Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Alternative Lifestyles in the News >> RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 1/12/2016 12:10:10 PM   
Cell


Posts: 409
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I think the prison population has more to do with the war on drugs than any perceived war on kink.

>.>
I meant that kind of thinking wasn't a good indication of the the system in general. Not that I thought prisons were full of BDSMers...

quote:

If we really want people outside of the kink community to want to work with us about our consent based adult relationships, we're also going to have to have a strong showing that lack of consent isn't what we mean when we are talking about that. If, when the cops show up, we want them to leave us alone when we say we're engaging in consensual kink, we're going to have to spearhead that by showing the non kink community that it's the consent that's important to us. It's the only thing that differentiates us from those who are harming others.

It's a good message.

In what way do you you get flack from CnC people exactly?
(What's the point of contention?)

< Message edited by Cell -- 1/12/2016 12:15:14 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 1/12/2016 3:17:15 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell

Hmm, and yet you're here ^_~
Looks like your kink is overiding the law. Welcome to the revolution.

I have always been a rebel, just the unexpected one. I am considered by many to be the white sheep in a family of black sheep, but those in the know realize that I just learned how to play the system.

I am here, got here before I knew the legal status of all of this, but it doesn't make me give it a second thought. Its easy for me to say that, as a bottom, but I happen to have an over inflated sense of personal responsibility and a serious need for self-reflection that makes me be overly cautious (after a couple of early mistakes).

(in reply to Cell)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 1/12/2016 3:21:14 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell

Seems pretty much like moral totalitarianism lol. So why don't you agree with me?
(P.S. I'm saying, that government shouldn't try and police the private lives of consenting adults.)

I lean on the 'safe, sane, and consensual' side, and I think that provided those elements are present, then people should be left alone in their bedrooms, or dungeon as the case may be.

But the fact is that there is a lot of potential for abuse in this lifestyle, and we have to somehow find a way to account for that, so that bdsm-friendly laws don't open the door for abuse. The big question is how to do that. Much easier said than done.

(in reply to Cell)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 1/12/2016 3:42:00 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Very much, I try to keep the position of everybody is consenting and it's your dynamic, so it's your decision. I'm having some trouble with that due to the girl's age. I'm kind of weighing with the idea that, if she had been mature enough to understand the severity of the decision, waiting to be of age would have been the better option. He, at 59, there should have been no question, because then we would have been dealing with two consenting adults. Huge age gap but I wouldn't have had anything to say.


This is my problem with the whole situation-he is an adult, one who is supposedly well aware of the risks of the lifestyle. He knows what is appropriate and what isn't. He should know how to protect himself in the lifestyle and how to watch after others, particularly submissives. I mean come on, he wrote an entire book about submissives of a particular mindset that has been fairly well received by the bdsm community. So he isn't exactly 'unaware' of the basic psychology involved in TPE relationships. But he is still okay with risking a 16 year old's girl health and well-being? Bullshit.

His grooming of her and the attempts to evade detection are textbook examples of a predatory pedophile.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
That may have been a case of folks wanting to explore the fantasy, but as soon as I saw that ad, two things crossed my mind. One was, this is a bad set up for any top, and you'd better be very wary of any ad that says "go through me so she will be surprised." Huge red flag to me.

So apparently I missed that ad, but honestly I would almost prefer that someone who falls for that get caught up in the sting and be punished. Because those are people who are completely willing to ignore consent. They deserve any punishment they get and I prefer they were taken out of the equation so that is one less potential predator to worry about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The other was, we do know that LE has had a presence here. (I went looking for the human trafficking thread as an example but I'm not finding it.) I don't think people should believe they did that sting and no longer have interest in this place. It's certainly something to keep in mind.

Yeah, I went looking for it and couldn't find it either. Strange.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 1/13/2016 4:18:57 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell
In what way do you you get flack from CnC people exactly?
(What's the point of contention?)

Hopefully real quick because it's way off. If we ever do a CnC thread, I'll do more detail.

There's a section portion of the CnC crowd (not nearly all, mind you) that go with the theory that once the initial consent is given, it can't be removed. Up to and including if someone wants to leave. I have a real hard time with that because, even with whatever folks want to do when the dynamic is viable, including the concept of giving the consent once to enter the dynamic and that consent remains as long as the dynamic is current, that ends when the consent is removed. When one of the parties wants to end the dynamic, that's it. It's over. No person has power over the other and no actions that would have been ok during the dynamic, when consent was current, are ok to continue, starting from the very minute that a person takes action to leave.

