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RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 4/29/2016 9:31:38 PM

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The trust and surrender are integral to the T&D experience. One must know that the dominant will not go beyond certain limits. Because of this, one can open up even further to the partner to heighten the experience to a higher level.
This allows for limits to be pushed even further.

(in reply to wannapleez)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 4/29/2016 9:48:15 PM

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It takes me a lot of mental energy to work up an orgasm by the hand of another (even if that hand is holding something like a Hitachi). When I masturbate, I can easily cum in a few minutes, and then keep cumming for about 30-60 minutes with 2 minute intervals, however, when being stimulated by somebody else, I need to mentally put myself in the right head space, and physically work at achieving an orgasm (seeing that other people don't match the exact stimulation I like).

If I'm not trying to cum, you can do whatever you want, but I'm not going to be 'teased' I'm going to be annoyed... and I'm not going to get anywhere near and orgasm.
If I AM trying to cum, and you deny me at the last moment, I'm going to stop trying to cum with you (and possible will stop seeing you altogether) and stick to masturbation instead.

If I allow you to make me orgasm, or get close to an orgasm when you want me to do that, you better be grateful, because I just put in a lot of effort to do something for you I could much easier (and prefer to) do myself. And that includes when I'm bottoming (I switch).
Ruining the orgasm you asked me to work of for you ain't going to produce more intimacy, and certainly isn't going to train me to do anything other than dislike you more.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 4/29/2016 9:50:59 PM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to DeliciousAche)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 4/29/2016 9:55:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

This allows for limits to be pushed even further.

This is another generalzation. Please explain which of my limits gets pushed by T&D.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to DeliciousAche)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/1/2016 9:06:05 AM

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First, I recognize that each person is different. What works well for one person will not work for the next person. The previous response illustrates this.
Some people I know find that once they experience T&D that they desire more of it, therefore they want to be denied orgasms for even greater lengths of time. (Perhaps they might not admit it though.)
Those are pushed limits.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

This allows for limits to be pushed even further.

This is another generalzation. Please explain which of my limits gets pushed by T&D.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/1/2016 12:14:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

Some people I know find that once they experience T&D that they desire more of it, therefore they want to be denied orgasms for even greater lengths of time. (Perhaps they might not admit it though.)
Those are pushed limits.

So, you think that a large number of people have "no long periods of time between orgasms" as a limit? Also, if the submissive wants more of it, how can it be a limit?

Why do you think limits should be pushed? I would view "pushing" of my limits as a violation of our agreement and trust. If a limit can be pushed, it's not really a limit.

What is your definition of a limit? Because for me, it's something that I absolutely will not do.

I find it interesting that while you answer questions about what you're promoting, you don't really answer them.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 5/1/2016 12:27:03 PM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to DeliciousAche)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/3/2016 11:57:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

Some people I know find that once they experience T&D that they desire more of it, therefore they want to be denied orgasms for even greater lengths of time. (Perhaps they might not admit it though.)
Those are pushed limits.

So, you think that a large number of people have "no long periods of time between orgasms" as a limit? Also, if the submissive wants more of it, how can it be a limit?

Why do you think limits should be pushed? I would view "pushing" of my limits as a violation of our agreement and trust. If a limit can be pushed, it's not really a limit.

What is your definition of a limit? Because for me, it's something that I absolutely will not do.

I find it interesting that while you answer questions about what you're promoting, you don't really answer them.

I'm saying that different people respond differently. Their bodies and their minds determine many things.
Some people (usually men I think) enjoy having their limits pushed, being teased and denied over greater time intervals. Start off for a few hours, then a day or two, then a week or so, and then greater amounts of time without orgasm. I have delved into this a bit myself and find that my body and feelings change with the increasing amount of time. You sound as though long term T&D would not be right for you and that is ok. Each person is different. I'm' not sure I can give you the answer which you seek.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/3/2016 5:04:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

Some people I know find that once they experience T&D that they desire more of it, therefore they want to be denied orgasms for even greater lengths of time. (Perhaps they might not admit it though.)
Those are pushed limits.

So, you think that a large number of people have "no long periods of time between orgasms" as a limit? Also, if the submissive wants more of it, how can it be a limit?

Why do you think limits should be pushed? I would view "pushing" of my limits as a violation of our agreement and trust. If a limit can be pushed, it's not really a limit.

What is your definition of a limit? Because for me, it's something that I absolutely will not do.

I find it interesting that while you answer questions about what you're promoting, you don't really answer them.

I'm saying that different people respond differently. Their bodies and their minds determine many things.
Some people (usually men I think) enjoy having their limits pushed, being teased and denied over greater time intervals. Start off for a few hours, then a day or two, then a week or so, and then greater amounts of time without orgasm.

Which isn't what I asked...at all...

I asked you "what is the definition of a limit?"

I asked "Why do you think limits should be pushed?"

