quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Then how can you be so sure gun ownership is a large enough deterrent to crime with no proof to back it up... at least enough proof to say the proliferation of conceal and carry is worth the carnage of children's loss of life. I am not necessarily against gun ownership but perhaps the type of weapons and where they should be allowed and penalties for carelessness resulting in injury or death may need to be weighed against the hundreds of children killed or injured each year to accidental gun accidents... Is it worth it?

I believe studies should be made by neutral entities to find answers to this question. There may very well be solutions without repealing conceal and carry but this will require new laws and regulations that will not happen without statistics to show a need.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

No comment on firearms safety courses.

What does that have to do with the number of children killed or injured..and how can facts be an exaggeration?

I am all for more stringent requirements for gun safety but that has nothing to do with exaggerating figures.

Butch

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I didn't say you exaggerated

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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I didn't say you exaggerated

lol... no big thing Bama... BUT YOU DID JUST THAT.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Damn Bama... I listed no sources. When it comes to the children killed and injured you said this was not what you were talking about... you are not making sense... so you misspoke... no big deal.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
the real and better question here is, why do liberals hate guns so much?

Because they represent self reliance, when we should rely totally on the government.

So then, your sense of 'self-reliance' equates to both absolute reliance on corporations, and gun ownership?

Not my or most others' notion of self-reliance, in any sense.

First I never said a word about corporations, and this from a man who brags about running away from problems ("I have been mugged and when that happens I move to another neighborhood).

If you have a link to my ever saying that withinin your quote or anything resembling it, here or anywhere else, please link it. Otherwise shut up.

As for who proposes what about whatever, here's this from your post; "Because they represent self reliance, when we should rely totally on the government."

First, whoever in this thread, OP or otherwise, said anything about "relying totally on government"? The fact that no one on the thread said any such thing didn't stop you, did it?


Just save yourself further embarrassment and shut up.

Lets see, in this case our safety should be in the hands of the police of course you don't use the words I did, it would make it clear how ridiculous you position is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Then how can you be so sure gun ownership is a large enough deterrent to crime with no proof to back it up... at least enough proof to say the proliferation of conceal and carry is worth the carnage of children's loss of life. I am not necessarily against gun ownership but perhaps the type of weapons and where they should be allowed and penalties for carelessness resulting in injury or death may need to be weighed against the hundreds of children killed or injured each year to accidental gun accidents... Is it worth it?

I believe studies should be made by neutral entities to find answers to this question. There may very well be solutions without repealing conceal and carry but this will require new laws and regulations that will not happen without statistics to show a need.

Butch

quote:

Toddler reaches into purse and gun goes off, killing mom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Arizonas regulations for pools found below
36-1681. Pool enclosures; requirements; exceptions; enforcement

A. A swimming pool, or other contained body of water that contains water eighteen inches or more in depth at any point and that is wider than eight feet at any point and is intended for swimming, shall be protected by an enclosure surrounding the pool area, as provided in this section.

B. A swimming pool or other contained body of water required to be enclosed by subsection A whether a belowground or aboveground pool shall meet the following requirements:

1. Be entirely enclosed by at least a five foot wall, fence or other barrier as measured on the exterior side of the wall, fence or barrier.

2. Have no openings in the wall, fence or barrier through which a spherical object four inches in diameter can pass. The horizontal components of any wall, fence or barrier shall be spaced not less than forty-five inches apart measured vertically or shall be placed on the pool side of a wall, fence or barrier which shall not have any opening greater than one and three-quarter inches measured horizontally. Wire mesh or chain link fences shall have a maximum mesh size of one and three-quarter inches measured horizontally.

3. Gates for the enclosure shall:

(a) Be self-closing and self-latching with the latch located at least fifty-four inches above the underlying ground or on the pool side of the gate with a release mechanism at least five inches below the top of the gate and no opening greater than one-half inch within twenty-four inches of the release mechanism or be secured by a padlock or similar device which requires a key, electric opener or integral combination which can have the latch at any height.

(b) Open outward from the pool.

4. The wall, fence or barrier shall not contain openings, handholds or footholds accessible from the exterior side of the enclosure that can be used to climb the wall, fence or barrier.

5. The wall, fence or barrier shall be at least twenty inches from the water's edge.

C. If a residence or living area constitutes part of the enclosure required by subsection B for a swimming pool or other contained body of water in lieu of the requirements of subsection B, there shall be one of the following:

1. Between the swimming pool or other contained body of water and the residence or living area, a minimum four foot wall, fence or barrier to the pool area which meets all of the requirements of subsection B, paragraphs 2 through 5.

2. The pool shall be protected by a motorized safety pool cover which requires the operation of a key switch which meets the American society of testing and materials emergency standards 13-89 and which does not require manual operation other than the use of the key switch.

3. All ground level doors or other doors with direct access to the swimming pool or other contained body of water shall be equipped with a self-latching device which meets the requirements of subsection B, paragraph 3, subdivision (a). Emergency escape or rescue windows from sleeping rooms with access to the swimming pool or other contained body of water shall be equipped with a latching device not less than fifty-four inches above the floor. All other openable dwelling unit or guest room windows with similar access shall be equipped with a screwed in place wire mesh screen, or a keyed lock that prevents opening the window more than four inches, or a latching device located not less than fifty-four inches above the floor.

4. The swimming pool shall be an aboveground swimming pool which has non-climbable exterior sides which are a minimum height of four feet. Any access ladder or steps shall be removable without tools and secured in an inaccessible position with a latching device not less than fifty-four inches above the ground when the pool is not in use.

D. This section does not apply to:

1. A system of sumps, irrigation canals, irrigation, flood control or drainage works constructed or operated for the purpose of storing, delivering, distributing or conveying water.

2. Stock ponds, storage tanks, livestock operations, livestock watering troughs or other structures used in normal agricultural practices.

3. Public or semi-public swimming pools.

4. A swimming pool or contained body of water or barrier constructed prior to the effective date of this article.

5. Political subdivisions which enact a swimming pool barrier ordinance before the effective date of this article.

6. Political subdivisions which adopt ordinances after the effective date of this article provided that the ordinance is equal to or more stringent than the provisions of this article.

7. A residence in which all residents are at least six years of age.

E. A person on entering into an agreement to build a swimming pool or contained body of water or sell, rent or lease a dwelling with a swimming pool or contained body of water shall give the buyer, lessee or renter a notice explaining safety education and responsibilities of pool ownership as approved by the department of health services.

F. A person who violates this section is guilty of a petty offense except that no fine may be imposed if a sufficient showing is made that the person has subsequently equipped the swimming pool or contained body of water with a barrier pursuant to the standards adopted in subsection B within forty-five days of citation and has attended an approved swimming pool safety course.
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/36/01681.htm