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RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 2:28:30 PM

kdsub

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There has to be a balance between human rights and religious rights... it would be wrong to make a baker become homosexual... having them bake a cake is not doing that... Individual human rights are more important in American than any ONE religious right... and that is how it should be... And as a Christian I find no conflict with this.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 2:30:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Tell me how is selling insulin to a diabetic against a religion?... For that matter how is selling bread to a hungry man against religion? Will your gayness come off on the money you give them?

Good grief, give it a rest. No way and no how are Christians going to deny health care or food to anyone, especially to children. It's not the same thing as a stupid cake maker, a caterer or photographer not wanting to provide service for a same sex wedding.

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RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 2:31:57 PM

kdsub

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If you have a few minutes MrRodgers could you please pray for me that I don't fall on my ass getting off my high horse.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 2:33:05 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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I personally feel the real beauty in Faith is compassion and love. Anything less, is faith in self and a self righteous act.

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RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 2:35:39 PM

kdsub

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No it means in some parts of the country gays can't buy cake... And by the way the Missouri proposed bill does not limit denial of services to wedding cake bakers... It may not go through because large businesses in Missouri are threatening to move if the bill passes...and we know money means more to born again assholes than God.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to lovmuffin)

RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 2:42:35 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There has to be a balance between human rights and religious rights... it would be wrong to make a baker become homosexual... having them bake a cake is not doing that... Individual human rights are more important in American than any ONE religious right... and that is how it should be... And as a Christian I find no conflict with this.

Butch

How do you feel about a church which does not accept homosexuallty being forced to hold a gay marrage or reception, does the human right to get married really mean that you can violate religious belief at will?
Not only has there has never been a case of denying medicine to children because their parents are gay, but there have been cases of churches being required to host gay marraiges in spite of their beliefs. How about the case before the Supreme Court about Obamacare requiring an anti abortion group to pay for abortion coverage? By the time you get done with all the things that give you an excuse to override religious rights there is no freedom of religion.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 2:44:39 PM

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So long as they allow Sharia Law in them nutsucker welfare states, because of freedom of religion.

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RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 2:46:30 PM

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I think you exaggerate but even so, what do you expect when a cake maker gets slapped with a six figure fine. Your going to see these types of bills all over the place.

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"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 2:52:37 PM

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The nutsuckers are forcing you to live under Sharia law!!!!!!!!!

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 2:56:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You see its not about you not wanting someone to go against their religious values... By all means shop where people accept you... but if you allow a baker to not bake a cake how can you deny a restaurant owner the right to deny you food... just as they did blacks... How can you deny a doctor the right not to treat your children when they are sick?

These types of laws are wrong and not Christian values and are only designed to discriminate.

Butch

Does the sign "the management refuses the right to <insert whatever here>" ring a bell?

Business owners have always been able to decide who they serve and who they don't. Of course, because not serving certain groups of people affects their bottom line, they usually reserve this little gem for special occasions.

In all honesty though, would you want to be served food by someone who hates you and doesn't want to serve you food but is forced to? Would you want medical treatment from someone who wishes you were dead anyway? Seriously?

The scary thought is what sort of retarded laws are in place now that makes passing this law necessary in the first place? If some moron wants to discriminate, let him, and watch his business lose out to someone who doesn't. As always, the solution is a free market one :)

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 3:17:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Faith however brothers and sisters is a very beautiful gift. The real beauty in my faith, would and should allow me to refuse service or products to anyone, for any reason, if it's according to my...faith in God.

I should be able to refuse doing business with blacks, Jews, Mormons, Catholics and of course...even them damn Irish. We have a freedom of religion in this country people and if the freedom doesn't legally afford me the right to decide who I will do business with in accordance with my devout and pious beliefs, then we've lost it...altogether, be it backwoods Mississippi, or Washington god damn DC. So there !!

Strange, but I don't remember a clause in the first amendment that reads: " ... unless we disagree with their religious choices"

One of the reasons religion was protected from "congress" making any law was because Jefferson (at the time) was non-religious and he knew that if the government weren't barred from doing so, he would be one of the first people that Madison (one of his political "enemies") would come after.

It's amazing to me how many people spew the Pablum™ they've been fed about "separation of church and state", but they can't show me where those words exist in the constitution. Well, it's not all that amazing when so many that pontificate about the constitution haven't even read it.

For your consideration:

quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Michael

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 3:18:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The nutsuckers are forcing you to live under Sharia law!!!!!!!!!

Yep ... logically, is it really all that far away from that? This law has me scratching my head. Surely it's just begging for all kinds of demands from all kinds of (old, newish or even made-up-on-the-spot) religions for *their* religious freedoms, too?

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RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 3:20:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The nutsuckers are forcing you to live under Sharia law!!!!!!!!!

I did not know that. Does this mean I can slap my wife around fer backtalkin me ?

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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 3:27:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brispslave
The scary thought is what sort of retarded laws are in place now that makes passing this law necessary in the first place? If some moron wants to discriminate, let him, and watch his business lose out to someone who doesn't. As always, the solution is a free market one :)

I have articulated pretty much the same thing the last time this issue came up and wholeheartedly believe what you just said.

part of the problem is, liberals want the government to fix things that people could and would normally fix/address themselves.

(in reply to brispslave)

RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 3:34:46 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Faith however brothers and sisters is a very beautiful gift. The real beauty in my faith, would and should allow me to refuse service or products to anyone, for any reason, if it's according to my...faith in God.

