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RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 10:41:07 AM   
crazyml


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Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Socialists desire for power






Classic drooling mouth breather tactic.

Just call the scientists that disagree with you (even if it's the vast majority of scientists) "socialist" (even if you're too fucking clueless to have the vaguest notion of what that term actually means) and "hey presto".

Fuck me, how many keyboards do you destroy each week with your drool?




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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 10:42:40 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Classic drooling mouth breather tactic.

Just call the scientists that disagree with you (even if it's the vast majority of scientists) "socialist" (even if you're too fucking clueless to have the vaguest notion of what that term actually means) and "hey presto".

Fuck me, how many keyboards do you destroy each week with your drool?



The thing that tells the tale that needs to be told here is how leftists routinely have to rely on ad homimens and other debate fallacies to defend their positions

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 10:52:19 AM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

Whats "compelling" is how wrong our high preists of "doom-and-gloom, end of the world as we know it" have always been


How has it been wrong? The world continues to warm... this is a fact... The oceans are rising... some island countries will soon be no more. I do admit it is very speculative over a short period of time to forecast the future past next week. I don't believe there has been a consensus on a time table of the future consequences of global warming. But the best evidence we have today is saying there is a good chance that in the future there could be a problem that could be disastrous for our grandchildren.

I would rather be safe than sorry and do my best to assure the prosperous future of my children and grandchildren... How important is this to you? I am not saying bankrupt our economy today but I am saying we may have to make sacrifices in the future and we should be open to this and the scientific evidence that supports it.

Butch


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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 10:55:57 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Whats "compelling" is how wrong our high preists of "doom-and-gloom, end of the world as we know it" have always been


How has it been wrong? The world continues to warm... this is a fact... The oceans are rising... some island countries will soon be no more. I do admit it is very speculative over a short period of time to forecast the future past next week. I don't believe there has been a consensus on a time table of the future consequences of global warming. But the best evidence we have today is saying there is a good chance that in the future there could be a problem that could be disastrous for our grandchildren.

I would rather be safe than sorry and do my best to assure the prosperous future of my children and grandchildren... How important is this to you? I am not saying bankrupt our economy today but I am saying we may have to make sacrifices in the future and we should be open to this and the scientific evidence that supports it.

Butch



Damn, Butch, WTF

Click on the links I provide.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 11:07:11 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I did... I always do... like I said there was no consensus... there are some groups... out of our control... there are some individuals expressing their estimates... how do you know they were or are not right? Just because a right wing site say they are not is not proof.

There is no concrete proof of what will happen in the future. But there is enough evidence that we should be taking the possibilities seriously. Denying the warming of the atmosphere at the hands of man may be right...but makes little difference in the long run. If the results of warming, which are well documented, can be mitigated by man then we should think about doing it.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 11:21:41 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

If you think the Theory of Climate Change is all bullshit, explain to me how the whole of the Internet operates scientifically.

You've gone off your medication again, haven't you.

K.



Ah come on Kirata, it is okay to tell him that it is ones and zeros.

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I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 11:30:32 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
You keep suggesting that the data doesnt lie...

Perhaps not, but the global warming faithful who manipulate that data do lie

Embarrassing Predictions Haunt the Global-Warming Industry

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 12:09:21 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

do scientists know what they are talking about or not?

When it comes to the predicting the climate, that's a very good question.

Most of the climate models...now project that average global temperatures will rise somewhere from 3 to 8 degrees Fahrenheit toward the middle of next century.... A range as high as 14.4 degrees and 18 degrees cannot be ruled out.
~New York Times, January 17, 1989

Using computer models, researchers concluded that global warming would raise average annual temperatures nationwide two degrees by 2010.
~Associated Press, May 15, 1989

Children just aren't going to know what snow is.
~Dr. David Viner, senior research scientist, climatic research unit, University of East Anglia, March 20, 2000

