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Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 5:19:55 AM   
Kirata


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A new model of the Sun’s solar cycle is producing unprecedentedly accurate predictions of irregularities within the Sun’s 11-year heartbeat. The model draws on dynamo effects in two layers of the Sun, one close to the surface and one deep within its convection zone. Predictions from the model suggest that solar activity will fall by 60 per cent during the 2030s to conditions last seen during the ‘mini ice age’ that began in 1645. Results will be presented today by Prof Valentina Zharkova at the National Astronomy Meeting in Llandudno....

"We found magnetic wave components appearing in pairs, originating in two different layers in the Sun’s interior. They both have a frequency of approximately 11 years, although this frequency is slightly different, and they are offset in time. Over the cycle, the waves fluctuate between the northern and southern hemispheres of the Sun. Combining both waves together and comparing to real data for the current solar cycle, we found that our predictions showed an accuracy of 97%," said Zharkova....

Looking ahead to the next solar cycles, the model predicts that the pair of waves become increasingly offset during Cycle 25, which peaks in 2022. During Cycle 26, which covers the decade from 2030-2040, the two waves will become exactly out of synch and this will cause a significant reduction in solar activity. "In cycle 26, the two waves exactly mirror each other – peaking at the same time but in opposite hemispheres of the Sun. Their interaction will be disruptive, or they will nearly cancel each other. We predict that this will lead to the properties of a 'Maunder minimum'," said Zharkova


Source: Royal Astronomical Society

K.
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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 5:26:24 AM   
MercTech


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Yes, they understand the mechanics of how the solar strata produce the Maunder Minimum that has been documented for over a thousand years.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 6:50:52 AM   
Tkman117


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In more interesting news, turns out emails have surfaced that suggest Exxon knew about climate change way back in the 80s and not only ignored their own findings, but actively fought it, not so surprising really.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/08/exxon-climate-change-1981-climate-denier-funding

(in reply to MercTech)
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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 7:30:12 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

In more interesting news, turns out emails have surfaced that suggest Exxon knew about climate change way back in the 80s and not only ignored their own findings, but actively fought it, not so surprising really.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/08/exxon-climate-change-1981-climate-denier-funding


Probably because (as MercTech alluded to) everyone knows about the coming Maunder Minimum.

So... The guys at Exxon are heroes. Not only were they trying to insure that the poor and the elderly and children and minorities (all of the most vulnerable among us) enjoy the myriad benefits of affordable energy now, but they may also now stay warm through the coming mini ice age

Thanks to Exxon



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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 7:43:00 AM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

In more interesting news, turns out emails have surfaced that suggest Exxon knew about climate change way back in the 80s and not only ignored their own findings, but actively fought it, not so surprising really.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/08/exxon-climate-change-1981-climate-denier-funding


Probably because (as MercTech alluded to) everyone knows about the coming Maunder Minimum.

So... The guys at Exxon are heroes. Not only were they trying to insure that the poor and the elderly and children and minorities (all of the most vulnerable among us) enjoy the myriad benefits of affordable energy now, but they may also now stay warm through the coming mini ice age

Thanks to Exxon





Should read...

Not only were they trying to insure that the poor and the elderly and minorities (all of the most vulnerable among us) continue to have to pay hugely manipulated and excessive rates to Exxon for energy, but they will be forced to do so to a greater extreme through my imagined coming min ice age

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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 8:00:59 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Yes, they understand the mechanics of how the solar strata produce the Maunder Minimum that has been documented for over a thousand years.

Well that's pretty amazing. How about you show us something from around 1015 AD or so?

K.

(in reply to MercTech)
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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 8:03:46 AM   
Real0ne


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thats why we are forced to drive cars that are only 40% efficient at best that in class one cities spend most of their time burning up fuel just sitting in traffic jams instead of something alonf the lines of a stirling/electro hybrid running upwards of 85% and better designed traffic light switching etc.

Oh and now they raised the speed limit back up to 70 so we suck yet more fuel in our suvs and hummers.

Same with lights, everyone went to florescent and they simply raised to price to reward us for saving energy to insure wall street happiness.

