RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman

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RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 1:21:21 PM

Posts: 8730
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

and exactly what would the lesson be? never question authority?

You may be a fan of anarchy; I am not.

I'm afraid that the Rule of Law means that you are beholden to authority, whether or not you like it.

This is not a dig at you, Eulero, but Italian culture is different in the sense that your history is tainted by political extremes of both right and left.

By all means question authority, but when the polis are trying to undertake their duties in a reasonable fashion, and you're hampering their efforts; then there's no use in crying when they lock you up.

This country has a long history of liberty. We have always had a small standing army because the people don't like big gangs with too much power, and our polis wear blue due to a reaction from the public to the effect that we did not want an army or anything resembling an army on our streets.

But, this doesn't mean we're a pack of lunatics who can't respect the Rule of Law.

The two go hand in hand for me. If you think that you're entitled to ride roughshod over authority at every turn, then at some point you certainly will have a mob running round your streets.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to eulero83)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 1:36:10 PM

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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

The rules and regulations are also supposed to apply to the police officers, too. No one is above the law.

Agreed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I think it really depends on how high the stakes are and whether or not it's really worth it. Is society any safer or more secure due to this "lawbreaker" being tased and subdued by the police?

Couldn't disagree more.

The Rule of Law is a principle, and should never take account of consequence.

It is an arbitrator in individual disputes, and is there to facilitate order, and like any concept it needs to be applied fairly and squarely; without service to the subjective, for it to hold meaning and garner respect.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 1:38:39 PM

BamaD

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The two go hand in hand for me. If you think that you're entitled to ride roughshod over authority at every turn, then at some point you certainly will have a mob running round your streets.

Or a reaction from the government that we don't even want to think about.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 2:08:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

She was obstructing the officers who were attempting to arrest drug dealers.

Eh? A tased and incapacitated woman lying on the ground and whose health now needs to be seen to presents even more of an obstruction, doesn't it?

no

Really? According to medical advice, tasers can cause cardiac arrests - even in young people, never mind people in their sixties. Thus,

""Law enforcement and other individuals using a stun gun need to be aware that cardiac arrest can occur, however infrequently, and therefore it should be used judiciously, and an unconscious individual should be monitored closely and resuscitated if necessary."

It seems negligent therefore to taser someone and not attend to his/her health afterwards. In which case, you can't effectively focus on your drugs bust, can you?

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/244968.php

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(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 2:19:31 PM

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

She was obstructing the officers who were attempting to arrest drug dealers.

Eh? A tased and incapacitated woman lying on the ground and whose health now needs to be seen to presents even more of an obstruction, doesn't it?

no

Really? According to medical advice, tasers can cause cardiac arrests - even in young people, never mind people in their sixties. Thus,

""Law enforcement and other individuals using a stun gun need to be aware that cardiac arrest can occur, however infrequently, and therefore it should be used judiciously, and an unconscious individual should be monitored closely and resuscitated if necessary."

It seems negligent therefore to taser someone and not attend to his/her health afterwards. In which case, you can't effectively focus on your drugs bust, can you?

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/244968.php

Aye, and if a polis dog bites yer arm off, you'll be missing a hand for a knife or fork.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 2:27:31 PM

Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

and exactly what would the lesson be? never question authority?

You may be a fan of anarchy; I am not.

I'm afraid that the Rule of Law means that you are beholden to authority, whether or not you like it.

This is not a dig at you, Eulero, but Italian culture is different in the sense that your history is tainted by political extremes of both right and left.

By all means question authority, but when the polis are trying to undertake their duties in a reasonable fashion, and you're hampering their efforts; then there's no use in crying when they lock you up.

This country has a long history of liberty. We have always had a small standing army because the people don't like big gangs with too much power, and our polis wear blue due to a reaction from the public to the effect that we did not want an army or anything resembling an army on our streets.

But, this doesn't mean we're a pack of lunatics who can't respect the Rule of Law.

The two go hand in hand for me. If you think that you're entitled to ride roughshod over authority at every turn, then at some point you certainly will have a mob running round your streets.

Maybe it's a cultural difference, but I don't think you are such an expert on our habits, laws, culture, politics and history and not even about the difference by generational or geografical or whatever criteria could have formed my position. I also see not all the people in your or bamaD's country agree with you, so I suppose yours are just generalizations. I've the suspect it's more a political difference. You and some others keep implying she had it coming because "she broke the law" that somehow she needed t be educated with pain, this is the concept I reject.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 2:43:55 PM

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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

The two go hand in hand for me. If you think that you're entitled to ride roughshod over authority at every turn, then at some point you certainly will have a mob running round your streets.