The Arctic Ocean could be free of ice in the summer as soon as 2010 or 2015 - something that hasn't happened for more than a million years, according to a leading polar researcher. Louis Fortier, scientific director of ArcticNet, a Canadian research network, said the sea ice is melting faster than predicted by models created by international teams of scientists, such as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)... "The frightening models we didn't even dare to talk about before are now proving to be true," Fortier told CanWest News Service... According to these models, there will be no sea ice left in the summer in the Arctic Ocean somewhere between 2010 and 2015. "And it's probably going to happen even faster than that," said Fortier, who leads an international team of researchers in the Arctic looking for clues to climate change. ~Canada.com, 2007

An already relentless melting of the Arctic greatly accelerated this summer—a sign that some scientists worry could mean global warming has passed an ominous tipping point... This week, after reviewing his own new data, NASA climate scientist Jay Zwally said: "At this rate, the Arctic Ocean could be nearly ice-free at the end of summer by 2012, much faster than previous predictions..." NASA scientist James Hansen, the lone-wolf researcher often called the godfather of global warming, on Thursday was to tell scientists and others at the American Geophysical Union scientific in San Francisco that in some ways Earth has hit one of his so-called tipping points, based on Greenland melt data. ~National Geographic, 2007

The entire north polar ice cap will be gone in 5 years.
~Former Vice President Al Gore, December 13, 2008

Would you want to buy a used car from any of these guys?

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/15/2015 12:24:22 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 12:25:57 PM   
markyugen


Posts: 129
Joined: 4/13/2013
Status: offline 		Great source this:\Embarrassing Predictions Haunt the Global-Warming Industry

The New American ... is published by American Opinion Publishing, a wholly owned subsidiary of The John Birch Society.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 12:59:41 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen

Great source this:\Embarrassing Predictions Haunt the Global-Warming Industry

The New American ... is published by American Opinion Publishing, a wholly owned subsidiary of The John Birch Society.

Great source for this too:

In climate research and modelling, we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible.

See if you can guess.

K.

(in reply to markyugen)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 1:04:41 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Rather than the individuals why not consider the conclusion of the vast majority of scientist when it comes to global warming? Yes I believe them until new evidence comes along. Believe me I know my job quite well... If I were to give you advice with my expertise you would be responsible to consider it. If there were thousands in my field giving the same advice you would be a fool not to consider it.

I do believe that if global warming was first brought to light by a conservative rather than a controversial environmentalist we would not be having this conversation today. Imagine the response if say Theodore Roosevelt were to have introduced the warning.

To me the politics of this issue is irresponsible and doing our country and future a disservice. Rather than denying GW we should be investing more research into it to find out if it is a threat.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 1:07:09 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: markyugen

Great source this:\Embarrassing Predictions Haunt the Global-Warming Industry

The New American ... is published by American Opinion Publishing, a wholly owned subsidiary of The John Birch Society.

Great source for this too:

In climate research and modelling, we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible.

See if you can guess.

K.




Yes and we can trade links all day and night...and with a count I would win... if there needs to be a winner. Don't you think there is at least enough data to warrant further intensive research and planning?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 1:18:24 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Great source for this too:

In climate research and modelling, we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible.

See if you can guess.


Yes and we can trade links all day and night...and with a count I would win... if there needs to be a winner.

What do you mean you would "win"? If it's not possible then it's not fucking possible, and the models have been proving that over and over again for more than 25 years now. What does it take?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Don't you think there is at least enough data to warrant further intensive research and planning?

Plan for what, precisely?

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/15/2015 1:27:17 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 1:59:06 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Why bother...any search on global warming is overwhelmingly consistent in support of the majority accepted theory... I will not try to change your mind but will continue to answer your questions.

I believe the possibility of a significantly rising sea level should be planned for…How do we fight it, should we fight it, where do we relocate people and industry…etc.

Natural disaster management and emergency funds should be planned for. For instance hotter temps may damage crops… strain our power grid…require emergency response for the young and elderly… unless we want heat related deaths as in India this year.

Wild fires… flooding… change in weather patterns that may affect crop production in the Midwest. Extreme weather conditions such as heavy snowfall and ice storms to sever thunderstorms and tornadoes. Otherwise more FEMA funding and a good plan this time, not like Katrina.

