quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We know he used a gun to kill... You can only guess that without one he would have found another way... you or I don't know. But we do know he took their lives with a 45.

Butch

quote:

A series of uncoordinated mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in the People's Republic of China began in March 2010. The spate of attacks left at least 25 dead and some 115 injured. As most cases had no known motive, analysts have blamed mental health problems caused by rapid social change for the rise in these kinds of mass murder and murder-suicide incidents.[1]

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We know he used a gun to kill... You can only guess that without one he would have found another way... you or I don't know. But we do know he took their lives with a 45.

Butch

They found another way at the Boston Marathon.
So we do know that evil will find a way.
Hate and evil are the problems not the tools they use.
This has been proven time and again and fixating on the tools won't stop the hate or the evil.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We know he used a gun to kill... You can only guess that without one he would have found another way... you or I don't know. But we do know he took their lives with a 45.

Butch

They found another way at the Boston Marathon.
So we do know that evil will find a way.
Hate and evil are the problems not the tools they use.
This has been proven time and again and fixating on the tools won't stop the hate or the evil.

Give it a rest Bama. Neither you nor any one else knows what will happen in differing circumstances. Trying to predict what will happen in hypothetical circumstances is at best an educated guess, at worst uninformed speculation and it is always conjecture. Conjecture is not helpful at the moment.

We know that the current weapon of choice by those people in the USA who want to carry out massacres or shooting sprees is a firearm, in this case a handgun.

That is the current situation, the problem at hand. Try focussing on the problem at hand and forget about self serving conjecture.

It seems to me to be very difficult to persuade people that Roof had other options (eg a knife, explosives) that would have suited his purposes as ideally as a handgun or other firearm. Escape from the scene of his horrors seems to have been a priority for him, which would exclude knives (the risk of being overpowered would have been too great). At this point in time, we just don't know if he had explosives training or experience.

Whatever other options were hypothetically available to him, the fact remains that he chose to use a firearm. That psychos like him apparently have ready access to firearms is therefore a significant if not crucial part of the problem at hand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We know he used a gun to kill... You can only guess that without one he would have found another way... you or I don't know. But we do know he took their lives with a 45.

Butch

They found another way at the Boston Marathon.
So we do know that evil will find a way.
Hate and evil are the problems not the tools they use.
This has been proven time and again and fixating on the tools won't stop the hate or the evil.

Give it a rest Bama. Neither you nor any one else knows what will happen in differing circumstances. Trying to predict what will happen in hypothetical circumstances is at best an educated guess, at worst uninformed speculation and it is always conjecture. Conjecture is not helpful at the moment.

We know that the current weapon of choice by those people in the USA who want to carry out massacres or shooting sprees is a firearm, in this case a handgun.

That is the current situation, the problem at hand. Try focussing on the problem at hand and forget about self serving conjecture.

It seems to me to be very difficult to persuade people that Roof had other options (eg a knife, explosives) that would have suited his purposes as ideally as a handgun or other firearm. Escape from the scene of his horrors seems to have been a priority for him, which would exclude knives (the risk of being overpowered would have been too great). At this point in time, we just don't know if he had explosives training or experience.

Whatever other options were hypothetically available to him, the fact remains that he chose to use a firearm. That psychos like him apparently have ready access to firearms is therefore a significant if not crucial part of the problem at hand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Westboro Baptist Church Blames Charleston Shooting On Hillary Clinton, Threatens To Picket Victims’ Funerals

http://www.ibtimes.com/westboro-baptist-church-blames-charleston-shooting-hillary-clinton-threatens-picket-1973484

I never have words for tragedies like this. I hate that anyone would push a political agenda while families are still grieving.

Though I'm not a violent person, I believe protesters at the funeral of a loved one would be more than I could process.

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We know he used a gun to kill... You can only guess that without one he would have found another way... you or I don't know. But we do know he took their lives with a 45.

Butch

They found another way at the Boston Marathon.
So we do know that evil will find a way.
Hate and evil are the problems not the tools they use.
This has been proven time and again and fixating on the tools won't stop the hate or the evil.