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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 8:12:57 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Should read...

Not only were they trying to insure that the poor and the elderly and minorities (all of the most vulnerable among us) continue to have to pay hugely manipulated and excessive rates to Exxon for energy, but they will be forced to do so to a greater extreme through my imagined coming min ice age


Exactly the opposite

Global Warming fundamentalists want to tax energy and keep their boots on the throats of the energy sector to the point that it is unfordable and everyone suffers

When green fanatics (socialists) force energy prices up, manufacturing costs surge. The costs associates with transporting goods to markets go up, the cost for keeping goods in climate controlled warehouses go up. Domestic costs for everything increases and we become less competitive with other nations and the economy as a whole suffers

All prices are affected negatively, for everyone

With the poor, the elderly, women, children and minorities hardest hit by these socialist policies (as always)

Obama and his crew are on record having said outright that they prefer higher energy costs. What is Tikimans rant against Exxon about, if not forcing energy costs up

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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 8:34:08 AM   
KenDckey


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Sanity I think a lot of them want us to go back to draft animals, etc. Course they will want us to get rid of them cause of the methane release, and then PITA will balk, and it goes on and on and on.

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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 2:51:57 PM   
bounty44


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if I am reading this rightly, should I be storing up wood for 15 yrs from now?

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 3:34:15 PM   
MercTech


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

In more interesting news, turns out emails have surfaced that suggest Exxon knew about climate change way back in the 80s and not only ignored their own findings, but actively fought it, not so surprising really.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/08/exxon-climate-change-1981-climate-denier-funding


Probably because (as MercTech alluded to) everyone knows about the coming Maunder Minimum.

So... The guys at Exxon are heroes. Not only were they trying to insure that the poor and the elderly and children and minorities (all of the most vulnerable among us) enjoy the myriad benefits of affordable energy now, but they may also now stay warm through the coming mini ice age

Thanks to Exxon





More like you will know about the Maunder Minimum if you hang out with some HAM radio guys, have studied radio theory in school, or read science fiction with some radio transmission science included for seasoning.

I didn't mean to come off as an arrogant pedant but just made the point that it was not a new discovery but having a more detailed understanding of a well known phenomenon among those who deal with radio transmission routinely.

Expected effects of lowered solar activity include thinner ozone layer and widening of the holes in the ozone at the poles, more difficulty with long range atmospheric bounce communication (not as much of a problem as it was before satellite, cell, and internet).

www.spaceweather.com has a more technical explanation for those that like the grubby details.

< Message edited by MercTech -- 7/12/2015 4:00:48 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/12/2015 9:28:24 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Should read...

Not only were they trying to insure that the poor and the elderly and minorities (all of the most vulnerable among us) continue to have to pay hugely manipulated and excessive rates to Exxon for energy, but they will be forced to do so to a greater extreme through my imagined coming min ice age


Exactly the opposite

Global Warming fundamentalists want to tax energy and keep their boots on the throats of the energy sector to the point that it is unfordable and everyone suffers

When green fanatics (socialists) force energy prices up, manufacturing costs surge. The costs associates with transporting goods to markets go up, the cost for keeping goods in climate controlled warehouses go up. Domestic costs for everything increases and we become less competitive with other nations and the economy as a whole suffers

All prices are affected negatively, for everyone

With the poor, the elderly, women, children and minorities hardest hit by these socialist policies (as always)

Obama and his crew are on record having said outright that they prefer higher energy costs. What is Tikimans rant against Exxon about, if not forcing energy costs up

Seems when it's profits at say $120/bbl. or when it comes to direct govt. subsidies to the oil cos....nobody gives a flying fuck about the poor.

Seems when it comes to regulating (limiting) solar rooftops and their ability to reduce fossil fuel elec. consumption, nobody gives a shit about the poor, women and children. (Buffet & the Koch bros.)

The only 'care' the capitalist has for the poor, the women and the children, is how much of a profit center they are or, their parents, charities or the govt. can help them be.

