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Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life outside... - 4/28/2015 9:45:01 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
I've posted about this before. But it continues, and it is something I think that leads to dominant women feeling more like fetish objects than women.

In the "getting to know you" phases of online and real life femdom/malesub interactions, I find the same rut occurs: I do all the asking (tell me about your hobbies, what made you laugh today, what do you think about x,y z in the news, etc) -- because getting to know the man behind the sub helps develop chemistry, etc. Plus, we are both people.

The responses are always decent and thorough, but there are rarely questions back. I even can drop hints about things - "oh, having a tough time with a situation at work" or "one of my pets is acting hilarious" -- no response from said sub about "tell me about your pets! When did you get it?" or "work stuff is challenging, happens to me too, did you want to elaborate? I am a good listener."

When it comes to kink of any kind - toys, history, fetishes - the questions do go back and forth. Usually, "Mistress (sic) do you like x?" or if I mentioned a kink, there's a two paragraph elaborated response about it and more follow up questions.

I get it; that's the key to the puzzle, and what makes the wheel turn.

Many times I have ended a courtship (long before I was partnered, and even now, as I pursue outside partners with full consent of my primary) and said there's no chemistry, and when pushed on it, pointed out that he's never asked anything about me as a person. Usually the reasons are:

* I didn't know I was allowed to ask you about your life (yet they can ask about my kink? and - note - there is no 'protocol' in place, these are two people talking)
* I am shy (but not shy enough to ask about my dildos)
* But I did ask you questions! (scours through the 1 - 2 questions for the 20 I asked -- when our exchanges dissolved into a Q&A with him as the subject - he could honestly not know anything about me as a human being, but got a sense things were going swimmingly because of my questions to him).

It is happening again. A lot.

Some say the solution is to TELL the guy to ask questions. But that just makes me feel hollow at the pit of my stomach -- does he REALLY care, or is this a forced exercise just to get to step B? I would think he would WANT to know the dreams, passions, hobbies, what makes me giggle, how my day was, because he has an interest in this woman as a person, especially one he may submit to.

And, it's clear that the more you know about a person's entire psyche, the better equipped you will be to surrender in a way that makes it all click.

I ask a lot of questions of a man because if I develop attraction and want to dominate him, I am dominating him as a man (a whole person), not just an interchangeable "sub".

Subs - why don't you ask more questions -- NON kinky questions -- early in meetings? Do you feel it is your role to stay quiet and that asking questions is rude or invasive? Are you shy?

Femdoms - if you have experienced this, how have you curtailed it without just putting out the hint that "you need to start showing interest in me as a person or this will fizzle" -- in which case, you don't know if the interest is sincere?

Akasha

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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/28/2015 1:45:53 PM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3315
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		In my opinion (sub woman), this isn't a sub man thing. It's a man thing. And for better or worse, they ask about what interests them. Every now and then someone will stand out from the crowd with a more 3 dimensional interest.

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(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/28/2015 2:47:36 PM   
cbttorturelvr


Posts: 1
Joined: 10/23/2004
Status: offline 		There are a lot of factors for me. I would say one thing is the level of intimidation. If I am intimidated by someone I am not going to ask a lot about her vanilla life, and will probably limit what I ask period. The less intimidated I am the more likely I am to ask questions. I would also say that someone I have interaction with real time will make me a lot more likely to try to get to know better if I feel they are open about their vanilla life than someone who is online only or even mostly online. If its someone I feel a connection with I will absolutely try to get to know them better. I would say if someone is dropping hints like your examples I am very like to ask follow up questions unless again I am intimidated.

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/28/2015 3:15:48 PM   
GambitLeBeau


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Lancashire, UK
Status: offline 		So I made a quick reply or 2 on Twitter earlier, but I can add a little more length to it here.

I feel like to some degree it can stem from a mindset in which a sub is meeting you and thinking of you only as a domme. Especially if that's the only side they know of you- it's natural to latch on to topics of shared interest- and perhaps they just haven't tended to hear any of yours it applies to? So they automatically fall back on kink. That said, it's sad but true that if they see you as only a domme, rather than a potential partner, the impetus to know and understand you as a person may not be there- they're likely just glad to find someone who wants to know and get into their head?

I like getting to know people and sharing my nerdy hobbies and interests. But if we were chatting, I'd have very little to add about ice hockey or animal conservation, I guess?

That said, I think there is also an element of shyness- you're probably a lot more used to that sort of meetup situation than them, and allowing you to take the lead on conversation might be easiest for them?

