quote:

No it is possible. If you saw Steve you would honest to god call him "pancake head"

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I'm not sure I agree. At least not from what I witness. Many LOVE brats, and encourage them with "punishments" for acting out, etc.

While I think that many would claim this in theory, in practical practice, I think many do think (in and out of D/s relationships) that they can FORCE change or behavior, in one way or another.

You see it on these boards a lot, "What can I do to make..."

Yeah.

*shrugs*

Really? I must admit, that's not been my take on it. Though, thinking about it, it's possible that I've assumed that the general consensus is that of the most outspoken of the femdoms here.

quote:

On the other hand, I do understand a certain good, though perhaps not very conscious, reason for femdoms to take a shine to brats. Brats 'play' with femdoms and, in so doing, maybe make them feel as though it's all lot more light hearted and human.

quote:

It must be pretty damned awful, I'd have thought, for a woman to feel as though she just must 'live' up there on that pedestal - legs always shaven, never having a period, never having a bad hair day, never needing to get down to use the toilet ... quite grim, really. I'd hate for a partner to feel that way. I'd like her to know that she can get off the pedestal and fart when she needs to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I'm not sure I agree. At least not from what I witness. Many LOVE brats, and encourage them with "punishments" for acting out, etc.

While I think that many would claim this in theory, in practical practice, I think many do think (in and out of D/s relationships) that they can FORCE change or behavior, in one way or another.

You see it on these boards a lot, "What can I do to make..."

Yeah.

*shrugs*

Really? I must admit, that's not been my take on it. Though, thinking about it, it's possible that I've assumed that the general consensus is that of the most outspoken of the femdoms here.

I'm not talking necessarily just about FemDoms or even just about these forums. I'm talking real life, and other places (FetLife, etc).

quote:

quote:

On the other hand, I do understand a certain good, though perhaps not very conscious, reason for femdoms to take a shine to brats. Brats 'play' with femdoms and, in so doing, maybe make them feel as though it's all lot more light hearted and human.

It does not take a brat to be lighthearted and playful, in my experience.

brat
noun
derogatoryhumorous
noun: brat; plural noun: brats
a child, typically a badly behaved one.
synonyms: badly behaved child, spoiled child; More

I love lighthearted, smart assed, fun-loving, humorous subs. I do not do badly-behaved, or spoiled.

quote:

quote:

It must be pretty damned awful, I'd have thought, for a woman to feel as though she just must 'live' up there on that pedestal - legs always shaven, never having a period, never having a bad hair day, never needing to get down to use the toilet ... quite grim, really. I'd hate for a partner to feel that way. I'd like her to know that she can get off the pedestal and fart when she needs to.

I'm not sure I understand. Only brats can understand FemDoms are human, or make them feel like they can be?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

I'm not sure I agree. At least not from what I witness. Many LOVE brats, and encourage them with "punishments" for acting out, etc.

While I think that many would claim this in theory, in practical practice, I think many do think (in and out of D/s relationships) that they can FORCE change or behavior, in one way or another.

You see it on these boards a lot, "What can I do to make..."

Yeah.
*shrugs*

Really? I must admit, that's not been my take on it. Though, thinking about it, it's possible that I've assumed that the general consensus is that of the most outspoken of the femdoms here.

I'm not talking necessarily just about FemDoms or even just about these forums. I'm talking real life, and other places (FetLife, etc).

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

It does not take a brat to be lighthearted and playful, in my experience.

brat noun...
a child, typically a badly behaved one.
synonyms: badly behaved child, spoiled child; More

I love lighthearted, smart assed, fun-loving, humorous subs. I do not do badly-behaved, or spoiled.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

It must be pretty damned awful, I'd have thought, for a woman to feel as though she just must 'live' up there on that pedestal - legs always shaven, never having a period, never having a bad hair day, never needing to get down to use the toilet ... quite grim, really. I'd hate for a partner to feel that way. I'd like her to know that she can get off the pedestal and fart when she needs to.

I'm not sure I understand. Only brats can understand FemDoms are human, or make them feel like they can be?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
100% agreed, in fact I have come at odds with many members who might perceive me to enjoy "I'm a groveling worm" types merely because I like to always be in control and greatly...so greatly dislike coercion of any kind from my subs.

quote:

quote:

I love lighthearted, smart assed, fun-loving, humorous subs. I do not do badly-behaved, or spoiled.

Exactly this. Add to that demanding. No, thank you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
No straight Domme I know (for lack of association with very many non-heteros) wants anything to do with a bratty sub, myself included. And yes, the door can hit him in the arse on the way out.

quote:

Playful, light resistance play, and a certain assertive deferentiality isn't being bratty and isn't indicative of lack of submissiveness on the part of the sub. I also like to kid around with my sub, just as long as he doesn't get disrespectful towards me.

From what I've seen, a *real* brat isn't a submissive. He is more of a (kinky) bottom, or what we might call a DO-ME sub.

quote:

Based on Peon's posting history (and I can sometimes have a memory like an elephant :p), I don't believe this is what he meant at all. He has never impressed me as being a fantasist wanker (or else he's got me fooled!) and likes to keep it real as in multi-dimensional, to get beyond personae projections.

quote:

Only brats can understand FemDoms are human, or make them feel like they can be?

quote:

Based on Peon's posting history (and I can sometimes have a memory like an elephant :p), I don't believe this is what he meant at all. He has never impressed me as being a fantasist wanker (or else he's got me fooled!) and likes to keep it real as in multi-dimensional, to get beyond personae projections.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsWickedPig

...which would influence one's approach in the way they wrapped their minds around it and how they laid it out for final submission ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Only brats can understand FemDoms are human, or make them feel like they can be?

