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RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 8:59:07 PM

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I'm sorry it's so difficult now, but I'm included.
I'm still working, and scared to leave my job when I look at how bad it is out here.
Age discrimination for those over 40 is real.
Have you seen the HBO documentary, Redemption?
I'm scared that will happen to me.

< Message edited by Marini -- 4/15/2016 9:02:57 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Tkman117)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 8:59:45 PM

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

I lived most of my school years in florida, in row housing with no AC.

You had housing?!

We had to live in tents. In the snow. In our bare feet.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Phydeaux)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 9:02:31 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

This generation is sitting back, and not fighting for much of anything.
The older baby boomers believed in taking it to the streets.
This generation is just sitting back and watching the country decline.

taking it to the streets??? yeah, Operation Wall Street did what, exactly? absolutely nothing.. I participated in one protest walk back when i was in college and half way thru I realized that the cops & govt could be taking pics and getting info on everyone there (& that was in Canada, mind you).. that was the first and last time i did anything like that.. its much worse today, now they have facial recognition, surveillance cameras everywhere, they can read your email, try to hack your computer, access your bank & credit card accounts, etc etc.. Once you get on their "watch list", there is no getting off it.. The govt labeled OWSers "domestic terrorists" ffs.. why? to label peaceful protestors as "terrorists" is despicable.. Anyone that takes to the streets or shows any anti-govt sentiments/actions is putting themselves at risk.. especially in the US where the politicians are bought and paid for by wall streeters, banksters and big corporations.. I am afraid taking it to the streets/protesting doesnt do anything today, not like it may have decades ago when the deck wasnt stacked against people like it is now.. What exactly do you expect this generation to do that will actually accomplish anything?

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Marini)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 9:03:04 PM

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I lived most of my school years in florida, in row housing with no AC.

You had housing?!

We had to live in tents. In the snow. In our bare feet.

This is why I adore you.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 9:05:20 PM

Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I'm sorry it's so difficult now, but I'm included.
I'm still working, and scared to leave my job when I look at how bad it is out here.
Age discrimination for those over 40 is real.
Have you seen the HBO special called Redemption?
I'm scared that will happen to me.

I haven't but I'll take a look into it, sounds interesting and I always enjoy a good HBO special. Personally I'm under the assumption (based on the job market I've witnessed) that those who are older are prefered for employment due to the fact that they have more experience than those who are younger. I guess it might depend on the sector you're working in.

(in reply to Marini)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 9:08:00 PM

Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I'm sorry we can agree to disagree here.
Compared to the 60s and 70s?? and how bad things are these days as we watch this country decline and get worse by the day?
These young people aren't doing a damn thing.
I talk to my dad who is near 80, and 50 times more militant than me, and he always asks me why my generation and those younger are not doing anything.
Hell the older generation would raise hell.
My dad went to Vietnam twice, go watch some 60s and early 70s protests.
Again, I clearly blame my generation and generation X, for the apathetic young people
we have these days.
Caveat-- I do think when things get much worse, many people will eventually rise up.
Sad it takes shit hitting the fan.

lol

Actually, I think we actually agree about the 60s and the first half of the 70s, but at some point during the 1970s, the protest movement jumped the shark. Everything took a strange turn at that point. The protests died down, and those who did protest during that era just sort of stopped. They did have some successes in the 60s and early 70s (including the end of the Vietnam War and the ousting of Richard Nixon), but then after that, they just sat back and rested on their laurels. They weren't all that activist by the 1980s.

Another aspect was that, by the late 70s and early 80s, a lot of what the hippies did was being criticized and discredited, such as spitting on returning Vietnam Vets and calling them "baby killers." I had a good friend who served in Vietnam and experienced that on his arrival home that it compelled him to go back on another tour of duty. Many former hippies were disavowing or reversing some of their positions. Some hippies tried to live on communes which became a brief fad that died out rather quickly. Many joined weird religious cults. Many more got haircuts, ditched the tie-dyed shirts and put on polyester suits to go out to the discos.

I was still in elementary school while this was happening, and as I entered junior high and my teenage years in 1976-77, there were no more protests. The only thing we really embraced as legacies of the 60s were the free love, drugs, and rock concerts, which became much bigger commercial affairs then they were in the 60s.

I'm not being entirely critical of the hippie generation, and as with anything, I think there's plenty of blame to go around. But I think it's a fair point that they had a great deal of momentum going towards positive change, but they themselves stopped and failed to keep the dream alive. Some more cynical types might say they "sold out."

