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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:30:34 AM

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The public, the media does not yet have to stomach to do what must be done. Not just just in the USA, but everywhere. Just listen to the news. Everybody else is suppose to do something, be the leader. It is still a police action. It is still sit down and make them understand. Not going to work.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:37:11 AM

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:42:15 AM

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not trying to pic on you, I think its a cool sign of " solidarite"...but its empty if we go down the road we have since gone down from 9/11.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:46:51 AM

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you can "pic" on me all you like, I have no interest in conversing with you in any case.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 4:49:10 AM

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I like it when folks all over the world stand together for something. I just really really hate that is seems to take a tragedy for it to happen.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:04:30 AM

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Being blown out of your comfort zone is what it takes sadly. Of course not everyone will be standing together.
Not in anyway disagreeing with you by the way.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:11:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Being blown out of your comfort zone is what it takes sadly. Of course not everyone will be standing together.
Not in anyway disagreeing with you by the way.

No they won't, if they did we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:34:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zombiegurlsos
Yes just awful and no one understands or wants to really fix the problem

quote:

ORIGINAL: zombiegurlsos
....is that these so called Muslims are not really Muslims, just desperate ideology trying to make it impact on the world before it is regulated to the trash bin of history......

I'll just say my piece and retire, because I know it's not popular.

No doubt I'll get castigated for even putting this PoV yet again.

Many people 'understand' the problem.
The problem is.... they don't want to admit to what the problem is exactly.

Yes, these are Muslims. Real Muslims (in their eyes).
Everybody is talking about how these are radicalized Islamics causing havoc.
They aren't radicalized, they are just realizing that Islam and the west is like a square peg in a round hole problem.
They are just following what the Qoran is telling them.
That holy book that is the fundamental backbone that they are supposed to live by.
Those holy pages that are drummed into them all their lives from birth.

They are no different than us in the west who fundamentally live by the ten commandments that our society use for a bedrock.

The problem is - they are fundamentally different and diametrically opposed views of what societal norms should be.
And that is the problem - at its roots.

There are many Muslims and Islamics that live peacefully among us.
They do that by either -
1) keeping their true feelings hidden behind closed doors for the sake of living a better life in another country because their own country is torn by war;
2) for those wanting to live by the Qoran, they do these attrocious acts and we call them 'radicalized' for following their religion to the letter.

To me, it's obvious... and has been for some time.
True Islam, even a very moderate view, is anathema to the western way of life.
The two views clash on a number of fundamental differences.
There is just no way that the two lifestyles can co-exist without one or other giving a lot of ground; and in our western society, that means the Islamic faith has to bend beyond their base teachings.
Some won't bend that far and think it is wrong to do so - we call those 'radicalized'.
Those that stand up and DO something about it, we call those 'extremists'.

No doubt people will (and already have) called me an Islamophobe.
I'm just spelling it out as I see it.
It is two groups of people that are fundamentally different in both their societal and religious views.

In their countries, western people are expected to live by the way they do.
In the west, we expect them to live as we do.
And what do you do when those views directly clash???
In the ME, those westerners are punished according to their rather harsh (by our standards) religious laws.
We get outraged by it and our respective governments usually intervene at some point.
In the west, we tend to jail those causing havoc and call them radicalized or extremists.
Or, alternatively, they go back to their roots and declare war upon the west, and again we call them extremists.
Either way, the two ideologies cannot peacefully co-exist in entirety.

And there is the root of the problem.

So.... what do we (in the west) do about the problem??
Simple question, not easily answered.
Considering that almost all non-Islamic religions are able to live alongside each other reasonably well, that only leaves one sensible solution: those that choose to live in the west must accept our way of life to such an extent that their religious teaching must take second place; or they are removed back to their own Islamic country.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:49:29 AM

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quote:

I'll just say my piece and retire, because I know it's not popular.

FD, it's an unpopular view because it's a wrong view. I hope that helps.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 5:58:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I'll just say my piece and retire, because I know it's not popular.