Give it a rest Bama. Neither you nor any one else knows what will happen in differing circumstances. Trying to predict what will happen in hypothetical circumstances is at best an educated guess, at worst uninformed speculation and it is always conjecture. Conjecture is not helpful at the moment.

We know that the current weapon of choice by those people in the USA who want to carry out massacres or shooting sprees is a firearm, in this case a handgun.

That is the current situation, the problem at hand. Try focussing on the problem at hand and forget about self serving conjecture.

It seems to me to be very difficult to persuade people that Roof had other options (eg a knife, explosives) that would have suited his purposes as ideally as a handgun or other firearm. Escape from the scene of his horrors seems to have been a priority for him, which would exclude knives (the risk of being overpowered would have been too great). At this point in time, we just don't know if he had explosives training or experience.

Whatever other options were hypothetically available to him, the fact remains that he chose to use a firearm. That psychos like him apparently have ready access to firearms is therefore a significant if not crucial part of the problem at hand.

Was the gun purchased legally? Did Roof have a concealed weapons permit? Was it his gun?

How many of the victims would be alive if even one was armed? Or if the family would have sought mental health help for Roof at some point?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Give it a rest Bama. Neither you nor any one else knows what will happen in differing circumstances. Trying to predict what will happen in hypothetical circumstances is at best an educated guess, at worst uninformed speculation and it is always conjecture. Conjecture is not helpful at the moment.

We know that the current weapon of choice by those people in the USA who want to carry out massacres or shooting sprees is a firearm, in this case a handgun.

That is the current situation, the problem at hand. Try focussing on the problem at hand and forget about self serving conjecture.

It seems to me to be very difficult to persuade people that Roof had other options (eg a knife, explosives) that would have suited his purposes as ideally as a handgun or other firearm. Escape from the scene of his horrors seems to have been a priority for him, which would exclude knives (the risk of being overpowered would have been too great). At this point in time, we just don't know if he had explosives training or experience.

Whatever other options were hypothetically available to him, the fact remains that he chose to use a firearm. That psychos like him apparently have ready access to firearms is therefore a significant if not crucial part of the problem at hand.

And yet you feel free to make conjectures that evil people will cease to do evil things if you just get rid of the tool they used this time. I guess you believe that if they had banned pressure cookers afier the Boston attack that there would never be another bombing.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Give it a rest Bama. Neither you nor any one else knows what will happen in differing circumstances. Trying to predict what will happen in hypothetical circumstances is at best an educated guess, at worst uninformed speculation and it is always conjecture. Conjecture is not helpful at the moment.

We know that the current weapon of choice by those people in the USA who want to carry out massacres or shooting sprees is a firearm, in this case a handgun.

That is the current situation, the problem at hand. Try focussing on the problem at hand and forget about self serving conjecture.

It seems to me to be very difficult to persuade people that Roof had other options (eg a knife, explosives) that would have suited his purposes as ideally as a handgun or other firearm. Escape from the scene of his horrors seems to have been a priority for him, which would exclude knives (the risk of being overpowered would have been too great). At this point in time, we just don't know if he had explosives training or experience.

Whatever other options were hypothetically available to him, the fact remains that he chose to use a firearm. That psychos like him apparently have ready access to firearms is therefore a significant if not crucial part of the problem at hand.

And yet you feel free to make conjectures that evil people will cease to do evil things if you just get rid of the tool they used this time. I guess you believe that if they had banned pressure cookers afier the Boston attack that there would never be another bombing.

I have no idea where you got that interpretation of my post from. There's nothing in my text that remotely resembles your interpretation. I made no conjecture about anyone evil or otherwise. I suggest you re-read my post and take note of what it actually says, not what you imagine it says.

In my post I pointed out that Roof chose to use a firearm, that a firearm seems ideal for his evil purposes, and that firearms are the weapon of choice in the US for this type of horrible incident - all of which are verifiable facts.

On that basis I concluded that the apparently easy access that psychos have to firearms must be a significant part of the problem. That's all I said.

