quote:


Since you don't have the faintest notion about my experience with firearms, you're certainly not qualified to make any assessment of my knowledge of guns, mind you.

But I am so, so glad we've got past this "there is no such thing as an unloaded gun" nonsense. "Treat every gun as if it were loaded" is so much more intelligent, and (for those who care at all for the basic laws of physics) actually in accordance with physical reality.


Yes I would agree you should always assume they are loaded. Did bama imply differently?


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 1:58:30 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		[ed for pointlessness]


< Message edited by crazyml -- 10/1/2014 2:06:16 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 2:37:24 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

FR for the off topic discussion

ok there are air guns in the power range of .22lr round like this but are them sold at the toy department of walmart?
I don't know how it works there, as it seems in some part of usa they give .22lr carabines to 5 year olds as birthday present, but I suppose those air guns sold in toy department are under the 7.5 joules limit.

No the pellet rifles sold here are not sold as toys, for example Walmart has them in the sporting goods, (outdoor, camping, etc) section and carefully delineated from toys. They are kept in boxes near the firearms section. They even put the bb guns there.


< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/1/2014 2:38:25 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to eulero83)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 2:47:04 PM   
steelchip


Posts: 40
Joined: 7/17/2012
Status: offline 		its complete bullshit this asshole hasnt been charged with anything yet...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/26/walmart-ohio-shooting-charges-911-calller-john-crawford

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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 2:53:29 PM   
steelchip


Posts: 40
Joined: 7/17/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

FR for the off topic discussion

ok there are air guns in the power range of .22lr round like this but are them sold at the toy department of walmart?
I don't know how it works there, as it seems in some part of usa they give .22lr carabines to 5 year olds as birthday present, but I suppose those air guns sold in toy department are under the 7.5 joules limit.

No the pellet rifles sold here are not sold as toys, for example Walmart has them in the sporting goods, (outdoor, camping, etc) section and carefully delineated from toys. They are kept in boxes near the firearms section. They even put the bb guns there.



i took this picture in a walmart one week after the shooting



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by steelchip -- 10/1/2014 2:54:42 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 3:03:20 PM   
steelchip


Posts: 40
Joined: 7/17/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

FR for the off topic discussion

ok there are air guns in the power range of .22lr round like this but are them sold at the toy department of walmart?
I don't know how it works there, as it seems in some part of usa they give .22lr carabines to 5 year olds as birthday present, but I suppose those air guns sold in toy department are under the 7.5 joules limit.

No the pellet rifles sold here are not sold as toys, for example Walmart has them in the sporting goods, (outdoor, camping, etc) section and carefully delineated from toys. They are kept in boxes near the firearms section. They even put the bb guns there.


heres another one same store same day..




< Message edited by steelchip -- 10/1/2014 3:05:53 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 3:09:21 PM   
steelchip


Posts: 40
Joined: 7/17/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steelchip

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

FR for the off topic discussion

ok there are air guns in the power range of .22lr round like this but are them sold at the toy department of walmart?
I don't know how it works there, as it seems in some part of usa they give .22lr carabines to 5 year olds as birthday present, but I suppose those air guns sold in toy department are under the 7.5 joules limit.

No the pellet rifles sold here are not sold as toys, for example Walmart has them in the sporting goods, (outdoor, camping, etc) section and carefully delineated from toys. They are kept in boxes near the firearms section. They even put the bb guns there.


heres another one same store same day..









Attachment (1)

(in reply to steelchip)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 3:10:42 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Who pulled the trigger?



_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 3:31:49 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steelchip

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

FR for the off topic discussion

ok there are air guns in the power range of .22lr round like this but are them sold at the toy department of walmart?
I don't know how it works there, as it seems in some part of usa they give .22lr carabines to 5 year olds as birthday present, but I suppose those air guns sold in toy department are under the 7.5 joules limit.

No the pellet rifles sold here are not sold as toys, for example Walmart has them in the sporting goods, (outdoor, camping, etc) section and carefully delineated from toys. They are kept in boxes near the firearms section. They even put the bb guns there.



i took this picture in a walmart one week after the shooting



I haven't told you what they do with them there.
What your Walmart does has little bearing to what mine does.
And all of them in your pictures each pellet rifle has a box, in fact none are just lying there without a box, so he should have had the box to carry it in.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to steelchip)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 3:33:42 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steelchip


quote:

ORIGINAL: steelchip

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

FR for the off topic discussion

ok there are air guns in the power range of .22lr round like this but are them sold at the toy department of walmart?
I don't know how it works there, as it seems in some part of usa they give .22lr carabines to 5 year olds as birthday present, but I suppose those air guns sold in toy department are under the 7.5 joules limit.

No the pellet rifles sold here are not sold as toys, for example Walmart has them in the sporting goods, (outdoor, camping, etc) section and carefully delineated from toys. They are kept in boxes near the firearms section. They even put the bb guns there.


heres another one same store same day..









You aren't the guy who made the 911 call are you, because from your description I expected to see something much different.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to steelchip)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Ohio walmart shooting - 10/1/2014 3:53:29 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: steelchip
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83
FR for the off topic discussion

ok there are air guns in the power range of .22lr round like this but are them sold at the toy department of walmart?
I don't know how it works there, as it seems in some part of usa they give .22lr carabines to 5 year olds as birthday present, but I suppose those air guns sold in toy department are under the 7.5 joules limit.

No the pellet rifles sold here are not sold as toys, for example Walmart has them in the sporting goods, (outdoor, camping, etc) section and carefully delineated from toys. They are kept in boxes near the firearms section. They even put the bb guns there.

i took this picture in a walmart one week after the shooting

I haven't told you what they do with them there.
What your Walmart does has little bearing to what mine does.
And all of them in your pictures each pellet rifle has a box, in fact none are just lying there without a box, so he should have had the box to carry it in.


There were many mistakes made that day and someone paid a heavy toll for those mistakes. Yet, the person that paid that toll, made the greatest number and depth of those mistakes. We can sit here and argue the fine points; splitting hairs to our heart's content. The fact remains that events and mistakes drove events to the outcome that took place. In my state, there is a ban on ANYTHING that looks like a firearm in a 'brick and mortar' store; unless its an actual firearm dealer. And those dealers are VERY careful on who is allowed to touch the product. In other states, the practice is allowed. Maybe we should count ourselves lucky its taken this long to have this sort of incident play out due to not considering possible outcomes with bad or ineffective firearm coverage. Stuff like this has placed liability in Wal-Mart's hands. And who wouldn't want to sue a business that makes tens of billions in a year when you have the company dead to rights?

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Profile   Post #: 160
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