My mother was very much against the Vietnam War and ardently supported the causes of the hippies and the movements of the 60s and early 70s. By the 1980s, she was a rabid Reagan supporter. It was ironic, as she used to have really loud arguments with her parents during the 60s (they were all Democrats) over the old guard Democratic Party and the anti-war elements who opposed LBJ and Humphrey. My grandparents were older era Democrats and they had no love for the hippies whatsoever - even if they were FDR, Truman, JFK, and LBJ supporters. They hated what the hippies were doing, and this led to big arguments in my family (and was indirectly related to my own parents' divorce). But by the 1980s, my mother was supporting Reagan, and my grandparents (longtime California Democrats who hated Reagan even more than they hated the hippies) were upset by that. I hated Reagan, too, and I made a joke about assassinating him, and my mom flew off the handle (she did that a lot). She supported the bombing of Libya, the invasion of Grenada, Operation Desert Storm, and I wondered, what the hell happened to her earlier anti-war views she used to have (even to the point of throwing a hissy fit when I wanted to join the Navy). She (and a lot of other former anti-war protesters who had suddenly become pro-war) said "That was different back then." No, it wasn't.

My father was always a diehard Republican, so his views never really wavered at all. He couldn't understand what all the protesting was all about; he thought the hippies were a bunch of communists. He supported Nixon and Reagan, but my relationship with my dad was so strong that our political differences never came between us. We could discuss politics in a calm and rational manner.

We never had anything like "occupy Wall Street" back in the 1980s. Trying to discuss politics with people my age back then was like talking to a brick wall. Most people just didn't care.

In the 1990s, I thought there might have been a movement towards more political activism after Ruby Ridge and Waco, but it was more of a right-wing caliber, while the left had already gone limp. There may have been a few radicals and anarchists still running around, but most of the left (including all those former hippies) were supporters of the establishment led by the Clintons, who were former hippies themselves. But they were just Republicans in sheep's clothing, thus putting the final nail in the coffin of the sellout generation. Today's Millennials were just little kids back then. Their parents looked back on the 60s like it was just some passing fad that many of them half-regretted.

Also, it should be noted that the nature of political activism and protesting became more compartmentalized and specialized by that time, and this even continues to today. Unlike the 60s, there was no universal cause to unite everyone to come together for a common purpose. Now, everyone is divided with their own individual pet causes. People are afraid of being seen as a radical or extremist - and they'll get skewered and lambasted if they are. Everyone has to be polite and respectful of everyone else's opinions. We no longer have the raw, outspoken verve that characterized the 60s. If the Millennials are turning out to be self-absorbed weenies, then it's likely due to the fact that everyone else was that way when they were growing up.

But this election year has been a bit feisty, more so than I've seen in recent elections, so maybe there is still hope for the future. We'll see.

(in reply to Marini)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 9:10:17 PM

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Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

You are delightful.
Age discrimination is very real, especially in such a competitive market.
200 applicants to 1 job?
Do you think they often select those over 40?

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Tkman117)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 9:17:07 PM

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Joined: 1/4/2004
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I went to school in the 80's mate. Got my last degree in '96.
Boo-hoo you -just waking up to the fact this isn't the 50's. Why don't you cry to your mamma.

In late 2008, the labor force participation rate was 66%. Jan 2015 after 7 years of obama - the participation rate was 62.8 %. Which represents a loss of more than 7 million jobs in the US. Thats a 35 year low that labor participation.
So no shit jobs are hard to find. When you buy into the idea that its governments purpose to create jobs (which it can't), what the hell do you expect?

You lefties understand that the government can borrow money to create stimulus. The corollary is that the stimulative value decreases as time goes forward - you can only pull demand into the present for so long. And the costs of pulling that demand get higher and higher. Right now, where you used to get $2.2 dollars of stimulus for each dollar of borrowing - you're down to less than .30.

And yet you cheered, didn't you at the massive increases in debt - under tarp and the Obama administration. Someone, somewhen is going to have to pay those debts - and it very likely is you. Here's a very real example. Europe and China and some of the developing countries spent huge amounts supporting their steel industries over the last 20 years. To the tune of tens of billions of dollars. Worldwide demand for steel is roughly 1.5 billion tonnes. Worldwide manufacturing capacity is 2+ billion tonnes. So the very predictable result is that millions of jobs are being lost - and people that chose careers in that field are having their lives upended. And yet you will put no blame to the governments that decided to "protect" their industries.

You cheer when Bernie announces "free" college - apparently somehow thinking that the government giving away something makes it more valuable than working for it yourself. Somehow missing the fact that you will be paying - not only for your own education - but for all the other people that decided they wanted to go to college on the government dime - and then dropped out.

You won't believe it - but the markets always win - sooner or later. Its why Greece is in trouble, the ruble is trashed, oil is $36 dollars.