Are you actually disputing this conclusion? Do you deny that the apparently easy access to firearms by psychos is a significant part of the problem at hand? If you are actually denying this, what in your view is the problem at hand?

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

I agree with charging the father as well. Accessory to murder seems reasonable, for providing the gun used.

Ehh.. maybe not. Seems Roof hadn't been convicted of a felony yet. He was out on bond for drug charges, awaiting trial. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof.html

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Do you deny that the apparently easy access to firearms by psychos is a significant part of the problem at hand? If you are actually denying this, what in your view is the problem at hand?

The problem at hand is the evil in this mans heart. He could not legally buy a firearm, our laws would have prevented that. His father refused to see the sickness in his soul and circumvented the law to get him a firearm. As proven in Boston the lack of firearms doesn't stop evil, they made bombs from pressure cookers. France has far tougher gun laws than we do. didn't slow down the Charlie Hebdo attack did it. Norway had a worse incident than anything that has happened in the US except for 9/11 and OK city, in case you are unaware of it neither of them used firearms. Do you really want these people to go over to bombs? As I pointed out earlier a Molotov cocktail is very easy to make and just as lethal. Of course if you think that the gun exercised it's will over the man you can dismiss this but otherwise you have to see that he should have gotten treatment long ago and the failure to do so is a major part of the problem. He and his father ignored our gun laws, not to mention laws against things like murder so there is no reason, except a devotion to a political agenda, to think he wouldn't have found another means to perform his evil act.

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Do you really want these people to go over to bombs?

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


. What person (a father, even [supposedly]) gives a 21 year old child with a drug issue a .45 for their birthday. This kid's father should ABSO-FUCKIN'-LUTELY be charged as an accessory, if not with depraved indifference (if it can be shown that the kid got his racist views from his father).



Michael

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
If this nutbag hasn't done anything else, nor planned to do anything else, this shooting can still not be an "isolated incident." If this was a racially motivated offense, it's not isolated from other recent racially motivated offenses.
Would you consider the 9/11 attacks as "isolated incidents" because Mohammed Atta hadn't killed anyone prior, and wasn't planning on anything afterwards? Or, were the attacks not isolated from other terrorist attacks on the US?

They caught him three hours away
http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2015/06/18/gunman-kills-9-at-historically-black-church-during-bible-study/
When they say "isolated" what is meant is not part of a group
Atta was definitely part of a group. A world wide group, that is still committing atrocities

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA
Wait for the spin Peon. As Eric Holder says, never waste a good crisis. But the answer to your question is, we've seen this sort of thing before and know how it will play out. Yes, that is what you on the left do.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Was the gun purchased legally? Did Roof have a concealed weapons permit? Was it his gun?
How many of the victims would be alive if even one was armed? Or if the family would have sought mental health help for Roof at some point?

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

No. When the phrase is "isolated act," it's not referring to the person committing the acts, but the act itself. A lone gunman can still commit acts that aren't isolated, if they're part of a pattern of acts. I think it's established that he's a lone gunman.

CloudBoy's (and I rarely defend his statements) statement was that it wasn't an "isolated incident," but rather just another incident in a pattern of either "terrorism or racism."

We will have to wait to see how this all shakes out, and, hopefully, find out why this guy acted in such an evil manner.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Was the gun purchased legally? Did Roof have a concealed weapons permit? Was it his gun?
How many of the victims would be alive if even one was armed? Or if the family would have sought mental health help for Roof at some point?

A couple articles:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/charleston-shooting-gunman-allegedly-survivor-inside-church/story?id=31872085

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/19/survivors-charleston-church-shooting-played-dead-friends-say/

It's not clear how he got the gun. It's been reported that he received it as a gift, but Roof's roommate claims Roof took birthday money and bought it himself.

If the claims of the survivors are accurate, these definitely were racially motivated murders.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There seems to be a consensus that this was a hate crime. So one question that needs to asked is: Where did this killer get all that hate from? He wasn't born with it. No one is born a racist. He learnt it from some part of the culture around him. So establishing precisely how and where he acquired his racist hate, and taking steps to eradicate the source of his hate seems an obvious step to me.