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RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/10/2015 11:53:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

And then what.
Change human nature with drugs? Education? Removal of likely suspects brains? Or just their rights? I mean basic human rights, not just one.....yanno...the gun one
Meanwhile.......

I was thinking more along of the lines of appropriate anger management being taught in schools.

I am concerned that you would seemingly advocate the removal of brains, forced drugs, treating people as sub-human, and curtailing rights (including, yanno, the gun one).

You go right ahead with your concerns.
Please tell me what part of my post speaks to me advocating anything i mentioned?

You suggested those as preventative measures.

They have been used in the past to various degrees in the by many peoples.
I am a sadist, I can "suggest" so much worse.

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(in reply to ifmaz)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/10/2015 12:03:07 PM

BamaD

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FR

Getting back to the inferrence of the thread.
I own two kukris, do the 4 bowies I own mean I am more likely to misuse knives?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/10/2015 12:20:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Getting back to the inferrence of the thread.
I own two kukris, do the 4 bowies I own mean I am more likely to misuse knives?

On good.......yer a slasher freak

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/10/2015 1:14:43 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Getting back to the inferrence of the thread.
I own two kukris, do the 4 bowies I own mean I am more likely to misuse knives?

On good.......yer a slasher freak

As an unnamed Englishmanwill confirm, I used them when I helped assasinate Ceasar.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/10/2015 1:50:45 PM

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quote:

As an unnamed Englishmanwill confirm, I used them when I helped assasinate Ceasar.

Et tu, Bama?

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it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/10/2015 11:42:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

One thing that emerges clearly from the various discussions of gun laws and gun violence here is that there are very different attitudes towards guns in the US than in comparable countries.

It would be more relevant to note that there are very different attitudes toward guns within the United States, and I don't mean pro- versus anti-gun. There are two very different "gun cultures" in America. This one:

And this one:

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If the pro-gun lobby are as serious about reducing the levels of gun violence as they insist they are, then they must accept this responsibility, as indeed must all sectors of US life

We already have laws against illegal possession and trafficking. But in many states the penalties for illegal possession are trivial, and too little effort is made to track down the traffickers and prosecute them. The problem lies where it always has, with our legislatures. You won't find any law-abiding gun owners objecting to stiffer penalties and more enforcement. Every time some new gun law is proposed, they're the first to suggest that we enforce the ones we already have.

Wayne LaPierre: Not Enforcing Existing Gun Laws—That’s A Crime
NRA Chief: Feds Should Enforce Existing Gun Laws; Out of 76,000 Denied Permits Only 44 Prosecuted
Gun Control Facts: Existing Gun Laws Would Reduce Crime, But These Are Not Enforced

K.

You really nailed it on that one. Excellent post once again.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/11/2015 10:04:17 PM

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The father of the Roseburg, Oregon, shooter said he doesn't know where his son got his weapons, and he declined to comment much on his son's mental state, but he was quick to say what he thought was to blame in the deadly college attack: Guns.

When I was a kid, I respected my parents. I loved them. I would never have done anything to hurt my mother, or bring shame on my father. And if I ever had done something like this, my parents would have spent the rest of their lives trying to understand: Where had they failed me? Could they have guided me better? But not Harper Mercer's father. He had nothing to do it.

Ian Mercer, during an interview outside his California home Saturday, told CNN that he didn't know his son had a single gun, let alone 13. He asked, "How on earth could he compile 13 guns? How could that happen?"

Can you believe this? It never even occurs to him that if he had taken more interest in son, spent more time with him, guided him, he might have a fucking clue. What a colossal piece of shit.

Source

K.

(in reply to lovmuffin)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 6:55:43 AM

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SO all absent parents are to blame for the actions of their offspring.
nice to know.

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(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 7:38:02 AM

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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If the pro-gun lobby are as serious about reducing the levels of gun violence as they insist they are, then they must accept this responsibility, as indeed must all sectors of US life

We already have laws against illegal possession and trafficking. But in many states the penalties for illegal possession are trivial, and too little effort is made to track down the traffickers and prosecute them. The problem lies where it always has, with our legislatures. You won't find any law-abiding gun owners objecting to stiffer penalties and more enforcement. Every time some new gun law is proposed, they're the first to suggest that we enforce the ones we already have.

Now this is something that mystifies me. You are asserting that the pro-gun lobby doesn't have a problem with existing laws being enforced rigourously. I doubt if the anti-gun people would have any problem with that. So it would appear that this is a change to the status quo that all parties can support.

The obvious question to me is : Why isn't this happening now? An earlier post stated that the registration and checking system was grossly underfunded. Is this the case? Given the NRA's undoubted clout in Congress, is it pressuring its 'friends'in Congress to fund existing programs? If not why not? Why, in your view are the legislatures responsible? I note that in one of your links, the Obama Administration is blamed, yet Republicans control Congress which in turn controls the purse strings as I understand it. So why isn't the GOP pushing it? Is this anything more than rhetoric and blame-shifting?

