Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/3/2015 4:10:21 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
Justice Department to Fault Ferguson Police, Seeing Racial Bias in Traffic Stops

quote:

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department has nearly completed a highly critical report accusing the police in Ferguson, Mo., of making discriminatory traffic stops of African-Americans that created years of racial animosity leading up to an officer’s shooting of a black teenager last summer, law enforcement officials said.

According to several officials who have been briefed on the report’s conclusions, the report criticizes the city for disproportionately ticketing and arresting African-Americans and relying on the fines to balance the city’s budget. The report, which is expected to be released as early as this week, will force Ferguson officials to either negotiate a settlement with the Justice Department or face being sued by it on civil rights charges. Either way, the result is likely to be significant changes inside the Ferguson Police Department, which is at the center of a national debate over race and policing.


This puts new light on the incident in question and confirms what many people suspected about the level of hostility generated by the actions of the police and the local government within the community.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/3/2015 4:50:41 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
No it does not..necessarily... For instance using round figures the DOJ says that because 65 percent of the city is African American and 80 percent of pull overs are of African Americans this MUST be because of racial profiling. But... what if African Americans are not as law abiding as other races in the city? Is this impossible...What if African Americans are more disrespectful and confrontational? What if the majority of the crime reported, by not only white but African Americans as well, are perpetrated by blacks... who would you be more suspicious of as a police officer... who SHOULD you be more suspicious of... I'll tell you... the people committing the majority of crime. Throughout the US, not just Ferguson, this is what is and has been happening for a long time. A relatively small percentage of the population is committing the majority of crime so sensible police reaction would be to concentrate on that part of the population.

That said....If I am a law abiding African American and I am pulled over by police...questioned and searched because of a recent crime in the area committed by a black I would damn well be mad and it is dead wrong.

I think this study does point to the need for change...I just hope they have some answers or suggestions to go along with their condemnation. AND that they realize this is just not Ferguson...or St. Louis ...or LA... or New York...but most every place in the US with a significant African American population. There needs to be social changes to go along with Police training and equipment if there is any chance for this study to mean shit.

I'll tell you what does not work... ignoring who is committing the crime... St. Louis has done just that and had a massive surge in crime because of it... do we want this?... Not in my town... so come on DOJ... lets have something besides dumb ass condemnation without guidance.

Butch

ps... The government IS THE PEOPLE... how can they be in office and be hostile to the voting public???????????

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/3/2015 5:01:26 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/3/2015 5:03:55 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

Disparate impact, yanno. "Structural" racism and all that. What else ya gonna do when ya can't find enough actual racism?

K.













< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/3/2015 5:58:04 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/3/2015 5:14:41 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Kirata I do believe there are just as many, but not more, racists police as there are racists in the general population. I just believe the DOJ...and many here on the boards are making a mistake in blaming the Police when the real issues are social in nature... The problems we are having with police and blacks in this country now is a direct result of these social problems and not law enforcement itself.

Mandating what race can be pulled over when...making police wear cameras... requiring sensitivity training will not solve the problems. Some may be good tools but not anywhere near the answer.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/3/2015 5:21:49 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/3/2015 7:11:17 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

ps... The government IS THE PEOPLE... how can they be in office and be hostile to the voting public???????????

Gawd! Are you really that clueless? Not to mention that bigoted? FYI, small town politics is very much a good-ol'-boy's club and as racist as hell, especially in the Midworst. Ferguson was my home town, and I can testify that everything you hear about them is nothing more than the simple fact. Been there.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/3/2015 8:26:21 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

The Justice Department will issue findings Wednesday that accuse the police department in Ferguson, Mo., of:

(1) racial bias
(2) routinely violating the constitutional rights of black citizens by stopping drivers without reasonable suspicion,
(3) making arrests without probable cause and
(4) using excessive force, officials said.

They sound like a bunch of redneck assholes.

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/3/2015 8:53:04 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
butch, are you saying that these remarks are "okay"?

Seriously? no big deal?
Really?

Justice department finds bias and excessive force in Ferguson

From the above link and on all the major news channels "In a November 2008 email, a city official said Barack Obama would not be president long because “what black man holds a steady job for four years?” Another email included a cartoon depicting African-Americans as monkeys. A third described black women having abortions as a way to curb crime."

Chickens have come home to roost in Ferguson.

< Message edited by Marini -- 3/3/2015 8:57:53 PM >


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/3/2015 9:36:37 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
If they violated the law, don't issue a report (Holder said they were guilty before the report came out so I always figured that the chief cop of the US wouldn't be wrong). File charges. Send the police to jail for their unlawful actions. Along with all the other law brreakers in Furgeson, like those that burned down or stole from business, etc.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/3/2015 9:58:50 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

Looks like the DOJ got it right then, because that's some crude shit. But I agree with Ken. The report shouldn't be used as a bargaining chip. Getting them to shut up and be more careful isn't good enough. The offenders (on both sides) should be prosecuted.