That could very well apply to the cop who did the tasering here, too - it may well turn out that he's considered to have 'ridden roughshod' over the authority of the policies and protocols of the police themselves. It's worth remembering here that the cop's authority in this case isn't just being questioned by the woman who was tasered and her supporters, but the police chief who entrusted that cop with his authority.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 2:46:25 PM

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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

Aye, and if a polis dog bites yer arm off, you'll be missing a hand for a knife or fork.

But you tend not to need any medical attention if all that's happened is you've been run after, caught and held by a larger and stronger person.

Incidentally, NG, does everyone spell police as 'polis' up your way?

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 2:46:43 PM

Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted
It might be nice if people stopped acting as if they're immune from the repercussions of ignoring the police.

It normally never goes well.

Oh, well then, we'd better always just obey everything anyone with a badge says! Wouldn't want anything to "not go well". Better to submit automatically every time.

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RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 2:50:37 PM

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Aye, and if a polis dog bites yer arm off, you'll be missing a hand for a knife or fork.

But you tend not to need any medical attention if all that's happened is you've been run after, caught and held by a larger and stronger person.

Incidentally, NG, does everyone spell police as 'polis' up your way?

Perhaps so, but the only point I was making is that a Taser carries less risk than a polis dog or a metal baton.

Yes, and it's pronounced polis.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 3:42:17 PM

Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

The rules and regulations are also supposed to apply to the police officers, too. No one is above the law.

Agreed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I think it really depends on how high the stakes are and whether or not it's really worth it. Is society any safer or more secure due to this "lawbreaker" being tased and subdued by the police?

Couldn't disagree more.

The Rule of Law is a principle, and should never take account of consequence.

It is an arbitrator in individual disputes, and is there to facilitate order, and like any concept it needs to be applied fairly and squarely; without service to the subjective, for it to hold meaning and garner respect.

The Rule of Law could very well go against the police and in favor of this lady who was tased. And isn't it really up to the courts to interpret the Rule of Law? As far as facilitating order, in this case, the lady was walking away, which was what the police officer wanted her to do in the first place. That would have maintained order, yet the officer's flaccid ego then became the issue, as he undoubtedly thought "This person isn't going to diss ME and get away with it!" It was no longer a matter of the Rule of Law once the officer took it as a personal thing and decided to act on his emotions.

Since when is the Rule of Law required to placate the obviously fragile egos and emotions of police officers? If they're not mentally balanced enough to do their jobs, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it, plain and simple. What does the Rule of Law have to say about that?

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 4:14:07 PM

deathtothepixies

Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

This country has a long history of liberty.

We have always had a small standing army

Would that explain why you have such a huge number of people imprisoned?

A small standing army? I googled that, and came up with your army, clearly not small, and the department for homeland security, also not small.

how would you define your modern day small standing army?

_____________________________

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 4:21:39 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

and exactly what would the lesson be? never question authority?

You may be a fan of anarchy; I am not.

I'm afraid that the Rule of Law means that you are beholden to authority, whether or not you like it.

This is not a dig at you, Eulero, but Italian culture is different in the sense that your history is tainted by political extremes of both right and left.

By all means question authority, but when the polis are trying to undertake their duties in a reasonable fashion, and you're hampering their efforts; then there's no use in crying when they lock you up.

This country has a long history of liberty. We have always had a small standing army because the people don't like big gangs with too much power, and our polis wear blue due to a reaction from the public to the effect that we did not want an army or anything resembling an army on our streets.

But, this doesn't mean we're a pack of lunatics who can't respect the Rule of Law.

The two go hand in hand for me. If you think that you're entitled to ride roughshod over authority at every turn, then at some point you certainly will have a mob running round your streets.

Maybe it's a cultural difference, but I don't think you are such an expert on our habits, laws, culture, politics and history and not even about the difference by generational or geografical or whatever criteria could have formed my position. I also see not all the people in your or bamaD's country agree with you, so I suppose yours are just generalizations. I've the suspect it's more a political difference. You and some others keep implying she had it coming because "she broke the law" that somehow she needed t be educated with pain, this is the concept I reject.

If we had more Italians on here your view would not be accepted by 100%,
would that make you wrong?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to eulero83)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 8:23:58 PM

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Yes the rules apply to cops to but they were not breaking any at the time.

Is that why the punk is in the penality box?