God no. That'd be looney.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsWickedPig

...which would influence one's approach in the way they wrapped their minds around it and how they laid it out for final submission ;)

"Well this is exactly the point, yes? How the different behaviors are viewed by each party, separately, then as a whole."

Indeed so, and thank you for your acknowledgement. As to why I just jumped in while still feeling a bit lost in it all.... Because yes, that is the main objective and perspective one should hold when attempting to write about such a topic... but the OP "lit the fire" and now it's just a blaze.. With amazing points.. But, I just don't see OP's main point was because he was already contradictory in his initial statement, in regards to what the topic was and his indifference. *I shrug* Couldn't help but to jump in, it's just the student in me. :)

_____________________________

"Now here you must leave all distrust behind; let all your cowardice die on this spot" -Dante
~A student in the Rite of Life. One day, I will truly know the Virtues.- Respectfully, Wicked ~

(in reply to NookieNotes)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Absolutely but don't you just love the diversity :)

Without a doubt. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

Now if only some subs could see that and not treat you as interchangeable fembots.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

Now if only some subs could see that and not treat you as interchangeable fembots.

I actually love this. It shows me immediately who is not worth my time.

*smiles*

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

Now if only some subs could see that and not treat you as interchangeable fembots.

I actually love this. It shows me immediately who is not worth my time.

*smiles*

Hhah we think alike!

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName


So, if the general sissy goes through this process to feel submissive, to feel humiliated and owned then how can possibly a very feminine dominant live with a partner who has this perception on gender roles?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

Can someone here make the distinction between a sissy and a cross-dresser because to my untrained eye you seem to be blurring the line for me.

To me, a sissy is a male-identified person forced to dress as female for the purposes of servitude and humiliation. A cross-dresser chooses to dress as the gender other than their identified gender because they enjoy the dress up (or perhaps feel more comfortable).

Very different attitudes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic
I always understood sissy boy to be more about attitude... a male submissive who presents as emotionally fragile and acquiescent... perhaps weepy or effette. Perhaps somewhat (as traditional stereotypes go) feminine, but not specifically as pertains to clothing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

Can someone here make the distinction between a sissy and a cross-dresser because to my untrained eye you seem to be blurring the line for me.

To me, a sissy is a male-identified person forced to dress as female for the purposes of servitude and humiliation. A cross-dresser chooses to dress as the gender other than their identified gender because they enjoy the dress up (or perhaps feel more comfortable).

Very different attitudes.

I always understood sissy boy to be more about attitude... a male submissive who presents as emotionally fragile and acquiescent... perhaps weepy or effette. Perhaps somewhat (as traditional stereotypes go) feminine, but not specifically as pertains to clothing.

Is that incorrect?

I have one friend who is a cross dressing Sax player (and a great one) and another friend who is a super confidant and flamboyant Drag Queen... I never thought of either of them as at all "sissy"... quite the contrary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

Can someone here make the distinction between a sissy and a cross-dresser because to my untrained eye you seem to be blurring the line for me.

To me, a sissy is a male-identified person forced to dress as female for the purposes of servitude and humiliation. A cross-dresser chooses to dress as the gender other than their identified gender because they enjoy the dress up (or perhaps feel more comfortable).

Very different attitudes.

I always understood sissy boy to be more about attitude... a male submissive who presents as emotionally fragile and acquiescent... perhaps weepy or effette. Perhaps somewhat (as traditional stereotypes go) feminine, but not specifically as pertains to clothing.

Is that incorrect?

I have one friend who is a cross dressing Sax player (and a great one) and another friend who is a super confidant and flamboyant Drag Queen... I never thought of either of them as at all "sissy"... quite the contrary.

Bhruic, for my own curiosity's sake, are either of your cross-dressing friends bisexual? Hetero?

The first submissive male I ever met 25 years ago, who openly declared himself (openly per dating, not openly as in publicly) as being submissive, later confided in me that he liked to cross-dress. I was the only person he had told this to at the time, perhaps about 6 months after I had befriended him. He had an older sister who used to dress him up as a girl. Not only did he love the doting attention lavished upon him, but he had always felt protected by her. A part of him wanted to recapture these feelings.

I bring this up because there are motivations which aren't humiliation-based (as in Forced Feminization) as perhaps portrayed in FemDom porn. All I know is that there is a difference between a man with a sissy mindset and a man without one.

My cross-dressing friend is more like a sissy but he's asexual. Originally in college, he had a jealous girlfriend who insisted he wear panties so that he would be less inclined to stray or to try to cheat on her (knowing that he'd get laughed at by co-eds). This was a "forced" vanilla situation he went along with. Later he had a poly lesbian Mistress who would tell him to dress in drag convincingly and stop by the store to pick up something for her en route to her house on the weekends. She kept him in chastity, and he wasn't allowed to have sexual relations with either of her 2 female slaves. After 2 years of that, he became addicted to wearing a cockcage and became impotent. She gave him a girl's name. Not long after we met, he asked me to choose a different girl's name for him (as a friend) so he wouldn't be reminded of her, and we did.