(in reply to cbttorturelvr)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/28/2015 4:32:35 PM   
vodin


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/28/2015
Status: offline 		I have thought about this and I feel I can only answer for myself. My answer may or may not pertain to others, so take it as you will.

While I absolutely loved my time serving you and shopping, ( I still have not been able to go back into VS) I did not ask a lot of questions. Upon reflecting about this I think I know why, at least for me.
First I found your site several years ago and became a member. I read everything you had on there and even followed some of the online trainings. I learned, for the most part what you were into and what you liked.
While I did not learn the deep desires of your inner mind I felt I had a fair handle on you as a person (at least what was displayed in your kinky format).
From that stand point I did not want to pry deeper as to have you toss me aside as a deprived pervert. I am mostly shy and have attended a munch or two but all I did was say hello when I arrived and then sit off to one side just kind of listening to everyone.
I was never able to grow a pair big enough to be able to approach anyone. Even today if you were to attend a party that was at you would find me standing off to the side at parade rest watching just about everything and everyone.
I have actually been mistaken for the bouncer or security at most events that I go to. The few people that really know me describe me as being pretty close to an introvert. Which is why they get me up and out to different events.
Other than my shyness and the feeling that I am just not good enough.
The other reason I don't ask too many questions is that I do have a pretty sharp mind. I am constantly thinking of odd ball things and equations. In order to ask a coherent question I have to slow my thoughts way down and try to formulate and articulate a question.
Normally by this time what ever was being said or discussed has passed and my thoughts would no longer be relevant. Over the years this has taught me to just not ask rather than having to rewind the conversation. Either that or just blurt out whatever comes to my mind and manages to make it passed my lips.
My thoughts are usually so jumbled that without sensor there would be three of four thoughts mixed together to be deciphered. This is probable why I have gravitated to online. I can write some thing and then refine it until it is somewhat intelligent before I send it. (Much like this posting, I am on the 4th rewriting of it and it still rambles.)





(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/28/2015 5:09:41 PM   
FallynAngyl


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/22/2005
Status: offline 		vodin, i feel the same way, i do so much better at conversation via text than i do in person, it allows me to process my thoughts into a better format first :)

(in reply to vodin)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/28/2015 6:09:58 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3226
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		A sub has no idea how to act, until you tell them what you expect. With their ultimate goal of serving & pleasing their Dominant, they need to be instructed and guided early on.

You may want a vanilla conversation. If I wanted all that yapping, I'd watch The View.

(in reply to FallynAngyl)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/28/2015 6:17:28 PM   
MoxieMcfly


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/26/2015
Status: offline 		I think that for many people who are not active in a local bdsm community it comes down to sub frenzy. This might be their only outlet to talk about kink, so they get really excited about it. The vanilla stuff takes a back seat because they can talk to their family, friends, coworkers and the person at the bus stop about it.

(in reply to JVoV)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/28/2015 6:18:36 PM   
dreamlady


Posts: 737
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

In my opinion (sub woman), this isn't a sub man thing. It's a man thing. And for better or worse, they ask about what interests them. Every now and then someone will stand out from the crowd with a more 3 dimensional interest.

No kidding, across the board. The handful who truly want to get to know you (not simply for fact-finding purposes to test whether you a verifiable female), I would calculate that percentage to be 99.5%, when it's for real.

Pretending to show interest in you as a person in an introductory message, around 95%* before dropping precipitously by the 2nd or 3rd message or in-person convo.

Being totally new to the world of kink and needing to have FemDom explained to them in excruciating detail, along with wanting to be trained as if D/s doesn't require a highly individualized approach: 1/3 - 2/5

Ime, percentage of Doms who start off friendly enough, explaining how they took care of the finances and of their ex-wife but would welcome a break in their next relationship from having to shoulder all the responsibility (first couple of messages). . . then quickly start describing all the ways they'd be willing to be dominated in the bedroom: 97-98%, based on insufficient data (haven't dealt with 100 of them yet).

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Femdoms - if you have experienced this, how have you curtailed it without just putting out the hint that "you need to start showing interest in me as a person or this will fizzle" -- in which case, you don't know if the interest is sincere?

To be fair, there would appear to be many male subs who are shy around women in general, and with Dominant women in particular. I've run into a few Doms who started acting romantically shy around me, but I haven't seen for myself or heard whether they behave like this around sub women.

