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The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/12/2015 9:10:22 PM   
jlf1961


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Alright, for the anti gun, more regulations, more restrictions, more "what kind of gun" you can own folks.

I have seen quite a few people say that you do not need a gun for self defense, thats what the police are for.

So, since pictures are worth a 1000 words, then video must be worth a few million.

The best argument for private gun ownership.

You really have to love history.

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 12:44:21 AM   
tweakabelle


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Are you advocating arming the rioters with lethal weapons?

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 1:02:15 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Alright, for the anti gun, more regulations, more restrictions, more "what kind of gun" you can own folks.

I have seen quite a few people say that you do not need a gun for self defense, thats what the police are for.

So, since pictures are worth a 1000 words, then video must be worth a few million.

The best argument for private gun ownership.

You really have to love history.


I get the impression that you live and breath for 'guns'. Its such a passion of yours that even on an adult BDSM site, this appears to be your only interest.

Sometimes you have to accept that regardless of what you say; what you research and what you post will fall on deaf ears because when people feel strongly enough about a hot political topic like this, they don't let facts get in the way, they just find their own facts to make a counter attack.

I do understand that finding evidence to back up your argument will give you that feel good effect. That works both ways.

Instead of spending your time looking up and posting your own truths, you should go and take a look at the Emory Study http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm


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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 1:04:51 AM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Are you advocating arming the rioters with lethal weapons?


You are a blonde, right? Or just too foolish to understand the point.

The point is that those people defended their property with guns. I am sure the truck driver wished he had some means other than pleading for his life while he was being beaten with bricks to the point of almost being killed.

I was a witness to the madness. It was not the fact that the National Guard was deployed that stopped the riots, it was the fact there was nothing left to burn, steal or destroy.

I was there from the first day and watched those mobs beat the hell out of unarmed people.

The police couldnt protect anyone, and yet, the anti gun fanatics would go to great lengths to deny the law abiding citizens the means to defend themselves.

Privately owned guns protected lives and property.

And your snarky remark indicates that you probably would have been cheering the mob on.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 1:13:13 AM   
tweakabelle


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I was just drawing attention to the fact that, if everyone has a gun as you seem to be advocating, then all those rioters would have had guns in their hands instead of rocks, stones and the occasional petrol bomb.

The storekeepers defending their stores wouldn't have lasted a minute, if the rioters been armed. They really ought to be thankful that the rioters weren't armed.

IF everyone is armed, then any minor disagreement has the potential to turn into a lethal shoot out in an instant. Add guns to a riot and you will get a bloodbath.

These are just some of the problems with the idiotic policy you are proposing. All this is glaringly obvious - it is a measure of how one eyed you are on this topic that you are unable to see these self evident flaws. That ought to be cause for some reflection.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/13/2015 1:22:24 AM >


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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 2:42:57 AM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Alright, for the anti gun, more regulations, more restrictions, more "what kind of gun" you can own folks.

I have seen quite a few people say that you do not need a gun for self defense, thats what the police are for.

So, since pictures are worth a 1000 words, then video must be worth a few million.

The best argument for private gun ownership.

You really have to love history.


I get the impression that you live and breath for 'guns'. Its such a passion of yours that even on an adult BDSM site, this appears to be your only interest.

Sometimes you have to accept that regardless of what you say; what you research and what you post will fall on deaf ears because when people feel strongly enough about a hot political topic like this, they don't let facts get in the way, they just find their own facts to make a counter attack.

I do understand that finding evidence to back up your argument will give you that feel good effect. That works both ways.

Instead of spending your time looking up and posting your own truths, you should go and take a look at the Emory Study http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060131092225.htm



Your impression is quite wrong.

But then, you probably are suffering a perception problem.

First I am a combat vet, I was a sniper in the army.

Second, I worked in law enforcement and private specialized security a number of years.

Finally, I hold a masters in history.

Funny thing about history, it repeats itself.

And humans, while sober, sane and intelligent at the individual level, are mindless animals as a group as soon as they percieve the system is failing.

Driving through South Central LA in the days following the riots, it reminded me of Beruit during that country's civil war. Facilities you would have thought would be spared, such as satalite emergency rooms and health clinics were burned out shells, the staff having had fled when they realized that they were no longer safe.