Some folks disagree with my position of the consent removal part. If you ever do any reading on the CnC groups over on Fet, you'll hear some folks on both sides of the slash say that removal of consent doesn't work that way. Up to and including if the person wants to leave, the M will just go get them and the s feels reassured that they're not allowed to leave. Of course, these are things being said when everyone wants to stay. Nobody's hit the point of wanting to leave their current situation, so they aren't in the position of wanting to leave and the other person trying to force them to come back.

When that part hits, we're right back to law supersedes BDSM. Try to bring the former partner back by force once consent has been removed and I'm not going to feel any pity for any legal ramifications that the person incurs. Consent removal is the same thing to me as no consent.

I hope that made sense.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Cell)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 1/13/2016 5:05:02 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
I'm going to try this without messing up the quotes. It's caffeine ingestion time in the morning, which makes me prone to mistakes. Forgive me in advance if I make any.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
I am here, got here before I knew the legal status of all of this, but it doesn't make me give it a second thought. Its easy for me to say that, as a bottom, but I happen to have an over inflated sense of personal responsibility and a serious need for self-reflection that makes me be overly cautious (after a couple of early mistakes).

No offense to you or any bottom/s-types but as far as most legal matters go, you are in a munch better position than any top. You're probably not going to jail for any of the actual BDSM stuff for being the receiver. If you're playing at home in private, the majority of the time, you're not doing anything that will result in you wearing prison orange. There are situations where you could, but legally, if the cops are taking someone, it's usually the top.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
But the fact is that there is a lot of potential for abuse in this lifestyle, and we have to somehow find a way to account for that, so that bdsm-friendly laws don't open the door for abuse. The big question is how to do that. Much easier said than done.

Both in the lifestyle and out, I'm afraid. One thing I don't ever want to see happening is situations where we're talking about domestic violence and people start getting away with hitting their non consenting vanilla partner by using the 'we were just engaging in BDSM' excuse to escape the law. I have absolutely no idea how to avoid that potential.

quote:

This is my problem with the whole situation-he is an adult, one who is supposedly well aware of the risks of the lifestyle. He knows what is appropriate and what isn't. He should know how to protect himself in the lifestyle and how to watch after others, particularly submissives. I mean come on, he wrote an entire book about submissives of a particular mindset that has been fairly well received by the bdsm community. So he isn't exactly 'unaware' of the basic psychology involved in TPE relationships. But he is still okay with risking a 16 year old's girl health and well-being? Bullshit.

It's a stretch, but he's really close to what would have been called a 'position of trust' because of those things. He doesn't qualify legally. (Teacher, therapist, etc.) There's kind of undertones of it and if this thing goes to trial, rather than plea, I think a smart prosecutor will try to use that angle.

quote:

His grooming of her and the attempts to evade detection are textbook examples of a predatory pedophile.

It was the evading detection that got me, too. It's certainly going to pose a problem for his defense.

quote:

So apparently I missed that ad, but honestly I would almost prefer that someone who falls for that get caught up in the sting and be punished. Because those are people who are completely willing to ignore consent. They deserve any punishment they get and I prefer they were taken out of the equation so that is one less potential predator to worry about.

The ad is still there, in another section. There are people who honestly wouldn't know any better or think it through.

quote:

Yeah, I went looking for it and couldn't find it either. Strange.

I don't know if maybe that thread had some kind of serious issue on it. Thankfully, other folks have posted the link to the original story on other threads. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/07/fbi-uncovers-red-state-sex-dungeon-ring.html




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 1/13/2016 9:08:26 AM   
Cell


Posts: 409
Status: offline
Ok, well I'd be interested in seeing a discussion about that some time, especially involving some peeps from the other side of the fence but I doubt it'll happen over here. Might have to actually investigate fet one day. =|

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 1/25/2016 3:54:33 PM   
PonyGroom


Posts: 150
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
Going back to the Makai / Segaloff case, I've updated my Wordpress site.