Part of it could be due to not wanting to seem nosy by asking personal questions, or not being sure whether they're "allowed" to act like an *ordinary* man. So many of them put up such a front of wanting to be everything to every Domme that they're afraid to move past the façade they've adopted. This is based on a complete misunderstanding of Dominant women as a whole, and what they have concluded that it is we want in and from a sub, through sheer ignorance and from watching multimedia FemDom porn as it gets churned out. Garbage in, Garbage out.

I did have a promising newbie who managed to show a sustained interest in me as a woman for a few weeks there. After a couple of preliminary issues out of the way that were important to me from the onset, he backed off when I told him that I didn't want to discuss kinks and fetishes anymore and that we should stick to regular vanilla subjects during our getting-to-know-you phase. Normally, a sub can't resist the impulse for more than a few days or longer than a week. I have to give this guy credit for making it for nearly three weeks after I gave him notice, not counting a mini-relapse here and there that required a swift reminder after a very brief explanation or my opinion on the matter.

If he would have stayed the course I had set and paced himself, then I would have wanted to set up a meet & greet already. As it stands, he'll have to start back at square one again in winning me over. He has a few brownie points racked up in his favor that he doesn't know about yet, but he's sharp enough to figure out he was doing something right. In his eagerness, he did start asking me too many personal questions without sharing his info as a segue or door-opener, which is a faux pas for any man to do with a lady, whether he's a sub or not.

So with this sub, Akasha, I'm having a bit of the opposite situation in that I don't want to discourage him from being open with me, and I don't want to stifle him inadvertently. He's not like some of these others who need to get shut down because they've kept their private feelings bottled up and hidden away for so many years, where the pendulum swings the other way into letting it all hang out. . . everywhere, and with just about any Domme who replies to them.

DreamLady

* Of those I haven't automatically ruled out for unsuitability right away


< Message edited by dreamlady -- 4/28/2015 6:31:34 PM >

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/28/2015 7:44:14 PM   
jamieg


Posts: 12
Joined: 9/4/2009
Status: offline 		unfortunately for me i have only had the pleasure of meeting you via the internet and personalized internet/email/skype trainings, and perhaps this post is intended more for submissives you meet in person.

but speaking for myself, it took a very long time for me to become comfortable interacting with you, learning what you would find offensive/objectionable. and perhaps it even took a longer time for me to find out what my own feelings were. i've had submissive feelings my entire life, but i wasn't ever in a position to explore them and share them with another person until i encountered you. until i began know you and myself better, it was much easier to remain subdued, observing but quiet. i suspect that many male submissives finally finding a way to express themselves, react in the same way. and although i can talk with You much more easily these days (and love to!) there is still much respect and awe in my mind when i do that. although certainly not intended, i think that does tend to limit some things i might want to discuss, or how deep i might want to get into them.

but we have had some fun conversations about many things and i am looking forward to many more to come.

jamie

(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/28/2015 8:03:51 PM   
boytoymax


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/28/2015
Status: offline 		Quiet Submissive...

This surprises me. I'm always interested in everything about the Woman I hope to submit to/serve/play with. Perhaps part of it comes from a love of creating elaborate fantasy stories. In my head or written down, and I like to know the details. Besides that I to agree it's nice to get to know the person behind the Dom. Also how else can you give a thoughtful gift if you have nothing to be thoughtful about. For instance the Goddess I am involved with has a pug, loves the color blue, and loves socks. I saw some adorable blue socks that had a pug graphic on them, so it made a wonderful thoughtful gift. It was a gift about knowing her, and not just something I could throw money at. While I'm no starving student, I'm by no means a rich man. That being said it is rare that I have a conversation about nothing but her interests outside of kink. I would love that actually, but it's not a strictly lifestyle relationship. I wouldn't call her a Pro Dom, in that it's not the main focus of her professional life. I could babble for a bit, but the main point is the lines are blurred. I think this can be common when it comes to D/S relationships, especially when they are born online.

To a large degree it's what I like about D/S relationships, We make our own rules. Sometimes it's easy, and sometimes it can be just as complex as in the Vanilla world. We all know in any good D/s relationship there is negotiation. That said it can be hard to get to that open space. Do I ask about everything I normally would? I think the kink conversations flow more naturally, because it's the foot we lead with. When we say D/s relationship, most people think about the sex instead of the power exchange. When I was younger or greener, I admit I was way more curious and talkative about the sex. I didn't even really understand the power exchange, trust, and intimacy that was going on. These days the later is much more important to me than the former, of course I want both.

So let's get a bit on point.