FD, it's an unpopular view because it's a wrong view. I hope that helps.

I don't think it's wrong peon.
I see it as more the truth that people don't want to accept.
It's as simple as that.

People want to believe that we can co-exist in peace for the sake of multiculturalism.
I honesty don't believe we can or ever will.
And that is why we will always have ISIS, or AQ, or the Taliban, or Boku Haram, or any number of other extreme groups out there in the world causing havoc and deaths in western democracy and our fundamental societal ways of life.
It is also why we will never rid ourselves of so-called extremists doing such dastardly deeds as those we have witnessed from 9/11 right up to the latest Paris attacks.

Islam doesn't fit in with western ways no matter how you slice the cake.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 6:44:37 AM

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I call on the United Nations and all rational thinking countries to immediately suspend the Geneva Convention and take this war to the people WHERE they live, in their homes, their grocery stores, their houses of worship, the schools they attend, wherever they may be at any time they may be there until this fungus is wiped off the face of the Earth, down to the last person who supports this ideology and these people.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 7:05:23 AM

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FR

No need to repeat what's already been said, I agree with Aylee, DS, FD, and Lookie.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 7:15:50 AM

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On July 4, 1917, Gen. John Pershing, who commanded U.S. forces in World War I, visited the tomb of Lafayette. At Pershing's request, Capt. Charles E. Stanton made a short speech the famous ending of which is often misattributed to the general himself. "The fact cannot be forgotten," Stanton said, "that your nation was our friend when America was struggling for existence, when a handful of brave and patriotic people were determined to uphold the rights their Creator gave them -- that France in the person of Lafayette came to our aid in words and deed. . . . Lafayette, we are here!"

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 7:36:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

I call on the United Nations and all rational thinking countries to immediately suspend the Geneva Convention and take this war to the people WHERE they live, in their homes, their grocery stores, their houses of worship, the schools they attend, wherever they may be at any time they may be there until this fungus is wiped off the face of the Earth, down to the last person who supports this ideology and these people.

The Paris killers have been identified as native French speakers according to some reports. The BBC is reporting that the French police have identified one of the thugs as a French national using DNA. We aren't talking about a purely Middle Eastern phenomenon. You will find activists/sympathisers in most countries.

We are talking about people motivated by ideology, using real and legitimate grievances to promote their murderous hate. The question is how does one defeat an idea? And the only thing we really know for certain is that you cannot defeat an idea with a strategy that relies on military means alone.

That seems to make the strategy you propose redundant before it even starts.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 7:38:45 AM

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This sort of thing will continue to happen until the cost to the perpetrator becomes too high.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 7:44:02 AM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zombiegurlsos

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

My prayers to all the victims of this senseless attack. Also, my prayers and offer of help to anyone that loves/d them and care/d about them.

I had a really busy day, yesterday and didn't really get to sit down in front of the TV until about 17.20, my time. I was greeted by Sheppard Smith telling me that there had been explosions at a soccer game and there were 100 hostages being held, elsewhere.

Just then, I heard him say: "Just entering the set is Geraldo Rivera ..." His daughter had lived through the attack at the soccer match. It was with very mixed emotions that I listened to Geraldo break down on live television because his daughter was alive when I remembered the guy giving away US Military positions on live television. I wondered how many parents cried with 72 hours of that cluster fuck?

It dawned on me that 30 years ago (or pretty close), France was starting to get a reputation for "protecting" terrorists. They didn't do much to co-operate with INTERPOL on finding and arresting suspects. They didn't allow the US to fly through French airspace to carry out an attack on a terrorist.

17 years ago (or so), when I was involved with a young lady from the UK, I remember chastising people for their closed-mindedness about bitching about "the frogs" for allowing terrorists free access to the UK by way of France's porous borders and that train tunnel that goes under the channel.

So ... I sat, not really in shock but in horror as I watched and listened to people with French accents speaking about how much good the PATRIOT ACT did us after those horrible attacks of 15 years ago.

