RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (Full Version)

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JVoV -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 8:22:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

This may sound like a dumb question but do you have 'Right of Refusal' laws over there, whereby management or business owners reserve the right to refuse service to anybody ? We have it here but it's usually reserved for drunks and troublemakers but the way the notices are worded, they could equally apply to anybody.


We do, to protect businesses.



Kirata -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 8:24:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Hate crime laws have become necessary for a multitude of reasons.

Throughout the ages, people have always found "reasons" why not everyone should be equal under the law.

It's as if they believed there could be one.

K.




UnholyBear -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 8:27:37 PM)

But everyone is equal, some are just more equal than others.



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 8:28:00 PM)

Thanks JVoV



JVoV -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 8:35:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Hate crime laws have become necessary for a multitude of reasons.

Throughout the ages, people have always found "reasons" why not everyone should be equal under the law.

It's as if they believed there could be one.

K.




Actually, the Federal hate crime law is written to work both ways. If race, religion, or nationality is the motivation behind a crime, the Feds can step in.



dcnovice -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 8:36:08 PM)

FR

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2015/bills/senate/101#

Atop the gray column at left, there's a link to "Latest version."

The heart of it appears to be the following:

Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a governmental
entity may not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion,
even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability.
(b) A governmental entity may substantially burden a person's
exercise of religion only if the governmental entity demonstrates
that application of the burden to the person:
(1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest;
and
(2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling
governmental interest.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 8:39:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Hate crime laws have become necessary for a multitude of reasons.



Yes! In a free society, it is imperative that people are prosecuted for the way they think!



Michael



Lucylastic -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 8:49:29 PM)

If they commit a crime....motive is not important????....of course[8|]
You can think what you want....when you commit a crime because of what you think against a person, or act on your thoughts against a person cos they offend you just by living, yes....hate crime is perfectly legitimate.
YMMV

Edited for clarification and typos



Dvr22999874 -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 8:53:48 PM)

I thought MOST crimes were committed because of what the perpetrator thinks or thought.
They thought they could get away with it.



Lucylastic -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 8:56:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

I thought MOST crimes were committed because of what the perpetrator thinks or thought.
They thought they could get away with it.

well yeah...true



JVoV -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 9:27:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Hate crime laws have become necessary for a multitude of reasons.



Yes! In a free society, it is imperative that people are prosecuted for the way they think!



Michael


There are no laws that can stop anyone from thinking less of people for any reason they decide to.

The Constitution goes further to provide the freedom to vocalize those thoughts, and to put them into writing, although you may be held accountable for doing so by others.

But one man's rights stop where they infringe upon another's. Turning that hate into an act of violence against a person because they don't conform to your bigotted views deserves a longer sentence.



Kirata -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 9:41:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

But one man's rights stop where they infringe upon another's. Turning that hate into an act of violence against a person because they don't conform to your bigotted views deserves a longer sentence.

Well, no. Only if the victim was one of the protected classes. Otherwise, pffffft. Not so bad. Sorry about what happened to your mom, wife, sister. Have a nice day.

K.




JVoV -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 9:46:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

But one man's rights stop where they infringe upon another's. Turning that hate into an act of violence against a person because they don't conform to your bigotted views deserves a longer sentence.

Well, no. Only if the victim was one of the protected classes. Otherwise, pffffft. Not so bad. Sorry about what happened to your mom, wife, sister. Have a nice day.

K.




And this is why I firmly believe in Florida's stand your ground law. Because I'm much better able to protect myself in the moment, than the prosecutors can after the fact.



Kirata -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 9:50:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

And this is why I firmly believe in Florida's stand your ground law...

Uh oh, gun thread in 3.. 2.. 1.. [:D]

K.



JVoV -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 10:06:55 PM)

Nah, at least not from me.

I don't need to wave my NRA card around just cuz some douche doesn't wanna bake my wedding cake.



dcnovice -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/26/2015 10:32:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

But one man's rights stop where they infringe upon another's. Turning that hate into an act of violence against a person because they don't conform to your bigotted views deserves a longer sentence.

Well, no. Only if the victim was one of the protected classes. Otherwise, pffffft. Not so bad. Sorry about what happened to your mom, wife, sister. Have a nice day.

K.



In the cases of "mom, wife, sister," what would prevent cops and prosecutors from doing their jobs as usual?



eulero83 -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 3:15:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Hate crime laws have become necessary for a multitude of reasons.



Yes! In a free society, it is imperative that people are prosecuted for the way they think!



Michael


mens rea is actually very important factor in judging a criminal



eulero83 -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 3:24:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



Well, no. Only if the victim was one of the protected classes. Otherwise, pffffft. Not so bad. Sorry about what happened to your mom, wife, sister. Have a nice day.

K.




I get not being target by lunatics because of your skin religion or political ideas must suck a lot for you...



tweakabelle -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 4:08:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


last thing, and to put it in a way that maybe you haven't asked yourself---so if providing a service to someone is in violation of a business' religious conscience, that's okay?

Perhaps you could be kind enough to explain to me how a business might have a " business' religious conscience". I find the concept difficult to comprehend and even more difficult to imagine in operation. For example:
Do businesses have souls too?
Do they go to heaven if they make enough profit?
Are businesses committing sins if they make a loss?
Do they attend Sunday Church services?



bounty44 -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (3/27/2015 4:32:20 AM)

I had meant actually to put "business person's" as opposed to just "business'" as i was thinking of the recent lawsuit over the bakery owners refusal to make a wedding cake for a gay wedding and being threatened with losing her shirt over it.

but that said---"consciences" in the broad sense don't belong to just individuals and so then aren't dependent on any of the questions you posed. when company policy/practice flow from and are consistent with the owners beliefs of right and wrong (no matter what the beliefs), the company can be figuratively said to have a conscience. or when a group of like minded people want their business practices to reflect their internal sense of right and wrong, that group can be said to be acting with a conscience.

in part, that's the thinking behind the idea of being "good corporate citizens"---that is, expecting businesses to operate with a moral compass as opposed to merely and solely being concerned with their bottom line.

here's an article by a Harvard law prof more or less talking about the same thing:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/12/08/should-business-have-conscience/cK6o6G6dwrWeRJjk1uPVYM/story.html




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