Lefties have the idea that the government creates jobs by taxing, and then directing the results to create jobs - ignoring the very act of taxing costs jobs in very nearly a 1:1 ratio. And since the government has a piss poor record in forecasting job skills, it misallocates capital.

One of the reasaons that companies continue to hire older workers is because they are finding them more productive than millenials. You complain about boomers - but the fact is, if you could work as well as a boomer - you'd be hired.

When I tell you that the result of study after study of switching to higher cost renewable power in europe is GREATER emissions and job losses - not only do you not investigate it - you can't even imagine a situation where its true. Frankly it doesn't matter whether you believe or not - the market it going to win - whether you like it (and we get it - you don't) or not.

You want jobs? Stop killing them.

One last example. We use aluminum for a lot of things - you might have heard of it. China is now the worlds largest producer of it. Why? Well first, of course because they don't care about pollution. But secondly, because the electricity costs from their cheap coal power is cheaper than the renewable power mixes in europe. In a previous thread, you commented that you don't want to pollute the earth - all very well and good. But the US (and Europe) used fossil fuels that were relatively non polluting due to emission controls. The net effect increasing energy costs were to move aluminum smelting to china - AND to increase emissions.

So its all well and good to save the environment - but don't whine about the costs when you do so.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 4/15/2016 9:19:22 PM >

(in reply to Tkman117)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 9:21:10 PM

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Joined: 2/14/2010
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Zonie, another wonderful and thoughtful post.
A lot to think about.
Don't you think we live in a culture/climate that has take being "politically correct"
to the extreme?
You can barely say anything, or have an opinion and be politically correct.

A lot of this political correctness is destroying us.
I'm saying blah to rampant political correctness.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Marini)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 9:21:37 PM

Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

You are delightful.
Age discrimination is very real, especially in such a competitive market.
200 applicants to 1 job?
Do you think they often select those over 40?

Lol, thanks. Well when it comes to the environmental industry here in Canada, for every 1 entry job there is typically 3-4 intermediate jobs and 5-8 senior positions (the senior positions ask for people with 10-20 years of experience, so absolutely they're looking for 40 year olds). I've seen a lot of them which come across as being roughly the same kind of job but each one has progressively more responsibility and a higher pay. The more experience you have, the easier it is to go for the more senior positions, or even a position at all, and the higher standing you are eligable for. Problem is you need to have a job to get experience, which is quite the dificult closed loop to break for a lot of people.

(in reply to Marini)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 9:29:30 PM

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Joined: 2/14/2010
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Outsourcing?
Outsourcing by the greedy and soulless that rule the world?
Don't get me started on outsourcing, I used to start threads on here and get
on my soapbox.
I can really go off, and I'm not in the mood.

Unbridled outsourcing, many free trade deals,
along with many similar policies have ruined America, helped to destroy the middle class.

Bye bye Miss American Pie
These trade deals and policies are one of the primary reasons I dislike Democrats and Republicans.
They both have contributed to destroying this country, both sides in bed with greedy soulless corporate bastards and
special interest groups.

< Message edited by Marini -- 4/15/2016 10:08:03 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Marini)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 9:37:40 PM

Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Zonie, another wonderful and thoughtful post.
A lot to think about.
Don't you think we live in a culture/climate that has take being "politically correct"
to the extreme?
You can barely say anything, or have an opinion and be politically correct.

A lot of this political correctness is destroying us.
I'm saying blah to rampant political correctness.

Yes, I agree, although one way of challenging political correctness is to challenge it and protest against it. But political correctness is a way of burying views and watering down forms of protest. I've also noticed (especially on internet forums) that few people actually want to discuss issues in earnest with the sincere intention of reaching a meeting of the minds. Most people just posture and gibber, wanting to get their own view out but not caring or wanting to hear other people's views. Every blog becomes its own center of the universe, and each one has their own "Little Caesar" as the king or queen of their own blog where dissent will not be tolerated. And, with the same technology, they can block/filter any view which disturbs their own insular echo chamber.

(in reply to Marini)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 10:24:47 PM

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

This generation is sitting back, and not fighting for much of anything.
The older baby boomers believed in taking it to the streets.
This generation is just sitting back and watching the country decline.

taking it to the streets??? yeah, Operation Wall Street did what, exactly? absolutely nothing.. I participated in one protest walk back when i was in college and half way thru I realized that the cops & govt could be taking pics and getting info on everyone there (& that was in Canada, mind you).. that was the first and last time i did anything like that.. its much worse today, now they have facial recognition, surveillance cameras everywhere, they can read your email, try to hack your computer, access your bank & credit card accounts, etc etc.. Once you get on their "watch list", there is no getting off it.. The govt labeled OWSers "domestic terrorists" ffs.. why? to label peaceful protestors as "terrorists" is despicable.. Anyone that takes to the streets or shows any anti-govt sentiments/actions is putting themselves at risk.. especially in the US where the politicians are bought and paid for by wall streeters, banksters and big corporations.. I am afraid taking it to the streets/protesting doesnt do anything today, not like it may have decades ago when the deck wasnt stacked against people like it is now.. What exactly do you expect this generation to do that will actually accomplish anything?

