RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone

RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

JVoV -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 1:26:16 PM)
I think it needs to be pointed out that this is about a business owner's personal choices for their business. But what about an employee's personal faith or judgments? Is the holy roller checkout lady's personal faith going to save her job if the company's policy is against such bigotry? I don't think so.

thishereboi -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 1:39:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: hot4bondage Governor Pence, always the jokester, said this law doesn't allow for discrimination and doesn't have anything to do with any contemporary issues. Hilarious, right? But seriously, doesn't this law also apply to politically correct discrimination? For example, there's a nice Jewish deli in downtown Indianapolis. This law seems to provide legal protection if they refuse service to a neo-nazi. Does anyone here think neo-nazis have an inherent right to dine at Jewish delis? I sure don't. And if Jewish delis should have the right to refuse service, shouldn't other businesses have the same right? The only way to avoid dilemmas of the type you have outlined is that business that are open to the public must serve all the public without fear or favour. I hear lots of excuses about why these businesses shouldn't be forced to serve GLBTI people, but oddly I have never heard of one of these businesses refusing service to wife beaters rapists or pedophiles. I find it odd that such people are acceptable to our ever-so-sensitive Xian types but GLBTI people whose only crime is enjoy sex and love in non-het ways are seen as objectionable. It would appear that the religious sensibilities being 'protected' here are extremely selective ones and that these people have taken upon themselves the right to judge others, a right that their religion says is the sole prerogative of their Lord. If it isn't religious beliefs, I wonder what is really being protected here? The only viable candidate is bigotry. I find it odd that you think because you haven't heard of places refusing wife beaters of pedos service that it means "such people are acceptable to our ever-so-sensitive Xian types " Now maybe you have some kind of special power that tells you everything you need to know when you look at someone but unless the asshole in question was on the news most business owners would have no fucking idea that his customer may be one. At least over here they don't wear signs stating "I beat my wife" maybe they do where you come from.

thishereboi -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 1:40:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer FR Xians of a certain (lack of) flavour who feel aggrieved by LGBTs: yet another one for Kirata's 'Permanently Offended' thread! Yup, you are going to get some from all walks of life. no doubt

thishereboi -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 1:46:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV I think it needs to be pointed out that this is about a business owner's personal choices for their business. But what about an employee's personal faith or judgments? Is the holy roller checkout lady's personal faith going to save her job if the company's policy is against such bigotry? I don't think so. I don't think so either. If the employee has a problem serving someone, then it's up to her or him to make sure they find a job somewhere that agrees with their beliefs.

Kirata -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 2:35:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether One giant metaphor for "beating people you don't like up; but the moment they start beating you up, you hide behind your bible and call out for mercy". One would think all Christians would not need such a law, being 'good people', right? These repeated attempts to portray (or dismiss?) me as some kind of Bible-thumping Christian serve only to cement your already repugnant reputation as a serial liar. K.

slvemike4u -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 2:50:26 PM)
That "reputation"is held by a select few though,right ?

BamaD -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 4:01:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV I think it needs to be pointed out that this is about a business owner's personal choices for their business. But what about an employee's personal faith or judgments? Is the holy roller checkout lady's personal faith going to save her job if the company's policy is against such bigotry? I don't think so. Is it her business that goes down the tubes if she ticks off too many people? I don''t think so.

BamaD -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 4:07:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Sorry, missed the point in this brief description of the bill were it said they couldn't serve people because of sexual orientation. Making people do something is tyranny, allowing them to decide for themselves what they will do is not. No, making people do something is not tyranny. Maybe you should look up the word and be more informed.... What this bill allows is religious discrimination of others on the basis of something biological. To use a metaphor, it would be like creating a law that allows white Christians to disallow service to blacks. Because being gay and being black, are two biological issues. Being an asshole Christian is not biological. You should know full well that the point I was making was that letting people make decisions for them selves cannot be described as tyranny. Not giving them choices is tyranny. After calling letting people decide what they want to do tyranny you can't talk about the definition, unless of course there is a special edition of the dictionary for the peoples republic of mass.

dcnovice -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 4:37:19 PM)
FR Interesting read: http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/readers/2015/03/07/indiana-needs-religious-freedom-legislation/24477303/ I am a supporter of gay rights, including same-sex marriage. But as an informed legal scholar, I also support the proposed Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). How can this be? It's because — despite all the rhetoric — the bill has little to do with same-sex marriage and everything to do with religious freedom. The bill would establish a general legal standard, the "compelling interest" test, for evaluating laws and governmental practices that impose substantial burdens on the exercise of religion. This same test already governs federal law under the federal RFRA, which was signed into law by President Bill Clinton. And some 30 states have adopted the same standard, either under state-law RFRAs or as a matter of state constitutional law. Applying this test, a unanimous U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled that a Muslim prisoner was free to practice his faith by wearing a half-inch beard that posed no risk to prison security. Likewise, in a 2012 decision, a court ruled that the Pennsylvania RFRA protected the outreach ministry of a group of Philadelphia churches, ruling that the city could not bar them from feeding homeless individuals in the city parks. I don't know enough to assess the accuracy of his arguments. But it was definitely a perspective-stretching read.

thishereboi -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 5:12:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u That "reputation"is held by a select few though,right ? How many times does one have to tell the same lie before you start questioning anything he says? Or does he get a pass because he sits on the same side of the fence as you do politically?

slvemike4u -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 6:23:33 PM)
So put you down as a member of the select,right ?