There is lot to plan for…figure how to fight and finance before it is upon us when we are unprepared.

This is just being prepared for the results and should be the least of our planning. I understand the resistance of climate control methods proposed today. The only way for this to work is if every country were to sign on or be forced to participate. The result… perhaps a slowing of GW that will make it more manageable... BUT… Lets say after the world effort to stop GW was found later to be not needed after all what would be the result? I’ll tell you a cleaner more healthy environment for our great grandchildren… what the hell would be wrong with that?


< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/15/2015 2:39:01 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 2:49:26 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why bother...any search on global warming is overwhelmingly consistent in support of the majority accepted theory...

It doesn't matter how many people accept it. A lot of things used to be accepted. So what?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

BUT… Lets say after the world effort to stop GW was found later to be not needed after all what would be the result? I’ll tell you a cleaner more healthy environment for our great grandchildren… what the hell would be wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with cleaning up pollution, Butch. But CO2 isn't a pollutant.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/15/2015 2:55:37 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 2:56:30 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
Again, you've fallen for a very very simplistic trick.
If two firms, let's call them CoalCo and SolarCo, without any of those "special breaks" have to pay $100 in tax, and then CoalCo - because of its lobbying power - is able to obtain a special tax break of $30 so that it now only pays $70 dollars then what has happened is that CoalCo has received a subsidy of $30 dollars. Even though CoalCo is still a net payer of taxes, it has benefited to the tune of $30 dollars. The "special tax break" is a little gift that the government has given the company. It is no different than a scheme in which there is no tax break, and both firms pay their $100 in tax, but coalCo gets a check for $30 from the government. The government is giving coalCo money. The government is subsidising coalCo.
That's a subsidy paid for by all of the other tax payers... people like you and me.

You've fallen for a common Democrat stratagem. You make it look like it's the government's money in the first place. It's not. It belongs to the business. Reducing the amount of taxes government takes from a company isn't a subsidy, it's a case where the company gets to keep more of it's own money.
I've stated it many times, but will do so again: I'm all for ending all tax loopholes (not this one, or that one, but not these), except maintaining tax exempt status for charitable organizations.

It is definitely a subsidy if, to pander a little to your sensitivities over "tax", the government agrees to steal less money from one company than it does from another.
You're allowing an ideological tic to cloud you from the abundantly simple fact that irrespective of how you feel about taxes, any rebate that is given to one organization or type of organization over another is a subsidy. This is a very well defined thing, banks understand it, investors understand it, and I just know that you are capable of understanding it.
www.investopedia.com/terms/s/subsidy.asp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy


I'll concede your point, even though I still don't agree.

What tax breaks do oil companies get that no other business gets? Do "green energy" companies get breaks (or direct subsidies) that oil companies don't get?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 3:03:53 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

but CO2 isn't a pollutant.


I don't know Kirata but with all the scientific speculation and evidence out there, and the at least possible disastrous results if true, why did the Republican house let the committee expire? You think that was not political?

With something that could affect our future and our children's future so severely shouldn't we have a government committee gathering expert information in a non-political way so we know within reason if we need to act?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 3:49:48 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Nothing is wrong with cleaning up pollution, Butch. But CO2 isn't a pollutant.


It is if there's too much of it, which there is. Likewise, even water is a pollutant to the human body, if there's too much of it.

K, you know this stuff. Stop dicking about. What's the point?

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 5:16:58 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

K, you know this stuff. Stop dicking about. What's the point?

In the phrase "not possible," which word don't you understand?

K.



(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Latest Global Warming News - 7/15/2015 5:34:32 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

Nothing is wrong with cleaning up pollution, Butch. But CO2 isn't a pollutant.

It is if there's too much of it, which there is. Likewise, even water is a pollutant to the human body, if there's too much of it.
K, you know this stuff. Stop dicking about. What's the point?


Are we going to have to ban water, now, too?!? I mean, water vapor is a greenhouse gas, AND it's a pollutant to the human body?!?!? Run for the hills (unless there's water up in them thar hills)!!


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 100
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