I don't disagree with all the government surveillance and the fact big brother could make protesters lives
hell.
Does that mean we give up the peaceful protest option?
We must always "take it" and deal with it, no matter what or how bad it gets?
If that is the new world, than its pretty much game over to real Liberty.
Thanks

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to tj444)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 10:52:23 PM

Posts: 14414
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

200 applicants to 1 job?

I do corporate travel management. Income is average for an agent is $45-$50k - the last time we posted a job we got 3 applicants. When we posted for entry level (ie: we teach you to do what we do) we got 5 applicants... only one stuck it out.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Marini)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 11:02:49 PM

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

This generation is sitting back, and not fighting for much of anything.
The older baby boomers believed in taking it to the streets.
This generation is just sitting back and watching the country decline.

taking it to the streets??? yeah, Operation Wall Street did what, exactly? absolutely nothing.. I participated in one protest walk back when i was in college and half way thru I realized that the cops & govt could be taking pics and getting info on everyone there (& that was in Canada, mind you).. that was the first and last time i did anything like that.. its much worse today, now they have facial recognition, surveillance cameras everywhere, they can read your email, try to hack your computer, access your bank & credit card accounts, etc etc.. Once you get on their "watch list", there is no getting off it.. The govt labeled OWSers "domestic terrorists" ffs.. why? to label peaceful protestors as "terrorists" is despicable.. Anyone that takes to the streets or shows any anti-govt sentiments/actions is putting themselves at risk.. especially in the US where the politicians are bought and paid for by wall streeters, banksters and big corporations.. I am afraid taking it to the streets/protesting doesnt do anything today, not like it may have decades ago when the deck wasnt stacked against people like it is now.. What exactly do you expect this generation to do that will actually accomplish anything?

I don't disagree with all the government surveillance and the fact big brother could make protesters lives
hell.
Does that mean we give up the peaceful protest option?
We must always "take it" and deal with it, no matter what or how bad it gets?
If that is the new world, than its pretty much game over to real Liberty.
Thanks

its been game over for a long time.

This:

is the problem in the whole of the western world.

Thats right, the gubblemint can spy on you and when they want to cover anything up they just classify it and you can beg for it with foia

How many peeps do you hear babbling about freedom with means nothing more than franchise and democracy which is a delusional fallacy?

Yep!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Marini)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/15/2016 11:12:02 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

You can barely say anything, or have an opinion and be politically correct.

because to my shock and dismay no one even knows what religion is and the have encroached so far overboard into violating literally everyones religion with the 63 million bullshit laws on the books today its finally getting hard not to notice.

scrotus' decision about gay marriage just might save this planet mobocratic destruction.

When you have 2 people with opposite beliefs we have a PC problem, its gagging

the people of the western world.

It was only yesterday the jews were the sacred cows that no one dare critisize, and muslims in the crosshairs. Odd how history repeats itself.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Marini)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/16/2016 4:40:30 AM

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I lived most of my school years in florida, in row housing with no AC.

You had housing?!

We had to live in tents. In the snow. In our bare feet.

You had tents?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/16/2016 4:56:23 AM

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Joined: 11/1/2014
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without having been there its hard to say if I at least partially agree with the final exam question---but as to the 100% of the grade/no partial credit, id be okay with the teacher being whacked with a stick on that one.

(in reply to Phydeaux)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/16/2016 5:35:46 AM

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Its was engineering. They'd rather fail you than have you design a bridge that fails. You have to be able to demonstrate competency in logic, math. I am glad to note my alma mater doesn't put up with any of that folderol about "safe spaces".

(in reply to bounty44)

RE: Generation Gap - 4/16/2016 5:42:54 AM

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Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline

in principal, im in general agreement.

I know on the whole though, students, at least many students of today, would complain vociferously about something like that and unfortunately, the administration would back them up.

once in a lab I gave the students all the apparatus they needed in order to find the answer to a particular question---and wanted them to figure it out based on the tools at hand. eventually they did, but in the meantime there was a lot of angst directed at me with "why don't you teach us??" being first and foremost.

I bet you would have liked it---figuring out center of gravity on a human body with two doctor office scales and a long plank.

(in reply to Phydeaux)

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