I mean come on kinkroids, you've got to know...all of that snow in Mass. last winter and the flooding going on now, is a vast left-wing conspiracy.

Look, there are countless Billion$ in profits to be made off burning carbon, so fuck the world and get over it. [They] ARE going to burn the fucking carbon.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/13/2015 12:46:31 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Seems when it's profits at say $120/bbl. or when it comes to direct govt. subsidies to the oil cos....nobody gives a flying fuck about the poor.
Seems when it comes to regulating (limiting) solar rooftops and their ability to reduce fossil fuel elec. consumption, nobody gives a shit about the poor, women and children. (Buffet & the Koch bros.)
The only 'care' the capitalist has for the poor, the women and the children, is how much of a profit center they are or, their parents, charities or the govt. can help them be.
I mean come on kinkroids, you've got to know...all of that snow in Mass. last winter and the flooding going on now, is a vast left-wing conspiracy.
Look, there are countless Billion$ in profits to be made off burning carbon, so fuck the world and get over it. [They] ARE going to burn the fucking carbon.


Tax cuts are not subsidies.

Where are solar rooftop installations being limited by regulation?


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  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/13/2015 1:01:57 AM   
thursdays


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[Apologies - reposted below]

< Message edited by thursdays -- 7/13/2015 1:02:56 AM >


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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/13/2015 1:03:35 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Seems when it's profits at say $120/bbl. or when it comes to direct govt. subsidies to the oil cos....nobody gives a flying fuck about the poor.
Seems when it comes to regulating (limiting) solar rooftops and their ability to reduce fossil fuel elec. consumption, nobody gives a shit about the poor, women and children. (Buffet & the Koch bros.)
The only 'care' the capitalist has for the poor, the women and the children, is how much of a profit center they are or, their parents, charities or the govt. can help them be.
I mean come on kinkroids, you've got to know...all of that snow in Mass. last winter and the flooding going on now, is a vast left-wing conspiracy.
Look, there are countless Billion$ in profits to be made off burning carbon, so fuck the world and get over it. [They] ARE going to burn the fucking carbon.


Tax cuts are not subsidies.


That's a fair comment if you're talking about tax cuts generally, but any tax relief that is granted to one part of a sector over another is a subisidy.



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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/13/2015 2:42:03 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


A new model of the Sun’s solar cycle is producing unprecedentedly accurate predictions of irregularities within the Sun’s 11-year heartbeat. The model draws on dynamo effects in two layers of the Sun, one close to the surface and one deep within its convection zone. Predictions from the model suggest that solar activity will fall by 60 per cent during the 2030s to conditions last seen during the ‘mini ice age’ that began in 1645. Results will be presented today by Prof Valentina Zharkova at the National Astronomy Meeting in Llandudno....

"We found magnetic wave components appearing in pairs, originating in two different layers in the Sun’s interior. They both have a frequency of approximately 11 years, although this frequency is slightly different, and they are offset in time. Over the cycle, the waves fluctuate between the northern and southern hemispheres of the Sun. Combining both waves together and comparing to real data for the current solar cycle, we found that our predictions showed an accuracy of 97%," said Zharkova....

Looking ahead to the next solar cycles, the model predicts that the pair of waves become increasingly offset during Cycle 25, which peaks in 2022. During Cycle 26, which covers the decade from 2030-2040, the two waves will become exactly out of synch and this will cause a significant reduction in solar activity. "In cycle 26, the two waves exactly mirror each other – peaking at the same time but in opposite hemispheres of the Sun. Their interaction will be disruptive, or they will nearly cancel each other. We predict that this will lead to the properties of a 'Maunder minimum'," said Zharkova


Source: Royal Astronomical Society

K.



Good, now explain all of that to us....

No cut/paste jobs, no web links. Your words only.


(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/13/2015 2:47:24 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Sanity I think a lot of them want us to go back to draft animals, etc. Course they will want us to get rid of them cause of the methane release, and then PITA will balk, and it goes on and on and on.


The simple understanding to the scientific theory. Trust me when I say things get much more complicated and complex than you will ever understand. Why should you or most of the conservatives/libertarians in this nation care? You'll be dead in about 10 to 20 years....