K.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/4/2015 7:20:15 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No it does not..necessarily... For instance using round figures the DOJ says that because 65 percent of the city is African American and 80 percent of pull overs are of African Americans this MUST be because of racial profiling. But... what if African Americans are not as law abiding as other races in the city? Is this impossible...What if African Americans are more disrespectful and confrontational? What if the majority of the crime reported, by not only white but African Americans as well, are perpetrated by blacks... who would you be more suspicious of as a police officer... who SHOULD you be more suspicious of... I'll tell you... the people committing the majority of crime. Throughout the US, not just Ferguson, this is what is and has been happening for a long time. A relatively small percentage of the population is committing the majority of crime so sensible police reaction would be to concentrate on that part of the population.

That said....If I am a law abiding African American and I am pulled over by police...questioned and searched because of a recent crime in the area committed by a black I would damn well be mad and it is dead wrong.

I think this study does point to the need for change...I just hope they have some answers or suggestions to go along with their condemnation. AND that they realize this is just not Ferguson...or St. Louis ...or LA... or New York...but most every place in the US with a significant African American population. There needs to be social changes to go along with Police training and equipment if there is any chance for this study to mean shit.

I'll tell you what does not work... ignoring who is committing the crime... St. Louis has done just that and had a massive surge in crime because of it... do we want this?... Not in my town... so come on DOJ... lets have something besides dumb ass condemnation without guidance.

Butch

ps... The government IS THE PEOPLE... how can they be in office and be hostile to the voting public???????????


I know that we've been over this before, Butch, and even if they were given the benefit of the doubt on the profiling, it still doesn't change the fact that they're still relying on fines from citations to balance the city budget. At the very least, this means that the city leaders are fiscally irresponsible and are trying to make up the difference by handing out frivolous and possibly bogus citations just to gouge the public and pay their inflated salaries. It also undermines the credibility of police agencies which claim that writing citations is not to raise revenue but to promote better public safety. Obviously, they're full of it when they say things like that. It's all a scheme for revenue enhancement, yet the cops refuse to admit it, so that makes them liars, in my opinion.

And to answer your last question, this wouldn't be the first time there has been hostility between the people and their government. How they get elected in the first place is a good question, and it's an equally good question to ask why politicians and public servants are so hostile and disrespectful to their employers.

I think part of the answer has to do with the fact that the system of checks and balances is not strong or effective enough. I think that we have to reach the painful conclusion that "representative democracy" is not strong enough to carry out the people's will and that more democracy is needed to balance the scales in favor of the people. One possibility could be to make the police chief and top police ranks (above sergeant) into elected posts, so that the people have some say over who runs the police department. There could also be an official complaint system where, if a government employee gets complaints from at least three different citizens (regardless of cause), then that government employee is summarily fired from their job. Giving the power back to the people might have the effect of taming government and making them less hostile to the public.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/4/2015 7:51:28 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

Yes, why should there be any fact finding about a public service organization to inform the citizens?

Next, I thought conservatives were against a litigious society of complaints, indictments, trials, etc. Is it not more efficient to bargain one's way into an acceptable settlement of an issue?

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/4/2015 9:02:57 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

butch, are you saying that these remarks are "okay"?


No I do not...but notice no one knows who said them... are you automatically assuming they came from someone of authority in the City government or police department? If these remarks can be attributed to an individual they should be immediately terminated... But I will refuse to condemn a whole City government and police department over two emails that no source is known... how about you....Or should we get out the tar and feathers now?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/4/2015 9:04:44 AM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/4/2015 9:10:45 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

And to answer your last question, this wouldn't be the first time there has been hostility between the people and their government. How they get elected in the first place is a good question, and it's an equally good question to ask why politicians and public servants are so hostile and disrespectful to their employers.


Zonie... the above is impossible if people vote...sorry there is no way around it. It was amazing to me at all the protests over the prosecutor yet months after the Brown incident he ran unopposed so was re-elected.

Now I believe the next election in Ferguson will be very different and if the city government was deemed to have fumbled the fallout from this tragedy they will not be in office.... BUT if they are it is the peoples fault and no one else ... certainly not the Police Department's.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/4/2015 10:07:35 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Before my comments are misconstrued let me just reemphasize that I am waiting for the official release of information before I jump on or off the wagon when it comes to condemning the Ferguson Police Department.

As I have stated in previous posts racial profiling is wrong and needs to be addressed if true. If the purpose of arrests is to fund City Governments rather than to punish crime then this is wrong and needs to be addressed.

In an article in the St. Louis Post today my home town was listed as third in pullovers for traffic offenses in the immediate area. They also have a higher than population proportion of pullovers of blacks... this includes searches and arrests. But if you, as I, talk with the city police they will tell you that more blacks break traffic laws in our town... Most of the time they cannot even tell the color of a persons skin when they are reading a radar gun or seeing a vehicle without plates or running stop signs and etc... they only know the skin color when they pull them over not before.

Now the searches... every pull over results in a search of the driver licence and plates on the computer system... If there is an outstanding warrant the driver will be arrested. Now if you are a policeman and you are MANDATED to make an arrest for an outstanding warrant don't you think a search of the driver and vehicle is necessary for everyone's safety? I sure do... In my town that is how and why searches occur. This means more, in population percentage, of blacks have outstanding warrants... this is the reason... NOT BECAUSE they are black.

