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Leadership and Dominance - 2/19/2016 6:45:29 AM

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I know this notion is all but too common in literature, but truly, do you feel good dominants are good leaders? (The opposite obviously would be a poor generalization).

By leadership I dont mean a position or stature of corporate or social significance. I mean the skills to keep one's calm in the face of adversity, to be able to steer oneself and others out of troubled situations, to be able to guide, nurture and coach others without any expectations of collateral gain.

What do your experiences say?

RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/20/2016 9:43:26 AM

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If you can do it in your personal relationship, then why would you suddenly lose those skills when you walked into the office?

However, what you're missing are personality orientations. An introvert could be great one on one, but not able to handle nurturing and advising 100 support staff.

So there's no way to say yes or no. It comes down to the individual.

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/20/2016 11:50:56 AM

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Just doing a quick comparison of the qualities of each. This is a quick list off the top of my head. Create your own if you like.

Dominant Qualities:
Control
Responsibility
Patience
Vision
Respect
Love
Self Control
Compassion

Leadership Qualities:
Awareness
Decisiveness
Empathy
Accountability
Confidence
Optimism
Inspiration
Seeks input from the group
Passion

Many of the qualities are similar. But I see a good Leader not as a controlling person but a person who moves the group in the desired direction through inspirational motivation. I see the Dominant person more as a person who is in control.

That is not to say a good Dominant cannot be a good Leader. But being a good Dominant does automatically make you a good Leader.

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/20/2016 6:52:21 PM

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for me personally you can be a leader but not dominant but to be dominant you must be a leader. Probably why I don't consider many people in the world to be dominant when they think they are. I think dominance is actually a rare breed.

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/20/2016 7:10:42 PM

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@mousekabob
I agree with that

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/20/2016 8:42:15 PM

Cell

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Yer well, I believe if you have people wanting you to take the lead regularly enough throughout your life, you have the qualities of a 'good leader'... the main qualification of the job being the ability to get people following you... Not some shopping list of ideals.
Same deal with dominance. You don't have to be Jesus...

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/20/2016 11:02:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mousekabob

for me personally you can be a leader but not dominant but to be dominant you must be a leader. Probably why I don't consider many people in the world to be dominant when they think they are. I think dominance is actually a rare breed.

As do I.

What there are, in BDSM, are a lot of male Tops who want to believe that they are Dominant, the wannabe Dominants, the wannabe Master who lacks self-mastery.
(And the same goes for a sizeable proportion of female Tops.)

This closely parallels the vanilla world being chalk full of men going around proclaiming they are "alpha" male "A" types who are natural-born leaders.

Yeah, right. Legends in their own mind.
(And yes, there are female professionals who also get caught up in their insecurities, who throw their weight around and pull rank on others in order to try to get taken seriously.)

Anybody can take the lead, and anybody can get followers. Anybody can always be a little more Dominant than someone else is. An alpha slave can be put in charge of running a poly household of other slaves. Servants defer to the butler or to the senior housekeeper. A lieutenant is an officer in charge of enlisted men, but he is hardly ready to fill his CO's or a lieutenant colonel's shoes.

It's like what they say about teaching. All you need to teach another is to be just a little more knowledgeable or experienced than they are. Doesn't make you an expert in that field, far from it, nor does it mean that you still don't have a whole lot more to learn. Take a 4-year-old, for example, who takes charge of a group of 2-year-olds.

DreamLady

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Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/20/2016 11:03:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell

Yer well, I believe if you have people wanting you to take the lead regularly enough throughout your life, you have the qualities of a 'good leader'... the main qualification of the job being the ability to get people following you... Not some shopping list of ideals.
Same deal with dominance. You don't have to be Jesus...

Perfectly what my mentor tells me. About the leader part, not dominance. Jeez.

(in reply to Cell)

RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/20/2016 11:05:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

An introvert could be great one on one, but not able to handle nurturing and advising 100 support staff.

I am rather of the opinion that in certain jobs introverts make wonderful leaders, better than extroverts. Read Susan Cain?

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/21/2016 4:36:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuaveGentleman

I know this notion is all but too common in literature, but truly, do you feel good dominants are good leaders? (The opposite obviously would be a poor generalization).