...still trying to find that moral justification to be a selfish asshole! And failing!

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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/13/2015 2:58:59 AM   
PeonForHer


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FR

I can't see how this relates to global warming. From what I can make out, this will create a blip - something of a freeze over the space of a few years. Global warming is about the long term trend. I can't see anything for climate-denying extremists to get excited about here.

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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/13/2015 3:50:40 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

A new model of the Sun’s solar cycle is producing unprecedentedly accurate predictions of irregularities within the Sun’s 11-year heartbeat. The model draws on dynamo effects in two layers of the Sun, one close to the surface and one deep within its convection zone. Predictions from the model suggest that solar activity will fall by 60 per cent during the 2030s to conditions last seen during the ‘mini ice age’ that began in 1645. Results will be presented today by Prof Valentina Zharkova at the National Astronomy Meeting in Llandudno....

"We found magnetic wave components appearing in pairs, originating in two different layers in the Sun’s interior. They both have a frequency of approximately 11 years, although this frequency is slightly different, and they are offset in time. Over the cycle, the waves fluctuate between the northern and southern hemispheres of the Sun. Combining both waves together and comparing to real data for the current solar cycle, we found that our predictions showed an accuracy of 97%," said Zharkova....

Looking ahead to the next solar cycles, the model predicts that the pair of waves become increasingly offset during Cycle 25, which peaks in 2022. During Cycle 26, which covers the decade from 2030-2040, the two waves will become exactly out of synch and this will cause a significant reduction in solar activity. "In cycle 26, the two waves exactly mirror each other – peaking at the same time but in opposite hemispheres of the Sun. Their interaction will be disruptive, or they will nearly cancel each other. We predict that this will lead to the properties of a 'Maunder minimum'," said Zharkova


Source: Royal Astronomical Society

Good, now explain all of that to us....

We have known since at least 2005, the date of publication of the following study which appeared in the journal of the Italian Astronomical Society, that solar output is closely related to terrestrial global temperature variations, and please note that I didn't say anything about solar irradiance, sunspot numbers, or variations in the solar-wind, all of which, taken individually, have proven problematic as indicators.

From the Abstract:

We show that the index commonly used for quantifying long-term changes in solar activity, the sunspot number, accounts for only one part of solar activity and using this index leads to the underestimation of the role of solar activity in the global warming in the recent decades. A more suitable index is the geomagnetic activity which reflects all solar activity, and it is highly correlated to global temperature variations in the whole period for which we have data.



In Figure 6 the long-term variations in global temperature are compared to the long-term variations in geo-magnetic activity as expressed by the ak-index (Nevanlinna and Kataja 2003). The correlation between the two quantities is 0.85 with p<0.01 for the whole period studied.

But until now we have been unable to model these changes, and thus have had no way to predict them. From the original link:

It is 172 years since a scientist first spotted that the Sun’s activity varies over a cycle lasting around 10 to 12 years. But every cycle is a little different and none of the models of causes to date have fully explained fluctuations. Many solar physicists have put the cause of the solar cycle down to a dynamo caused by convecting fluid deep within the Sun. Now, Zharkova and her colleagues have found that adding a second dynamo, close to the surface, completes the picture with surprising accuracy.

With this newly discovered model delivering 97% accurate predictions, we are finally in a position to say with a high degree of scientific rigor that "Global Warming" in the coming decades is going to be cold.

Thanks for asking.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/13/2015 4:02:04 AM >

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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/13/2015 4:15:22 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I can't see how this relates to global warming. From what I can make out, this will create a blip - something of a freeze over the space of a few years. Global warming is about the long term trend. I can't see anything for climate-denying extremists to get excited about here.

Given that global temperatures haven't change much for about 20 years now, that we are only just starting the slide down into Cycle 26, and that it will take at least another decade beyond just to start climbing back out of it, it seems to me that the "denying" going on here is calling that a "blip" of a "few years".

But I admire your faith.

K.



(in reply to PeonForHer)
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