The city police force was so overwhelmed, the national guard was mobilized in an effort to stem the problem, it became appearant early on, that the best and only option was to set up defensive positions where people could seek refuge and gather in safety.

The security firm I worked for also had international contracts, one of which was providing security for WHO relief clinics.

Again, the very facilities there to help were the first targeted.

You see, as soon as the infrastructure appears to be overwhelmed, humans panic, and in doing so, attack and destroy the very things that are there to help in such a crisis, once those are gone, everything else is a target of the mob's anger and fear.

In LA, one of the first things I was assigned to do was to go and escort the staff of a health clinic to safety. During the first 48 hours, ambulance crews refused to answer calls without armed escort. Police and sheriff's units traveled in groups of five. Armed National Guard helicopters operated in the same manner in a US city that they would have in a war zone.

Store owners had to threaten, and in a few instances, use deadly force to protect their property and the lives of their family.

Strangely enough, after the riots of the 60's I heard politicians and "experts" say it could not happen again.

The thin veneer of "civilization" does nothing more than cover up what is still a strong pack instinct in humans, and all one as to do is watch the news to see how fast "civilized" humans turn into a pack of animals with nothing to control them but raw emotion.

And yet, people point to a chunk of metal and claim that is the problem. Thing is that during the LA riots, even street gangs went for pure brutality of bricks, rocks, clubs rather than guns. Once the mob mentality takes hold, effenciency of a gun is cast aside for the pure violence and brutality of getting your hands bloody.

This is your civilized humanity at its finest.


_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to MariaB)
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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 4:00:29 AM   
slavemali


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Are you advocating arming the rioters with lethal weapons?



If there citizens of the country they are rioting in, sure.... Or are you advocating total disarmament and trust the Government to look out for your best intentions... and to redress wrongs, when it disagrees with you and the majority of the other citizens. It is a double edged sword that cuts both ways


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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 5:55:36 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The thin veneer of "civilization" does nothing more than cover up what is still a strong pack instinct in humans, and all one as to do is watch the news to see how fast "civilized" humans turn into a pack of animals with nothing to control them but raw emotion.

And yet, people point to a chunk of metal and claim that is the problem. Thing is that during the LA riots, even street gangs went for pure brutality of bricks, rocks, clubs rather than guns. Once the mob mentality takes hold, effenciency of a gun is cast aside for the pure violence and brutality of getting your hands bloody.

This is your civilized humanity at its finest.




Its the chimp paradox.

We all have the ability to behave like chimps, in fact the chimp within the human brain is very strong. Fortunately most of us have learnt how to control and reason with our chimp. Those people who throw bricks in the riots have lost control of their chimp but why did they really put their guns away? I'm pretty sure its because nobody went out to deliberately kill someone but they knew they probably would kill someone if they had a gun in their hand. They reasoned with the logical side of their brain before joining the riot. They wanted to intimidate, just like a chimp wants to intimidate other chimps when its angry.

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 6:41:54 AM   
lovmuffin


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Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The thin veneer of "civilization" does nothing more than cover up what is still a strong pack instinct in humans, and all one as to do is watch the news to see how fast "civilized" humans turn into a pack of animals with nothing to control them but raw emotion.

And yet, people point to a chunk of metal and claim that is the problem. Thing is that during the LA riots, even street gangs went for pure brutality of bricks, rocks, clubs rather than guns. Once the mob mentality takes hold, effenciency of a gun is cast aside for the pure violence and brutality of getting your hands bloomo

This is your civilized humanity at its finest.




Its the chimp paradox.

We all have the ability to behave like chimps, in fact the chimp within the human brain is very strong. Fortunately most of us have learnt how to control and reason with our chimp. Those people who throw bricks in the riots have lost control of their chimp but why did they really put their guns away? I'm pretty sure its because nobody went out to deliberately kill someone but they knew they probably would kill someone if they had a gun in their hand. They reasoned with the logical side of their brain before joining the riot. They wanted to intimidate, just like a chimp wants to intimidate other chimps when its angry.


I doubt they just put their guns away. The mobs were a bunch of idiots on the poor side of town. Likely most either didn't have guns or they had cheap handguns. Even those who were armed in those mobs, when facing heavily armed shop keepers, weren't going to try to go up against them. I think your reading too much into it.