It does seem to me that if there is an area where all agree, then that is one way of moving this whole sorry situation forward. After a few years, everyone will be in a position to judge whether existing laws enforced rigourously has achieved a significant reduction in gun violence. If it works then terrific - job done! If it doesn't then the case for furher legisalation will be indisputable.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/12/2015 8:28:32 AM >

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RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 12:17:59 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

The obvious question to me is : Why isn't this happening now? An earlier post stated that the registration and checking system was grossly underfunded

This is not so simple tweak... There is an outright rebellion by many conservative backward states against gun control and laws. In my state there are laws proposed and passed by our conservative legislature that defund enforcement of federal gun laws AND even make enforcing them a state felony where offenders can be fined and incarcerated. This also happens at the city and county level where law enforcement refuse to enforce existing gun law.

This is not really so unusual... as another example there are state laws allowing pot that is against Federal law.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/12/2015 12:18:33 PM >

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(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 12:22:22 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

The obvious question to me is : Why isn't this happening now? An earlier post stated that the registration and checking system was grossly underfunded

This is not so simple tweak... There is an outright rebellion by many conservative backward states against gun control and laws. In my state there are laws proposed and passed by our conservative legislature that defund enforcement of federal gun laws AND even make enforcing them a state felony where offenders can be fined and incarcerated. This also happens at the city and county level where law enforcement refuse to enforce existing gun law.

This is not really so unusual... as another example there are state laws allowing pot that is against Federal law.

Butch

And most of CA ignores immigration law.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 12:25:56 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Show me where existing or proposed State immigration laws in California directly contradict federal law.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/12/2015 12:41:20 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 12:31:01 PM

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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If the pro-gun lobby are as serious about reducing the levels of gun violence as they insist they are, then they must accept this responsibility, as indeed must all sectors of US life

We already have laws against illegal possession and trafficking. But in many states the penalties for illegal possession are trivial, and too little effort is made to track down the traffickers and prosecute them. The problem lies where it always has, with our legislatures. You won't find any law-abiding gun owners objecting to stiffer penalties and more enforcement. Every time some new gun law is proposed, they're the first to suggest that we enforce the ones we already have.

Now this is something that mystifies me. You are asserting that the pro-gun lobby doesn't have a problem with existing laws being enforced rigourously. I doubt if the anti-gun people would have any problem with that. So it would appear that this is a change to the status quo that all parties can support.

You'd think so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The obvious question to me is : Why isn't this happening now? An earlier post stated that the registration and checking system was grossly underfunded. Is this the case? Given the NRA's undoubted clout in Congress, is it pressuring its 'friends'in Congress to fund existing programs? If not why not? Why, in your view are the legislatures responsible? I note that in one of your links, the Obama Administration is blamed, yet Republicans control Congress which in turn controls the purse strings as I understand it. So why isn't the GOP pushing it? Is this anything more than rhetoric and blame-shifting?

In my estimation, money is more important than lives these days. This came up in one of the other threads. Yes, NICS is underfunded and broken. And our criminal justice system is notorious for plea-bargaining. Get a confession to lesser charge, you chalk up a clearance and save the often exorbitant cost of a trial. This results in the perp being back on the street in short order, doing good to one and all. Too, investing time and manpower in tracking back the chain of possession of illegal firearms also costs money. So again, it's money over lives.

You mention the NRA, but the NRA's mission is defending gun rights, not lobbying for criminal justice reform. They're far from silent about the need for it, however, and the trade organization for the firearms industry has been trying to get NICS fixed for some time. They've even fund a website devoted to the effort. Why doesn't anything happen? Money. It's ever so much cheaper to just stir up people's emotions and pass another "feel good" law that will have no measurable effect on violent crime.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

It does seem to me that if there is an area where all agree, then that is one way of moving this whole sorry situation forward. After a few years, everyone will be in a position to judge whether existing laws enforced rigourously has achieved a significant reduction in gun violence. If it works then terrific - job done! If it doesn't then the case for furher legisalation will be indisputable.

I couldn't agree more.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/12/2015 12:33:43 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 12:35:07 PM

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As violence done with firearms is a subset of violent crimes; wouldn't it make more sense to reduce all violent crime?

One of the reasons that the NRA has clout inside the beltway is because it is an organization whose members cut right across political boundaries and socioeconomic boundaries.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 12:39:33 PM

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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Great! What's your plan? What's the NRA doing about it?

...because it seems not so much...

(in reply to MercTech)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 12:53:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

SO all absent parents are to blame for the actions of their offspring.

"Absent parents" is an oxymoron.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/12/2015 1:00:27 PM >

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 1:21:25 PM

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Well theres lots of em about...
lets do a poll to see what people think

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RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 1:22:46 PM

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quote:

wouldn't it make more sense to reduce all violent crime?

Thats easier said than done, more so than gun regulation.

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RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 3:51:50 PM

Aylee

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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Getting back to the inferrence of the thread.
I own two kukris, do the 4 bowies I own mean I am more likely to misuse knives?

I am not even sure of how many knives I own. To be honest, it has never occurred to me to COUNT them. Different knives for different things and a few to spare in case you need to lend one (or get one stuck in someone.)

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RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 3:56:35 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Show me where existing or proposed State immigration laws in California directly contradict federal law.

Butch

They refuse to inforce the Federal laws, and if you remember when the oft deported illegal shot a woman with a firearm he stole from a Federal agent.
The defense on the part of law enforcement was a law that prohibited them from contacting ICE when releasing him. And all over the state they have a policy against enforceing them. Houston long ago procliamed themselves to be a sanctuary city.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

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