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RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 7:39:18 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

behind me hon:)


With a view like that I will hardly notice the wait.

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RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 7:53:18 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		What crap... the 1999 amendment allowing conceal and carry was defeated mostly because law enforcement at the time was against it with a split between city and rual. In 2003 the Missouri legislature overrode the vote of the people and allowed conceal and carry without a ballot.

You may be thinking of the Missouri Right to Bear Arms, Amendment 5 in 2014 11 years later. This has nothing to do with conceal and carry... this was in response to a local City making it illegal to openly carry firearms within its city limits. Now Cities are trying to get the law repealed because gun nuts are going to court demanding they be allowed to carry openly weapons in bars, zoo, movie theaters most any place of their choice even if local law prohibits it.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/12/2015 8:08:01 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/12/2015 8:39:28 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

What crap... the 1999 amendment allowing conceal and carry was defeated mostly because law enforcement at the time was against it with a split between city and rual. In 2003 the Missouri legislature overrode the vote of the people and allowed conceal and carry without a ballot.

You may be thinking of the Missouri Right to Bear Arms, Amendment 5 in 2014 11 years later. This has nothing to do with conceal and carry... this was in response to a local City making it illegal to openly carry firearms within its city limits. Now Cities are trying to get the law repealed because gun nuts are going to court demanding they be allowed to carry openly weapons in bars, zoo, movie theaters most any place of their choice even if local law prohibits it.

Butch

The circuit court in CA ruled that the state had to allow either open or concealed carry.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 403
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 12:28:07 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

The obvious question to me is : Why isn't this happening now? An earlier post stated that the registration and checking system was grossly underfunded


This is not so simple tweak... There is an outright rebellion by many conservative backward states against gun control and laws. In my state there are laws proposed and passed by our conservative legislature that defund enforcement of federal gun laws AND even make enforcing them a state felony where offenders can be fined and incarcerated. This also happens at the city and county level where law enforcement refuse to enforce existing gun law.

This is not really so unusual... as another example there are state laws allowing pot that is against Federal law.

Butch

Interesting. As the changes in gun laws seem to directly contradict the NRA's policy of insisting that existing laws be enforced rigourously, no doubt the NRA agitated against these changes to existing laws ....? Or did they .....?

I find it hard to believe that conservative lawmakers would act in this area without the NRA's approval. If this is the case, and the NRA supported defunding enforcement of existing gun laws, indeed reversing them to the extent of making it a felony to enforce existing gun laws, then that would make a mockery of the NRA's public stance that enforcing existing gun laws rigourously would address the gun violence problem.

I am looking forward to hearing the actual position the NRA adopted when these law changes were proposed and went through the legislature. Could you please advise us whether it acted in accordance with its publicly stated position or did it encourage and support the relaxation of existing laws?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/13/2015 12:38:42 AM >

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RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 1:11:55 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

SO all absent parents are to blame for the actions of their offspring.
nice to know.


Funny that you should mention that. How many shooters have been raised in a home where the mother was divorced or unmarried?

I think that you may find a pattern.


*I've* noticed a pattern. They were all raised in American homes.



I guess the mass shooter in Norway was an American?

Funny thing about mass or rampage shootings, which you folks claim is uniquely American, with America leading the world....

America, ranks 6th in mass shootings per capita.

Google it yourself

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(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 405
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 7:15:31 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

SO all absent parents are to blame for the actions of their offspring.
nice to know.


Funny that you should mention that. How many shooters have been raised in a home where the mother was divorced or unmarried?

I think that you may find a pattern.


*I've* noticed a pattern. They were all raised in American homes.



I guess the mass shooter in Norway was an American?

Funny thing about mass or rampage shootings, which you folks claim is uniquely American, with America leading the world....

America, ranks 6th in mass shootings per capita.

Google it yourself


how did we get to mass shootings? All shootings, because you add one year of just Chicago in there, and the numbers blow up. The timeframe would have to be from 1968 after our latest gun law was in place.

We still led in number of incidents, and the tip off to the less than innumerate is one incident in all the timeframes discussed in Norway. The anecdote does not make a synecdoche. Dishonesty at its most foul. Numbers lie here, they do not make the statement that is purported to be made. Lets just do the numbers from the date in Oregon. Or do it from July 23, 2011.

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Profile   Post #: 406
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 10:12:35 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

SO all absent parents are to blame for the actions of their offspring.
nice to know.


Funny that you should mention that. How many shooters have been raised in a home where the mother was divorced or unmarried?

I think that you may find a pattern.

I'm quoting for context, not for specific address.

Some folks on the forum may remember this from a while back. It should have been right around the time frame these boards were doing the same thing when the man with Alzheimer's was shot in Walker Co, GA. I'll say now what I said then.

All the information Kirata provided? For some off-spring, that's how it goes with periods of military deployment, too. It runs in a certain cycle. Time period prior to deployment that continues through a month or two once the other parent is gone. The middle months of a year-long deployment are usually smoother. The same thing happens just prior to the deployed person coming home (it's kind of a last blast thing) and then period of rebellion after the return.

The female off-spring was hell on wheels to raise when both MP and myself were in the home. During periods of deployments? There is no way in hell I could have owned a firearm while she was a minor in my home. It wasn't that I thought she'd harm someone with a gun. She was, however, gullible enough to take it and put it into another person's hands.