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 10/13/2015 6:43:24 AM >


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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 6:59:04 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
First I am a combat vet,

Of course you are


I was a sniper in the army.


Soldier talk for "bushwacker"? 
Anyone who has been in the military knows the heel to toe ratio is 10-1. I have been out of the military for about fifty years and every vet I meet is some sort of specialist killer...cooks and clerks do not seem to have survived their military service as well as the "rambos"





Second, I worked in law enforcement and private specialized security a number of years.

Rent-a-cop or mall cop?


Finally, I hold a masters in history.


From the history channel or sesame street?


Funny thing about history, it repeats itself.

You know, I saw ghengis kahn and cleopatra just the other day...it just does not get any more repetitive than that


And humans, while sober, sane and intelligent at the individual level, are mindless animals as a group as soon as they percieve the system is failing.

They the individual can do this (think) but they the group cannot?


Driving through South Central LA in the days following the riots, it reminded me of Beruit during that country's civil war.

Location,location,location!





Facilities you would have thought would be spared, such as satalite emergency rooms and health clinics were burned out shells, the staff having had fled when they realized that they were no longer safe.


Everyone saw the blaze that was the king-drew medical center


The city police force was so overwhelmed,

I am pretty sure the official word from the top was "let it burn". 


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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 7:33:56 AM   
blnymph


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the history repeating itself ... do you mean the 1860s? ... just wondering

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 8:12:25 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

the history repeating itself ... do you mean the 1860s? ... just wondering


No. He is talking about riots not Sherman's march to the sea.

I predict that Germany will have them soon as well.

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 9:02:51 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

Alright, for the anti gun, more regulations, more restrictions, more "what kind of gun" you can own folks.


Why do folks always bring up the MORE stuff... How about just BETTER... Better respecting the rights of gun owners with their input but also better protecting the innocents of this country that don't give a crap about guns.. It can be done.

As far as your video is concerned... do you really think arming the public would have done any good? I think it would have just killed more doing no good... Remember guns are just not for you... those opposed to your views have the same rights as you to guns. Guns are just not the best way to solve problems in America.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/13/2015 9:57:35 AM >


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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 9:42:18 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Aylee
No. He is talking about riots not Sherman's march to the sea.

Except that sherman was stopped cold at the gates of savanah by the mayor with a barrel of "artillery punch" and the best looking whores in in the county.

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 9:47:11 AM   
blnymph


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Sherman's march to the sea was not in my mind (nor the only thing that happened then) ...

it rather gave me the impression of preparing (for) a civil war

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 9:59:24 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I was just drawing attention to the fact that, if everyone has a gun as you seem to be advocating, then all those rioters would have had guns in their hands instead of rocks, stones and the occasional petrol bomb.

The storekeepers defending their stores wouldn't have lasted a minute, if the rioters been armed. They really ought to be thankful that the rioters weren't armed.

IF everyone is armed, then any minor disagreement has the potential to turn into a lethal shoot out in an instant. Add guns to a riot and you will get a bloodbath.

These are just some of the problems with the idiotic policy you are proposing. All this is glaringly obvious - it is a measure of how one eyed you are on this topic that you are unable to see these self evident flaws. That ought to be cause for some reflection.

The thing is one of them would have had to step out front and take one for the cause. Had they been organized enough for what you claim they wouldn't have been a mob. A mob has no brian and little courage. Shoot the "leader" and the rest run.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 10:11:50 AM   
thompsonx


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 A mob has no brian and little courage. Shoot the "leader" and the rest run.

How did that work out for the britts at "breed's hill"?

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 10:28:05 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

 A mob has no brian and little courage. Shoot the "leader" and the rest run.

How did that work out for the britts at "breed's hill"?

They weren't facing a mob, they weren't puting down a riot.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 10:31:24 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD


ORIGINAL: thompsonx

A mob has no brian and little courage. Shoot the "leader" and the rest run.

How did that work out for the britts at "breed's hill"?


They weren't facing a mob, they weren't puting down a riot.


For someone who claims to have a degree in history you do not seem to know much about the american revolution .

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RE: The Best Historic Argument in Keeping Guns. - 10/13/2015 10:50:51 AM   
Lucylastic


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poor brian...

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