1. What can you do to improve the conversation without feeling like your simply creating a forced activity.

I'm sure with some guys there really is nothing to be done. Move on or simply get what you want from that pretty piece of meat, but unfortunately he's got nothing between the ears. He might also just not be able to get to that place. You've been in this life for a long time, he might be just opening a part of him he didn't know even existed, or had been denying for a long time.
The only thing I can think of is lay out the general guidelines of the sandbox. Just because you will enjoy treating us like an object doesn't mean it isn't better for you if there is the other side to it as well. Remind us that a lot of the parts of a normal relationship apply as well. Just because your going to degrade us doesn't mean you want it to be a 1 dimensional relationship.

Feedback. I love feedback. What can I say, I like a moaner. I don't like it when she holds back. Even if it's just a contented sigh, I'm always in need of feedback. I mean how the hell do I really know if that's what she likes or desires if there is no response. Just like when it comes down to going down on a woman. Without feedback it can be near impossible to figure out what she likes. We can't read minds.. sadly.. It could easily just be talking about a situation where a sub had learned about something about you and that contributed to the scene. Perhaps they still won't get it.


2. Why are you like that Mr. Submissive?
Honestly I don't think I'm like that. Although looking back I think I was. Which brings us to the first possible answer.

This is all so new to me: Part of it was inexperience and the bad ratio you see online. A few female doms, and a sea of submissive men. When your hunting unicorns, you don't beat a loud path. Your slow, methodical, and quiet. You don't know what to do, so interest equates to stay the course. If it ain't broke don't fix it. The conversation seems to be going well, we feel submissive, we think things are going well. We have trouble knowing that the chemistry isn't really there. We don't realize how this wild and crazy world even fits in with normal life. It becomes all about the second life, not how does this become a part of my life. The fantasy takes over the reality and so all the mundane day to day parts are uninteresting to us. We don't understand. We don’t know. The best part can be sensing just by how she's standing, or looking at you that you'd best be on your knees now. She wants to take control and your realization of that without a direct command becomes part of the intimacy that makes the chemistry, that makes it amazing. That reaction will pull you down so hard, and launches her into the stratosphere.. the heat.. well you know. Being able to predict what a woman desires and give it to her is good. Being about to predict her wants are even better. Be able to predict her needs, and your golden.

It would ruin the Mystery: This most certainly isn’t me, but I could see how it would be for some. By learning all about you, the mystery goes away. They see your normal side, they see you as the girl they grew up with. They no longer see you as this mysterious amazing dominant woman who brings them to their knees and turns them into a cock hungry whore ready to be humiliated. I don’t know why it doesn’t have the effect of this: If she can seem like a normal everyday woman, than the normal everyday woman I know from down the street might also enjoy making me clean her feet with my tongue while I wear her used panties…

my two cents.. or a bit more... Hope it helps.
btm

(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/29/2015 3:00:53 AM   
NookieNotes


Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Femdoms - if you have experienced this, how have you curtailed it without just putting out the hint that "you need to start showing interest in me as a person or this will fizzle" -- in which case, you don't know if the interest is sincere?


I have experienced this. Online.

Offline, I do not. Men do not like to sit across from me at a much, in a play party, or on a date and ask me how large a dildo I think I can force up their ass.

*smiles*

So, from my perspective, the primary issue is that the rules for men online seem to be different (to them) than for offline behavior.

I simply give them one chance to get to know me as a person, then I cut them off, with a note about how I din't think we are a good fit, at least based on online conversation. I give them the chance to get past that cut off by saying that if they are ever at one of the regular events I go to, I'd be happy to meet them, otherwise, based on conversation, I don't think we are a match and best of luck to them.

But then, I spend my time online looking for ways to disqualify people (so many, not necessarily local or available), and offline looking for ways to qualify (fewer, local, available, and could fit into my life in a number of ways, as friends or more).

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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/29/2015 6:10:57 AM   
DerangedUnit


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		I never really ask questions about peoples lives one way or the other. I think boxing conversation into a numerical fashion makes it too rigid, I like flow not an organized back and forth reveal. I can tell when people expect me to ask them questions, but it always seems like they expect a yes or no answer and will follow with such. My answers always include numerous topics which the person could branch off into to talk about their interests... im not going to specifically ask what they should be able to discuss without an invitation. I want to branch from one topic to the next, intertwine them as I see fit and trying to slow down to talk to people who can only communicate in a straight line is too difficult. Like trying to teach a dog to 'speak' versus just letting it bark at squirrels.