And while I agree the lady probably was just trying to find out what was happening, when the cops told her to stop she should have stopped.

Show me the law that says the cops have the authority to suspend the first ammendment.

Hopefully she has learned her lesson but I would not be surprised if she didn't.

What lesson would that be? Black women arent allowed to speak in public?

This idea that anyone can ignore the cops and act like asshats and the cops can't do anything to hurt them is bullshit.

In texas you can shoot the cop if he acts like a thug.

Yes the cops are supposed to go to extremes to keep people safe but after reading all the headlines does anyone here actually believe it's always going to work that way.

The winnebago case clearly states that the cops have no obligation to protect the citizen in the street, as soon as he placed her under arrest and tazed her he became instantly responsible for her well being according to the winnebago case.

So why would you intentionally put yourself in a position to provoke them. Much easier to just do what they say and step back.

You may be too young to remember this and too poorly educated to have read about it but lots of ethical people put themselves in that position. They were called "freedom riders", they were called "viet nam war protesters" . In my country every citizen has an obligation to defy authority wrongly used.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 10/6/2014 8:26:25 PM >

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 8:32:00 PM

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Actually it is a documented fact,

Just because a cop says something is so does not make it so. Havent the courts ruled that it is legal for cops to lie?

and they didn't tase her for that but for resisting arrest,

Since she broke no law, the cop never told her what she was under arrest for, so you are full of cop sucking shit.

haven't you been paying attention?

You clearly have not.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 8:33:17 PM

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dp

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 10/6/2014 8:42:45 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 8:51:57 PM

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

You may be a fan of anarchy; I am not.

I'm afraid that the Rule of Law means that you are beholden to authority, whether or not you like it.

This is not a dig at you, Eulero, but Italian culture is different in the sense that your history is tainted by political extremes of both right and left.

My knowledge of brit history is somewhat limited but I have read churchills "history of the english speaking people". He is pretty clear about the extremes of left and right that taint the history of the english speaking people.

By all means question authority, but when the polis are trying to undertake their duties in a reasonable fashion, and you're hampering their efforts; then there's no use in crying when they lock you up.

Have you satisfied yourself that that is what happened in this case?

This country has a long history of liberty.

According to you it seems to be the liberty to do as you are told by the cops.

We have always had a small standing army because the people don't like big gangs with too much power,

Active and reserve amount to about 400,000. Is that what you consider small?

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 8:55:38 PM

Posts: 480
Joined: 6/1/2008
From: Your imagination
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When I first saw this thread, it was late and I was a bit bleary-eyed. I thought it said "Cop put on leave after tasting 61-year-old woman".

This probably would have been a far more interesting thread if that had indeed been the case.

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(in reply to Zonie63)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/6/2014 8:56:56 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: L8bloomer

When I first saw this thread, it was late and I was a bit bleary-eyed. I thought it said "Cop put on leave after tasting 61-year-old woman".

This probably would have been a far more interesting thread if that had indeed been the case.

lol

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to L8bloomer)

RE: Cop put on leave after tasing 61-year-old woman - 10/7/2014 12:13:55 AM

Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

and exactly what would the lesson be? never question authority?

You may be a fan of anarchy; I am not.

I'm afraid that the Rule of Law means that you are beholden to authority, whether or not you like it.

This is not a dig at you, Eulero, but Italian culture is different in the sense that your history is tainted by political extremes of both right and left.

By all means question authority, but when the polis are trying to undertake their duties in a reasonable fashion, and you're hampering their efforts; then there's no use in crying when they lock you up.

This country has a long history of liberty. We have always had a small standing army because the people don't like big gangs with too much power, and our polis wear blue due to a reaction from the public to the effect that we did not want an army or anything resembling an army on our streets.

But, this doesn't mean we're a pack of lunatics who can't respect the Rule of Law.

The two go hand in hand for me. If you think that you're entitled to ride roughshod over authority at every turn, then at some point you certainly will have a mob running round your streets.

Maybe it's a cultural difference, but I don't think you are such an expert on our habits, laws, culture, politics and history and not even about the difference by generational or geografical or whatever criteria could have formed my position. I also see not all the people in your or bamaD's country agree with you, so I suppose yours are just generalizations. I've the suspect it's more a political difference. You and some others keep implying she had it coming because "she broke the law" that somehow she needed t be educated with pain, this is the concept I reject.

If we had more Italians on here your view would not be accepted by 100%,
would that make you wrong?

actually it would back up what I was saying, it's a political and moral difference not cultural

(in reply to BamaD)

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