I should be able to refuse doing business with blacks, Jews, Mormons, Catholics and of course...even them damn Irish. We have a freedom of religion in this country people and if the freedom doesn't legally afford me the right to decide who I will do business with in accordance with my devout and pious beliefs, then we've lost it...altogether, be it backwoods Mississippi, or Washington god damn DC. So there !!

Strange, but I don't remember a clause in the first amendment that reads: " ... unless we disagree with their religious choices"

One of the reasons religion was protected from "congress" making any law was because Jefferson (at the time) was non-religious and he knew that if the government weren't barred from doing so, he would be one of the first people that Madison (one of his political "enemies") would come after.

It's amazing to me how many people spew the Pablum™ they've been fed about "separation of church and state", but they can't show me where those words exist in the constitution. Well, it's not all that amazing when so many that pontificate about the constitution haven't even read it.

For your consideration:

quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Michael

As you know that phrase is not in the Constitution, although I have had people swear to me that it is.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 3:39:50 PM

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There has to be a balance between human rights and religious rights... it would be wrong to make a baker become homosexual... having them bake a cake is not doing that... Individual human rights are more important in American than any ONE religious right... and that is how it should be... And as a Christian I find no conflict with this.

Butch

Balance would be a nice thing, but you're missing the other side of the argument.

One of the tenets that runs through-out Christianity is if you engage in sinful behavior, you are - not only condoning it but - encouraging it.

I'm going to make a controversial statement here (like that's a new thing): NO TRUE CHRISTIAN would deny medicine to someone who's homosexual (or a murderer or any of the other acts a Christian considers to be sinful). That said, having a wedding cake at your gay wedding isn't going to save your life.

Maybe Bounty could back me up on this: in the medical profession, medical ethics are paramount to religious ones. I've heard (I don't know if this is true) that ethics classes/teachers have even counseled students that the medical profession might not be for them if their religious beliefs would contradict the Hippocratic Oath. of course, that Oath has changed since its original version ("I will not charge for the practice of my art"? REALLY?!).

The point being that your argument about life-saving medicines is correct; as is the argument about soldiers, police, fire fighters, etc. not being able to deny their services. Wedding cake? Invade my event hall? Tough shit.

Michael

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A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 4:02:19 PM

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smiles...that very topic!

Hippocratic vs. Judeo-Christian Medical Ethics

http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdfplus/40015054.pdf [unfortunately, this one costs dollars although you can at least read the abstract]

Defining a Christian Doctor - Biblical Medical Ethics

http://www.bmei.org/jbem/volume6/num4/lazarau_defining_a_christian_doctor.pdf

there used to be a show on in the early 2000s called everwood. there was one episode, a scene from which was used in the opening credits, where one of the doctors, a devout practicing catholic, performed an abortion on one of his teen patients, because he was her doctor---and then afterwards, went painfully and sorrowfully to the confessional.

whatever historic differences might have existed between the Hippocratic oath and a doctor's Christian ethics, I suspect, with the secularization of society, those conflicts are even greater today than in times past.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/8/2016 4:21:55 PM >

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 4:03:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

As you know that phrase is not in the Constitution, although I have had people swear to me that it is.

Actually, I know from whence it originates ... a letter from Jefferson to a group of Puritan ministers in New England.

It was written while Jefferson was in office, but unlike the common (wrong) belief held by the loony lefties of today, not everything a sitting president writes is law (or Nixon would have had even more explaining to do).

In regards to U.S. law, those words have no standing and I truly wish people would read what they try to defend.

Every law that forces me to violate my Christian tenets is unconstitutional by definition. I just wish the PPLs would get a clue and stop belching the results of their marathon felching sessions with each other.

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 4:05:41 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am not trying to back you into a corner on this subject but i would like to convince you that accepting this type of law would be the same as blacks accepting separate bathrooms and water fountains... yes it would work... but would it be right?

Butch

I don't feel backed in a corner, so no worries. These types of issues are felt strongly and supported/opposed strongly, and I can respect that. I do get the points you are making and IF the wording of the Bill allows discrimination on the level you are claiming, I do believe it would be wrong.

What I dislike most about religions and certain legislation and even partisan politics is it divides people into US vs THEM. This places a divide that makes coming to terms and acceptance of differences very difficult. People want their side to win regardless the cost. This isn't what I think the spirit of the constitution nor the teachings of any of the prophets was meant to do.

Meh, Kay is demanding my attention and I'm getting preachy so I'm going to log off put all this aside for now.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? - 4/8/2016 4:16:59 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am not trying to back you into a corner on this subject but i would like to convince you that accepting this type of law would be the same as blacks accepting separate bathrooms and water fountains... yes it would work... but would it be right?

Butch

I don't feel backed in a corner, so no worries. These types of issues are felt strongly and supported/opposed strongly, and I can respect that. I do get the points you are making and IF the wording of the Bill allows discrimination on the level you are claiming, I do believe it would be wrong.

What I dislike most about religions and certain legislation and even partisan politics is it divides people into US vs THEM. This places a divide that makes coming to terms and acceptance of differences very difficult. People want their side to win regardless the cost. This isn't what I think the spirit of the constitution nor the teachings of any of the prophets was meant to do.

Meh, Kay is demanding my attention and I'm getting preachy so I'm going to log off put all this aside for now.

I haven't read this law. However the same charges are made against every law of this kind and they have always been baseless. I expect it is the same here.
Want to play extremes. Without this, in the current trends, why couldn't someone demand to hold their bachelor party complete with strippers at the local church?

There hasn't been a case like that .....yet..... but we get closer to it than any of kd's claims.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)

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