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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/29/2015 8:09:35 AM   
Chrisp7135


Posts: 23
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline 		Personally, I always inquire about a Domme's outside life.
More often than not, I don't get much info until after I've known them for a good while.
I get the feeling that those types of questions appear like I'm fishing for personal information to identify them rather than learning who they are on the inside.
Because of that, I keep my questions very general, and slowly tease out details like profession, early life, dreams and aspirations, etc.
I'm a believer in that expression: "tell me who you love and I'll tell you who are".

chris

(in reply to DerangedUnit)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/29/2015 8:26:18 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		This is a male thing, for Doms as well.

If someone writes me or even meets me and asks me no questions, I walk away.

I am continually astonished at men's lack of courting ability be it vanilla or kink.

Anyone that shows a lack of curiosity to a woman they are attracted to is either selfish, self centered, lacks finesse or is just lazy.

It truly is not just about you, guys, whatever side of the kneel.

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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/29/2015 10:11:38 AM   
DarlingKisu


Posts: 2
Joined: 4/27/2015
Status: offline 		Personally, I feel like it's rude. I don't really initiate contact, so this person is coming to me and asking questions. I'll ask some within the boundaries laid out based on the questions I was asked, and if more should be shared, I will usually ask, but say something along the lines of, if it's alright to ask... I do feel like personal things should be talked about far before kink. Being compatible is hard enough before through lifestyles and kink into the mix.

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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/29/2015 4:59:47 PM   
lthrpup


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		There is no excuse for being thick or lecherous, but I can sympathize with those who are timid. Getting over the fear of appearing obtrusive or blunt may be symptomatic of guys who are not what might be called fast or smooth operators. I wonder, AAkasha, if your experience includes men generally or especially submissive/fetishist men.

If shyness is a factor, then getting a question out of a man is the first hurdle; each follow up question or comment involves the same anxiety until the conversational ice is broken. It can take a little time. Some patience would help, but it is unreasonable to expect a significant amount from a stranger.

My best online conversations have resulted from focusing on some subject—whether kinky or vanilla. After enough back and forth along those lines, probing questions (in either direction) are less raw and more likely to be asked and answered.

(in reply to DarlingKisu)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/29/2015 7:49:43 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		AAkasha, I never understood that either. I always assume that a straight female Domme and a straight male sub (and for that matter a straight male Domme and a female sub) will be more or less compatible in kink play, and that the huge question is vanilla compatibility. So why not focus on the place where compatibility needs to be determined?

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/30/2015 8:08:39 PM   
FriendlyMuppet


Posts: 171
Joined: 11/16/2010
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Status: offline 		I think it has a lot to do with most submissive men have very little experience with a dominant woman so they automatically assume that woman is alien to them, and they get into a rut of believing they either have to gear their conversations towards kink (the only thing they think they share in common) or they're too nervous to bring up anything and hope she leads the conversation.

In the beginning, I was a lot like this, and I admit it. I'm not now. These days, whenever I go out with a woman, especially in a get to know you atmosphere, I rarely discuss kink or even anything sexual for that matter, unless she brings it up as a part of the conversation, and then I'll let her steer that wherever she wants and keep to asking mostly questions about what interests her, and hopefully what might interest the two of us.

A lot of this has to do with the fact that these days I only pursue intelligent women who seem to have something interesting going on other than just kink. I find it's a lot more interesting to discuss literature, science or even fashion than it is to go on about things I'm pretty sure we're probably already sharing in common (such as kink, which would have attracted us to each other in the first place). Not too long ago, I spent a first encounter with a woman discussing the intimate details of genetics, because she was quite knowledgeable in that area, and I found her conversation concerning the subject to be absolutely fascinating. She knew a lot more about it than I did, and it was great to have such a conversation.

But those kinds of conversations are a rarity, and I treasure them when they do occur.

_____________________________

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The Cell's Door: http://amzn.to/19I6VA1
Forced to Serve: http://amzn.to/108DByv

(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: Subs rarely ask questions about a femdom's life out... - 4/30/2015 10:17:02 PM   
marsneedswomen


Posts: 98
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		I think this is interesting because of there are different approaches I use. If the conversation is a vanilla date I am usually inquisitive and ask questions about their life, day, family, interests and hobbies etc. If it is kinky or fetish conversations, I will usually ask if it is okay to ask personal questions before doing so. I also read the profiles carefully to see if they have boundaries when it comes to such things or if they have vanilla interests listed for an icebreaker to start a conversation. I also think it depends on what each wants and if they are compatible at the time and moment.

Mnw

(in reply to FriendlyMuppet)
Profile   Post #: 20
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