I do not know the reasons for the pullovers in Ferguson and I hope the DOJ sorts it out with proof and gives alternatives that the City of Ferguson may want to follow as well as other departments that face the same accusations.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/4/2015 10:19:40 AM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/4/2015 12:04:57 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
The report is out...HERE is the report and when you get there go to page 90 to find... " Changes necessary to remedy Ferguson's unlawful law enforcement practices and repair community trust".

Some make a lot of sense and I hope they are implemented...but some are not tenable I believe... but we will soon see the City's reaction.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/4/2015 12:46:41 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

In an article in the St. Louis Post today my home town was listed as third in pullovers for traffic offenses in the immediate area. They also have a higher than population proportion of pullovers of blacks... this includes searches and arrests. But if you, as I, talk with the city police they will tell you that more blacks break traffic laws in our town... Most of the time they cannot even tell the color of a persons skin when they are reading a radar gun or seeing a vehicle without plates or running stop signs and etc... they only know the skin color when they pull them over not before.


I think it depends on if the pullovers are legit or not.. you know, making something up such as the cop pulls you over saying you were "weaving" when you know you weren't.. I remember reading about some poor (black) guy in Florida that was stopped hundreds of times, he was even arrested at his place of work for trespassing at work!..

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/police-stop-man-258-times-charge-trespassing-work-article-1.1526422

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/4/2015 1:27:05 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
tj if the facts were accurately reported, then this young man should file suit. I wish him well.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/4/2015 6:20:49 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I think it depends on if the pullovers are legit or not.. you know, making something up such as the cop pulls you over saying you were "weaving" when you know you weren't


Well it seems that is exactly what some were doing in Ferguson. They are reporting in our local paper that three people sent the racists emails... One was immediately fired and the other two are under investigation. So a good start.

I am not really sure how much fault is at the feet of the Chief of police but even if he was not aware of the happenings, which I doubt, I cannot see a way the city can move forward with him at the helm. There needs to be a house cleaning and the place disinfected. Personally I don't think the department should be dissolved but I do think every police officer's record needs to be scrutinized closely to see if they are a fit for the new department.

I also think the City needs to emphasize and assure all citizens of Ferguson that law and order will be enforced even if under new leadership and rules. No one will get a pass because of the color of their skin. If you commit crime you will be pursued prosecuted and incarcerated. While at the same time working with community leaders to assure an open department that will at least deserve the trust of all its citizens even if they are not given it... Otherwise it will take time.

Now black citizens of Ferguson... get control of your children that are killing each other at a frightful pace... from now on you will have no one to blame but yourselves.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/4/2015 6:22:26 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/5/2015 5:30:01 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Well it seems that is exactly what some were doing in Ferguson. They are reporting in our local paper that three people sent the racists emails... One was immediately fired and the other two are under investigation. So a good start.

Butch, your comments completely ignore the main trust of the Federal Report. The Ferguson PD deliberately and egregiously targeted the black community as a source of revenue, rewarding cops for being productive. The fish stinks from the head down meaning not just the police chief but the Council as well.

quote:

Now black citizens of Ferguson... get control of your children that are killing each other at a frightful pace... from now on you will have no one to blame but yourselves

Blaming the victims for the racial assault from those who are sworn to 'serve and protect' is reprehensible. I regret having to make so strong an observation but really, let's not turn the malfeasance of the Force back to the victims. Authority and power lie with those vested to protect but instead deliberately were encouraged to abuse. What would you expect the parents to do in the face of a police power run amok and what would you expect from children who grow up in an atmosphere of suspicion and distrust of civil authority. Ferguson is all that is racially ugly about America. It is a Jim Crow city in the 21st Century.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD - 3/5/2015 6:59:43 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Well it seems that is exactly what some were doing in Ferguson. They are reporting in our local paper that three people sent the racists emails... One was immediately fired and the other two are under investigation. So a good start.

Butch, your comments completely ignore the main trust of the Federal Report. The Ferguson PD deliberately and egregiously targeted the black community as a source of revenue, rewarding cops for being productive. The fish stinks from the head down meaning not just the police chief but the Council as well.

quote:

Now black citizens of Ferguson... get control of your children that are killing each other at a frightful pace... from now on you will have no one to blame but yourselves

Blaming the victims for the racial assault from those who are sworn to 'serve and protect' is reprehensible. I regret having to make so strong an observation but really, let's not turn the malfeasance of the Force back to the victims. Authority and power lie with those vested to protect but instead deliberately were encouraged to abuse. What would you expect the parents to do in the face of a police power run amok and what would you expect from children who grow up in an atmosphere of suspicion and distrust of civil authority. Ferguson is all that is racially ugly about America. It is a Jim Crow city in the 21st Century.


Its more than reprehensible Vincent, you are much kinder than I am.


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> DOJ Review Finds Bias in Ferguson PD Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.156