BamaD -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 6:39:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV I think it needs to be pointed out that this is about a business owner's personal choices for their business. But what about an employee's personal faith or judgments? Is the holy roller checkout lady's personal faith going to save her job if the company's policy is against such bigotry? I don't think so. At a place were I worked we had someone fired because she told people they couldn't smoke in the store. The owners had the right to declare the place as non-smoking but an employee didn't, your argument shows a complete lack of understanding of how business works, or you are skipping reality in the hopes that some of us are to dumb to know this.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 6:42:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Businesses have the right to refuse service to any person or group, for any reason not specifically mentioned in either the Federal Civil Rights Act or the Americans with Disabilities Act. Until hearts and laws are changed, on a national level, the GLBT community can be freely discriminated against in most states. California is one of few exceptions. None of that changes what I wrote. Look at how far things have progressed in the past couple decades. LGBT-ers are more accepted now than they used to be. To me, that means hearts are changing. No matter what those on the Left might say, race relations have come an awful long way, too. That took a lot of years, a lot of suffering, and a lot of sacrifice, but we've made a lot of progress. Sadly, it's not done, but we'll eventually get there. How many establishments do you think could openly discriminate against a race without feeling a lot of heat from people of all races? I'd even venture to say that those businesses would either close, or see the errors of their ways and stop discriminating. And, that wouldn't even require laws. The LGBT community will continue to be more accepted. Unfortunately, it's not like flipping a switch.

bounty44 -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 6:44:06 PM)
i appreciate your posting that... in part it speaks to my original question to the op of "so you are okay with violating people's religious consciences?"

DesideriScuri -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 6:45:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge This is a fast reply. A long time ago I was listening to a comedian do their act. They said something that is apropos... this is how I remember the quote: There are a bunch of people who are against Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday being a National holiday. You have to be one racist motherfucker not to want a day off of work. As a business owner, you have to be some kind of stupid bigot not to take money from a paying customer. Or, at least, to limit your potential customer base.

slvemike4u -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 6:49:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Businesses have the right to refuse service to any person or group, for any reason not specifically mentioned in either the Federal Civil Rights Act or the Americans with Disabilities Act. Until hearts and laws are changed, on a national level, the GLBT community can be freely discriminated against in most states. California is one of few exceptions. None of that changes what I wrote. Look at how far things have progressed in the past couple decades. LGBT-ers are more accepted now than they used to be. To me, that means hearts are changing. No matter what those on the Left might say, race relations have come an awful long way, too. That took a lot of years, a lot of suffering, and a lot of sacrifice, but we've made a lot of progress. Sadly, it's not done, but we'll eventually get there. How many establishments do you think could openly discriminate against a race without feeling a lot of heat from people of all races? I'd even venture to say that those businesses would either close, or see the errors of their ways and stop discriminating. And, that wouldn't even require laws. The LGBT community will continue to be more accepted. Unfortunately, it's not like flipping a switch. Race needed a lot of legislation help though before hearts and minds sort of caught up. No one in the Civil Rights movement was willing to sit back and wait for hearts and minds...they went through the courts t,the state houses and the Halls of Congress.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 6:59:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Businesses have the right to refuse service to any person or group, for any reason not specifically mentioned in either the Federal Civil Rights Act or the Americans with Disabilities Act. Until hearts and laws are changed, on a national level, the GLBT community can be freely discriminated against in most states. California is one of few exceptions. None of that changes what I wrote. Look at how far things have progressed in the past couple decades. LGBT-ers are more accepted now than they used to be. To me, that means hearts are changing. No matter what those on the Left might say, race relations have come an awful long way, too. That took a lot of years, a lot of suffering, and a lot of sacrifice, but we've made a lot of progress. Sadly, it's not done, but we'll eventually get there. How many establishments do you think could openly discriminate against a race without feeling a lot of heat from people of all races? I'd even venture to say that those businesses would either close, or see the errors of their ways and stop discriminating. And, that wouldn't even require laws. The LGBT community will continue to be more accepted. Unfortunately, it's not like flipping a switch. Race needed a lot of legislation help though before hearts and minds sort of caught up. No one in the Civil Rights movement was willing to sit back and wait for hearts and minds...they went through the courts t,the state houses and the Halls of Congress. Very true, but things like that move a lot faster nowadays. The speed of information is so much faster now than it was 20, 30, even 50 years ago. So, if a business discriminates against one in the LGBT community, that information will spread much faster, and the negative impact on that business will much greater.

epiphiny43 -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 7:02:31 PM)
I'm having trouble distinguishing between the religious 'right' to have the legal protections of a public business but be able to 'enforce' your 'beliefs' on those you choose to serve, vs the extremist Islamic desire to kill all apostates, heretics and infidels. You accept other people's right to have their own religion and non-invasive cultural practices or you don't. Fundamentalists of all faiths can't seem to wait for their deity to judge others. Shouldn't hubris be the 11th commandment? (Reply to thread, not a single post)

dcnovice -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 7:02:55 PM)
FR A mildly entertaining bit of satire: http://conservativefrontline.com/marcus-bachmann-refused-service-in-indiana-store-owner-assumed-he-was-gay/

DesideriScuri -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 7:16:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: epiphiny43 I'm having trouble distinguishing between the religious 'right' to have the legal protections of a public business but be able to 'enforce' your 'beliefs' on those you choose to serve, vs the extremist Islamic desire to kill all apostates, heretics and infidels. You accept other people's right to have their own religion and non-invasive cultural practices or you don't. Fundamentalists of all faiths can't seem to wait for their deity to judge others. Shouldn't hubris be the 11th commandment? (Reply to thread, not a single post) Where are you getting this: "the religious 'right' to have the legal protections of a public business but be able to 'enforce' your 'beliefs' on those you choose to serve?"

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

5.078125E-02