There's a large contingent in this country that seem to want us to be as much like Europe as possible. There's some Europeans on these boards who make that argument, almost daily.

Thirty-plus years of porous borders and a general attitude of ignorance toward the problem that terrorism presents, coupled with a "we need to be tolerant of everything " way of living and governing are what we saw playing out in Paris, last night.

If we keep choosing mamby-pamby, gutless, feckless leaders, we'll face the same (again).

This is NOT the "JV team". This is not just a bunch of poor, misunderstood, mis-directed souls. This is a well-trained, dedicated, determined force that has decided that our way of life must be eradicated. This is an army with whom we are and have been at war for at least 36 years (in one form or another).

Unlike the warfare of the last 60-ish years, we need to target them and wipe them off the face of the planet.

I do feel badly for the victims of the attacks and all the people, quaking in their homes and I'd like to take some steps to ensure there are as few more as possible.

It's time for a "holy war" of our own.

Michael

The problem with your sentiment, which I respect to a degree is that these so called Muslims are not really Muslims, just desperate ideology trying to make it impact on the world before it is regulated to the trash bin of history......

How many attacks have to take place and many have to die before we cease this talking point of, "They are not really Muslims" or "It is just a few extremists"?

I have seen the number of extremist Muslims put at 10% of all Muslims. That is 100 million people. That is NOT "a few." That is also a large enough number to count as its own brand of Islam.

I will also point out that there is only one requirement for being a Muslim. I am certain that these extremists, terrorists, whatever the word flavor of the day is, meet that requirement for "Muslim-hood."

What do the numbers need to be before we stop making excuses and start doing something that actually works?

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 7:51:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
SUCKERS!

Governments make these events, not joe plumber types.

where did they get the hardware?

My question is which gubblemint is behind this attack?

If your going to make an accusation, that demands some:

EVIDENCE

Which you don't have! All you have is silly, stupid, and mindless conspiracies. Many people died and many more lost loved ones. Show some humanity!

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 8:07:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zombiegurlsos

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

As you say, about a third as many victims in London. That was bad, I think this is worse. On top of that this seems to be better organized.

It looks it, yes. There must have been a *lot* of planning behind this one. The reported number of casualties keeps rising - 160 so far.

This seems to be better planned and coodinated than any of the other terror attacks. This is really scary.

and fewer real shooters doing more damage, just proves a broken watch can tell time at least once a day...

Actually here in America, the FBI took down a group of 12-15 individuals whom were planning on killing one police officer. Then during the funeral march, killing hundreds. All well planned out, with the equipment they would need, the vehicles to use, etc. It doesn't take many people to create a huge amount of destruction, mayham, and confusion when making a surprise attack against an enemy not set up against such attacks. Why do you think (BamaD) that SEAL Teams are so effective? Very well trained, geared, and operate as a team rather than a collection of individuals.

Had those 'conservatives' been successful (a bunch of limited government types), it would have been the worst terrorist attack in America since 9/11.

(in reply to zombiegurlsos)

RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 9:11:46 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

I call on the United Nations and all rational thinking countries to immediately suspend the Geneva Convention and take this war to the people WHERE they live, in their homes, their grocery stores, their houses of worship, the schools they attend, wherever they may be at any time they may be there until this fungus is wiped off the face of the Earth, down to the last person who supports this ideology and these people.

The Paris killers have been identified as native French speakers according to some reports. The BBC is reporting that the French police have identified one of the thugs as a French national using DNA. We aren't talking about a purely Middle Eastern phenomenon. You will find activists/sympathisers in most countries.

We are talking about people motivated by ideology, using real and legitimate grievances to promote their murderous hate. The question is how does one defeat an idea? And the only thing we really know for certain is that you cannot defeat an idea with a strategy that relies on military means alone.

That seems to make the strategy you propose redundant before it even starts.

You say that military means alone are not enough. What do you suggest be used ALONG WITH military means? Or do you support other measures to the exclusion of military means? If so, what are THOSE measures?