By leadership I dont mean a position or stature of corporate or social significance. I mean the skills to keep one's calm in the face of adversity, to be able to steer oneself and others out of troubled situations, to be able to guide, nurture and coach others without any expectations of collateral gain.

What do your experiences say?

Would you board a tall ship with a captain that was passive and indecisive?

Circumnavigating on a tall ship is much like life... there are hazards, rewards, glorious horizons, and nightmare seas. The weak and indecisive sink, the strong and wise reap the rewards... Ad Victorem Spolias.

One can decry "I iz dominate, here me ror!" all day, while looking for an /s to fix their banjanxed life, and they can label themselves as such... and always will. However, when looking for leadership and dominance, you seek the ship you want to board, not the one you need to fix... broken ships tend to sink.

I have an awesome life because I make good choices, have a singularity of focus when improving my life, and don't allow anyone on my ship that cannot follow or obey. I work very hard to have this life and it is "mastery" of self; discipline and insurmountable self control that makes my life good. Ad Victorem Spolias, I am the victor of my life and reap the rewards ;)

Jus sayin

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/21/2016 6:14:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: mousekabob

for me personally you can be a leader but not dominant but to be dominant you must be a leader. Probably why I don't consider many people in the world to be dominant when they think they are. I think dominance is actually a rare breed.

As do I.

What there are, in BDSM, are a lot of male Tops who want to believe that they are Dominant, the wannabe Dominants, the wannabe Master who lacks self-mastery.
(And the same goes for a sizeable proportion of female Tops.)

This closely parallels the vanilla world being chalk full of men going around proclaiming they are "alpha" male "A" types who are natural-born leaders. Yeah, right. Legends in their own mind.
(And yes, there are female professionals who also get caught up in their insecurities, who throw their weight around and pull rank on others in order to try to get taken seriously.)

Anybody can take the lead, and anybody can get followers. Anybody can always be a little more Dominant than someone else is. An alpha slave can be put in charge of running a poly household of other slaves. Servants defer to the butler or to the senior housekeeper. A lieutenant is an officer in charge of enlisted men, but he is hardly ready to fill his CO's or a lieutenant colonel's shoes.

It's like what they say about teaching. All you need to teach another is to be just a little more knowledgeable or experienced than they are. Doesn't make you an expert in that field, far from it, nor does it mean that you still don't have a whole lot more to learn. Take a 4-year-old, for example, who takes charge of a group of 2-year-olds.

DreamLady

Absolutely! Great words.

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aka littlewonder
------------------------
Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/21/2016 7:51:30 PM

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I do agree that a Dominant can be a good Leader. But there was something in the back of my mind and I was having trouble putting my finger on it that not all good Dominants are good Leaders. It centered around the idea of getting people to follow you. A good Leader can motivate, and so can a good Dominant. But what does a good Leader have that maybe a good Dominant does not? Likability! Here is an interesting article from Psychology Today on the subject:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201401/why-leaders-need-be-likeable-rather-dominating

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/21/2016 11:38:27 PM

Cell

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Maybe... Does a good leader really need to be likeable? I think 'competence' would be more important to me. I could follow someone who's more competent than me because even if I didn't like them I can nevertheless respect the fact that their skills/knowledge/experience (whatever equates to competence) are greater than mine. However it doesn't matter how likeable someone is, if they are incompetent that would probably make them a bad leader in my mind. I don't think likability would get a leader very far unless there was something else to back it up...

(in reply to DocStrange)

RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/22/2016 12:28:22 AM

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Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DocStrange
I do agree that a Dominant can be a good Leader. But there was something in the back of my mind and I was having trouble putting my finger on it that not all good Dominants are good Leaders. It centered around the idea of getting people to follow you. A good Leader can motivate, and so can a good Dominant. But what does a good Leader have that maybe a good Dominant does not? Likability! Here is an interesting article from Psychology Today on the subject:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201401/why-leaders-need-be-likeable-rather-dominating

I'll have to agree with Cell about competence overshadowing likeability. A leader has to command respect. So does a Dominant. Without respect, no leader will remain leader for long without getting usurped.

Thanks for the link, though; I'll have to take a look at it later. I'm wanting to prematurely comment that perhaps this article is stressing that being likeable can inspire greater loyalty and motivation? That being likeable and exhibiting leadership aren't mutually exclusive?