I'm not that big on the blame the parent theory. Yes, I think parents should try to know their kids but what parent really wants to think they would do something that is unconscionable to most people?



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(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 407
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 10:16:44 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: BamaD
The circuit court in CA ruled that the state had to allow either open or concealed carry.


No they did not. Do you just open your mouth to change feet? The 9th circuit ruled that since the legislature outlawed open carry two years ago the sherrif in san diego must issue the ccw to all qualified applicants. Not either/or. 

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 408
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 10:24:11 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: BamaD
The circuit court in CA ruled that the state had to allow either open or concealed carry.


No they did not. Do you just open your mouth to change feet? The 9th circuit ruled that since the legislature outlawed open carry two years ago the sherrif in san diego must issue the ccw to all qualified applicants. Not either/or. 

They outlawed open carry so they must have concealed carry but that isn't either or? Even for you that is stupid.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 409
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 10:34:10 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: BamaD
The circuit court in CA ruled that the state had to allow either open or concealed carry.
They outlawed open carry so they must have concealed carry but that isn't either or? Even for you that is stupid.

Do you even read the moronic shit you post?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 410
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 2:28:58 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

What crap... the 1999 amendment allowing conceal and carry was defeated mostly because law enforcement at the time was against it with a split between city and rual. In 2003 the Missouri legislature overrode the vote of the people and allowed conceal and carry without a ballot.

You may be thinking of the Missouri Right to Bear Arms, Amendment 5 in 2014 11 years later. This has nothing to do with conceal and carry... this was in response to a local City making it illegal to openly carry firearms within its city limits. Now Cities are trying to get the law repealed because gun nuts are going to court demanding they be allowed to carry openly weapons in bars, zoo, movie theaters most any place of their choice even if local law prohibits it.

Butch

This is a little different from the way you protrayed it.
The anti-gun people who canceled the election after Prop B was defeated.
Polls showed that it had support of 60% of the population and like that governor in Tx the governor decided that the people might not vote the right way so he cancled the election. It was only after that that the legislature passed the bill.

This also states that the law says that if you have a ccw you can carry open and that they don't allow cities to overule the state on this matter.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/13/2015 2:29:30 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 411
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 5:47:03 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Bama... how could it have 60 percent of the population when it was defeated in a state wide election? This was exactly as I portrayed it... A legislature that overruled the majority wishes of the people.

There is no way around it.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 412
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 6:33:31 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama... how could it have 60 percent of the population when it was defeated in a state wide election? This was exactly as I portrayed it... A legislature that overruled the majority wishes of the people.

There is no way around it.

Butch


Because you didn't read what I posted. Polls showed that 60% of the voters supported the REWRITE of the bill.

You didn't read the link did you?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 413
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 7:38:21 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Bull...Show me... if the legislature believed that is true than a new ballot initiative should have been brought forth. The only time a legal vote of the people should be reversed is with another vote.

The real reason is the division between rural and urban... the urban areas have the majority of voters while the rural areas have the majority of legislators. This is why the state has a Republican legislature but a democrat senator and Governor. State wide elections are often controlled by the majority urban vote but legislative bills are controlled by republicans... thus the repeal of the vote..because the majority does not and did not want conceal and carry.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 414
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 8:59:56 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bull...Show me... if the legislature believed that is true than a new ballot initiative should have been brought forth. The only time a legal vote of the people should be reversed is with another vote.


Does that include Same Sex Marriage? Abortion?

quote:

The real reason is the division between rural and urban... the urban areas have the majority of voters while the rural areas have the majority of legislators. This is why the state has a Republican legislature but a democrat senator and Governor. State wide elections are often controlled by the majority urban vote but legislative bills are controlled by republicans... thus the repeal of the vote..because the majority does not and did not want conceal and carry.

Butch



The urban - rural disconnect is real. Rural areas are getting really tired of being told what to do by urban areas.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 415
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 9:00:05 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bull...Show me... if the legislature believed that is true than a new ballot initiative should have been brought forth. The only time a legal vote of the people should be reversed is with another vote.

The real reason is the division between rural and urban... the urban areas have the majority of voters while the rural areas have the majority of legislators. This is why the state has a Republican legislature but a democrat senator and Governor. State wide elections are often controlled by the majority urban vote but legislative bills are controlled by republicans... thus the repeal of the vote..because the majority does not and did not want conceal and carry.

Butch


I did, it was in the link I gave you. If you aren't going to read it why bother.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 416
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/13/2015 9:02:29 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bull...Show me... if the legislature believed that is true than a new ballot initiative should have been brought forth. The only time a legal vote of the people should be reversed is with another vote.


Does that include Same Sex Marriage? Abortion?

quote:

The real reason is the division between rural and urban... the urban areas have the majority of voters while the rural areas have the majority of legislators. This is why the state has a Republican legislature but a democrat senator and Governor. State wide elections are often controlled by the majority urban vote but legislative bills are controlled by republicans... thus the repeal of the vote..because the majority does not and did not want conceal and carry.

Butch



The urban - rural disconnect is real. Rural areas are getting really tired of being told what to do by urban areas.

When I lived in "outstate Missouri" in the 70's they were already sick of St Louis and KC telling us what to do.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 417
RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms - 10/14/2015 8:08:57 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		The urban - rural disconnect is real. Rural areas are getting really tired of being told what to do by urban areas.

That majority rule thing just sux so bad.  Would it be that much better if the minority could tell the majority what to do?

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 418
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