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: Paris under attack - 11/14/2015 9:20:08 AM

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Devil's Advocate.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
How many attacks have to take place and many have to die before we cease this talking point of, "They are not really Muslims" or "It is just a few extremists"?

4/19/95 and all the abortion clinic bombings were performed to help....WHO.....in politics? Certainly not Americans nor liberals. Very conservative if not Christian religious ideology. Hundreds more prevented by law enforcement over the years. All the groups The Pew identifies as 'hate groups' I would no doubt consider being monitored by everyone from the local officer to the NSA.

There are many more conservatives that hold the notion of "using 2nd amendment remedies on 1st amendment liberals". There is....PLENTY....of hate-filled chatter from conservatives towards liberals of the 'near-threatening' quality. Just go over to Stormfront if you need examples.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
I have seen the number of extremist Muslims put at 10% of all Muslims. That is 100 million people. That is NOT "a few." That is also a large enough number to count as its own brand of Islam.

There are a large number of conservatives whom hate the President for no other reason than he's black. Some hate him on his policies. We are not talking just disagreeing. Like disagreeing on whether to see the new Bond Film before Star Wars. We are talking, hate-filled rage. That if the Secret Service was not around, these individuals WOULD attack the President. Hard to know what percentage of conservatives (which is about 30%, ~+/-2%, of the US Population). Since how does one define 'regular conservative' from 'on the verge of attacking the government'? They both have guns....

Lets take you specifically, Aylee. How do we know your 'just a conservatives' and not 'someone plotting evils against the United States of America and her people?". Do we take your word for it? Since you distrust everyone else; why should they trust you?

That is why it becomes ever important to separate the evil ones from the good. But has to be done in a fair and good manner; very hard concept to construct without it, the process, corrupting others. There are many Muslims, like Americans that want nothing more than to live in peace with their neighbors. A tiny percentage are hate-filled. Most of those are...also....ignorant and uneducated. The two guys whom killed Charlie Hebro? Neither of them knew who the guy was, or what he had done. They were told to kill him. And they killed him. Had both been educated and intelligent, would they have done the same? No. There are millions of intelligent and educated Muslims. Do you see them all going after others with guns and bombs?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
I will also point out that there is only one requirement for being a Muslim. I am certain that these extremists, terrorists, whatever the word flavor of the day is, meet that requirement for "Muslim-hood."

There is only one requirement to being conservative. The current clown car of GOP/TP's try every chance they get to define themselves as the....MOST PURE....conservative. Just like the Nazis in the 1930's, or those extremists of people whom worship Islam. Its dangerous language, used by individuals either not realizing the consequences of their words/actions (the ignorant majority) or those that do (the real hell spawns).

You seem to want everyone's attention on Muslims and not just....all...the sources of evil in the world. Why is that? Your often more extreme in your views then any of the other conservatives on here. Several of them have posted sadness to what's happened in Paris. You? You seem to have no heart, feeling, or empathy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
What do the numbers need to be before we stop making excuses and start doing something that actually works?

Like filing in all the conservatives in the nation into re-education centers? While taking their guns and bibles away? Yeah, that's metaphorically what your stating. How much good with all that produce for the nation? Do we just blanket-like accuse people and stripe them of their rights? Even their most basic human rights? What will that accomplish? Nothing good and plenty of evil! That's.....WHY....no one in this nation is in favor of placing conservatives in re-education camps, taking their bibles/guns, or reducing their legal status to that of an 'enemy combatant'. Most conservatives, like moderates and liberals, are good people. Just with different viewpoints on freedom and liberty. You can't seem to understand this concept. That's your problem!

How do we fight an ideology? By discrediting it as evil. REAL EVIL. Showing proof and evidence that is easily backed up. Showing it to those that might help the more evil types. Letting them decide if helping the world becoming more hate filled and fiery is in their best interests. Most people, regardless of religion, upbringing, nationality, or financial status, tend to side with good rather than evil. To live in peace, raise their children, and have a good life.

(in reply to Aylee)

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