Unfortunately, I am also of the opinion that trying to be likeable, the buddy boss, is actually a hindrance to effective leadership.
In fact, when it comes to parenting, they are conflicts of interest (the buddy-buddy part). You can't be an effective parent and still be your child's best friend during their formative years; once they're fully grown and matured, then yes, it might be a desirable outcome. It's a matter of not blurring and not overstepping one's boundaries.

DreamLady

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Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/22/2016 2:55:34 AM

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Okay, I see now. You can't really argue with these results, but you don't need to conduct a study to know that:

Their research showed that no matter what kind of organization they studied, everyone wanted to work with the “loveable star” and nobody wanted to work with an incompetent jerk.

But, it doesn't take being "loveable" to have "advanced emotional intelligence and social skills."

[Jeff]Hayden describes other characteristics of likeability—the use of light physical touch; focusing the conversation on the other person; humility; disclosure of vulnerable parts of self including mistakes; and making no requests of the other person but offering to help the other person instead.

What is being characterized as likeability is personability, as opposed to popularity (which could amount to the same thing). I'll take this a step further.

I've often heard it said that JFK Jr. could make a person he had just met in a crowded room feel as though they were the only person who mattered right then at that moment. His natural, relaxed charm put them at ease. As famous as he was, he made sure to make others feel important and valued.

I believe that the missing vital ingredient here is what constitutes "charisma" and not "likeability" as such.
That's what makes an exemplary leader AND what separates a mediocre or aspiring Dominant from someone who has a confident and self-assured Dominant personality in whatever walk of life.

DreamLady

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Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/22/2016 3:12:02 AM

Cell

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hmmm... I hope I meet a dominant one day... they sound pretty amazing O_o

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/22/2016 3:36:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell
hmmm... I hope I meet a dominant one day... they sound pretty amazing O_o

Oh, I'm sure you probably already have, at least a few times.

(Is that the Humility Factor kicking in with you?

)

DreamLady

_____________________________

Love is born with the pleasure of looking at each other, it is fed with the necessity of seeing each other, it is concluded with the impossibility of separation. ~José Marti

(in reply to Cell)

RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/22/2016 3:50:20 AM

Cell

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I was actually wondering if I should take my panties off now just in case. I mean, making me feel like I'm the only one in the room! Something tells me I'm not going to need them. I just hope no one offers me a cigar. I'll probably be so flustered by the encounter I'm liable to miss my mouth by an implausiblly wide margin and the resulting misplacement may be unfortunate... @.@

Oh, P.S. I've heard the same thing about Clinton lol

Hmmm, seriously though... I don't think it's any of that stuff. Not even respect if you boil it down. I just think if you're dominant then I guess you could be called a dominant.

< Message edited by Cell -- 2/22/2016 4:23:40 AM >

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RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/22/2016 6:32:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell

Maybe... Does a good leader really need to be likeable? I think 'competence' would be more important to me. I could follow someone who's more competent than me because even if I didn't like them I can nevertheless respect the fact that their skills/knowledge/experience (whatever equates to competence) are greater than mine. However it doesn't matter how likeable someone is, if they are incompetent that would probably make them a bad leader in my mind. I don't think likability would get a leader very far unless there was something else to back it up...

I would actually argue against that. By likeable we should not understand soft, but while a leader does need to be competent, I think it is very important to be "likeable" in the sense that people willingly follow his lead, and trust his foresight. If people do not like him, they will not have that trust to follow. Competence at one point just levels off. Think of Steve Jobs. Is he really more competent than his top engineers and CTOs? Of course not. Your leadership arises in your ability to gather and guide a team of people smarter than you. HBR has multiple studies that show that beyond a point, it is personality and not competence that matters.

(in reply to Cell)

RE: Leadership and Dominance - 2/22/2016 11:34:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mousekabob

for me personally you can be a leader but not dominant but to be dominant you must be a leader. Probably why I don't consider many people in the world to be dominant when they think they are. I think dominance is actually a rare breed.

I agree with this. I honestly think they go hand in hand. For me to follow, I have to have the confidence that he makes good decisions which is all part of leadership.

Many confuse Dominant with domineering. Many confuse being an alpha with being an asshole.

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