Segaloff was indicted January 20, 2016 on four counts: traveling with intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct with a juvenile, kidnapping, sex trafficking, and enticement of a juvenile. Here's the USDOJ press release.
http://www.justice.gov/usao-wdok/pr/lawton-man-charged-sex-trafficking-and-kidnapping-juvenile

You can Follow the Wordpress site and get updates emailed to you.
https://housemakaicase.wordpress.com/updates/

(in reply to Cell)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 1/25/2016 5:28:42 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6670
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

If a person gives consent, then afterwards claims assault, the law is on their side even if they are record as having given consent prior to the act.

If there is evidence of the act, then even if the bottom has no wish to press charges, and says it was consensual, a zealous prosecutor can still pursue the case. Reasons for doing so elude me, but it can and does happen.

This came about because cops were being called to the same homes all the time for domestic violence but when it came time to press charges or show for court the abused, terrified of their spouses, would recant and/or no-show.
So states decided that if they had evidence an assault occurred, say whip marks, they could go ahead with the charges based on the physical evidence in order to protect the victim.

And you can't enter into anything contractually binding that breaks the law. The consent has no standing because they act itself is illegal.

It's pretty rare that prosecutors push this between willing participants because it's a sticky wicket but if pushed, the law ain't gonna be on the Master's side.

quote:

There's a section portion of the CnC crowd (not nearly all, mind you) that go with the theory that once the initial consent is given, it can't be removed. Up to and including if someone wants to leave. I have a real hard time with that because, even with whatever folks want to do when the dynamic is viable, including the concept of giving the consent once to enter the dynamic and that consent remains as long as the dynamic is current, that ends when the consent is removed. When one of the parties wants to end the dynamic, that's it. It's over. No person has power over the other and no actions that would have been ok during the dynamic, when consent was current, are ok to continue, starting from the very minute that a person takes action to leave.


You just pretty much exactly described my terms.
CnC...but the door is always open.
The second she wants to leave and I say no I'm committing a felony that could range from unlawful detainment to Class A kidnapping.

That said, there is always the corollary (Because there's always one) that one used, that door mayy not ever open for the other party again.


< Message edited by Kana -- 1/25/2016 5:32:04 PM >


_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 3/31/2016 7:38:17 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
Update: Hearing on April 1 to get charges one and four of the indictment dismissed. Trial date moved to June 2016.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 3/31/2016 3:55:51 PM   
littleclip


Posts: 869
Joined: 5/31/2012
Status: offline
he should have known better than do do anything with a under age girl. 18 is the law still unless she was emancipated the mann act is the current law. as the parents filed a missing person report on a runaway and he knowingly evaded athoritys he knew what he was doing was a violation so that makes it premeditated. the past charges bring more suspicions against him

_____________________________

currently owned by LadyAthena15805
i will always come to the call of those i love


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 4/2/2016 3:50:52 PM   
Sahar4Blacks


Posts: 31
Joined: 4/2/2016
Status: offline
Lapse in judgement.

(in reply to littleclip)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 4/2/2016 8:54:24 PM   
littleclip


Posts: 869
Joined: 5/31/2012
Status: offline
no way its a lapse in judgement as soon as he knew she was under 18 he should have told her to wait but he knowingly evaded the police and had others aid him in getting her across stare lines.


_____________________________

currently owned by LadyAthena15805
i will always come to the call of those i love


(in reply to Sahar4Blacks)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 4/3/2016 11:19:56 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
Plea agreement in the case. Here's the link. http://newsok.com/article/5489292

If I've got it right, he's pleading guilty to one count of sending offensive material to a minor, so the other charges are being dropped. For the guilty plea, he will be back on the sex offenders list. Sentencing hasn't happened yet but it could be up to two years in prison and a $250,000 dollar fine.


< Message edited by LadyPact -- 4/3/2016 11:28:21 AM >


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Sahar4Blacks)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested - 4/3/2016 9:27:01 PM   
littleclip


Posts: 869
Joined: 5/31/2012
Status: offline
barganed down so thet cost of a trial would be avoided most likely. i hope that he is not allowed to be a presenter anymore

_____________________________

currently owned by LadyAthena15805
i will always come to the call of those i love


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 75
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Alternative Lifestyles in the News >> RE: Popular BDSM educator/author arrested Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.063