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to DeliciousAche)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/4/2016 8:37:36 PM

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@Oside:

In my usage of the term "limit" I am referring to the time duration and intensity of orgasmic T&D.
How much time in T&D?
How often and what techniques of T&D are being used?

Different techniques produce different results.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/4/2016 8:45:05 PM

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I thought I'd share this with the reader:

http://talkfemdom.com/chastity-important-key-female-led-relationship/

Let me know what you think.

(in reply to DeliciousAche)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/4/2016 9:39:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

@Oside:

In my usage of the term "limit" I am referring to the time duration and intensity of orgasmic T&D.
How much time in T&D?
How often and what techniques of T&D are being used?

Different techniques produce different results.

You do realize that for 99% of the kink community limit refers to something that that they will NOT do for moral reasons, for causing harm reasons, or for self protection reasons. So, saying that you're pushing limits sounds like you have no clue what you're talking about. Many submissives would view "pushing limits" to be a violation of trust and a disregard for their boundaries.

Really what you're talking about is increasing someone's endurance between orgasms. I have no idea what the general effects are on men....but with women, long term denial kills the sex drive. So, it's detrimental to what you're trying to achieve.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to DeliciousAche)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/5/2016 6:36:31 PM

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Oside: I'm happy to discuss matters with you but if you continue to insult me, I will ignore you.

First, I support Safe Sane and Consensual practices. My usage of the term "limit" is different than yours. I defined mine.

Yes, T&D effects are different in men than in women. That is part of the dialogue which I've been hoping to encourage. Other things factor into T&D such as relationship issues, health concerns, availability to meet, etc.
We live in a real world, not fantasy. One woman wanted to lock me into a chastity device for life, never to be released. That is not practical for health and hygiene reasons. Same is true if locking a woman in chastity.
I have heard from other women that long term T&D is a turn off and that they lose interest in it after a while.

Here's a site devoted to female orgasm denial tantalism presents a different perspective.

Each person must do what is right for him/her. I'm not trying to make generalizations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

@Oside:

In my usage of the term "limit" I am referring to the time duration and intensity of orgasmic T&D.
How much time in T&D?
How often and what techniques of T&D are being used?

Different techniques produce different results.

You do realize that for 99% of the kink community limit refers to something that that they will NOT do for moral reasons, for causing harm reasons, or for self protection reasons. So, saying that you're pushing limits sounds like you have no clue what you're talking about. Many submissives would view "pushing limits" to be a violation of trust and a disregard for their boundaries.

Really what you're talking about is increasing someone's endurance between orgasms. I have no idea what the general effects are on men....but with women, long term denial kills the sex drive. So, it's detrimental to what you're trying to achieve.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/5/2016 7:44:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

Oside: I'm happy to discuss matters with you but if you continue to insult me, I will ignore you.

I told you how it comes across. It wasn't intended as an insult, it was intended to let you know where the disconnect happened. It was constructive criticism.

This is clearly something you feel passionate about, but you're not communicating it clearly. This is a written medium, if you want to sell something you need to be able to connect and communicate with your audience. By using the term "limit" differently than 99% of the community, you've left us confused. And honestly, the answers were circuitous and male centric.

Keep in mind when I speak of women and long term denial, it's from the view of someone with a background in psychology.

I realize I tend to be a blunt person, but I'm giving you honest feedback from the female perspective.

But, you know....feel free to be offended.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 5/5/2016 8:01:43 PM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to DeliciousAche)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/6/2016 7:00:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

@Peppermint:

I'm glad you are curious about this topic. Some people seem bored with it but I am not; I enjoy discussion on this from all perspectives.

The training I consider is that of bonding, the dominant and submissive working together to develop a synergy between partners. Sexual energy is built up through the implementation of T&D and that energy is channeled wherever the dominant desires, perhaps to service, or obedience, or greater levels of submission. The Total Power Exchange would cause the submissive to focus on the desires of the dominant while enjoying being subjected to a Delicious Ache (hence my screen name).

The discussion pertains to both male and female submissives.

Here are a couple of cool sites to check out:

www.tantalism.org

http://scienceofmaleorgasmdenial.tumblr.com/

I hope the reader enjoys these sites.

Okay, I'm getting the sense of where you are coming from. Guess I don't completely understand that kind of training as my own D/s relationship is not based on sex. In fact, sex has little to do with our D/s relationship. That is why I didn't get what tease and denial would "teach" someone. You feel it makes them closer. Guess that playing sexual games makes people closer. That would work with some relationships, I'm sure.

I'm a fan of tease and denial. (I actually love the Tantalism site, though I haven't been there for some time. My recollection is that it's not very active.)

It's not a sexual game for me. In fact, there need not be any partner involved, and it sure as heck isn't about sex. It's about maintaining arousal. Keeping oneself in an aroused state throughout the day, not just as a prep for sex, ...changes one's perspective on things. Results for me means that I'm softer, more accepting, more open to others, and that I act with more humility. These might not be the results for all, of course, but I am completely certain that I am not alone in this.

I don't go for the back and forth heavy tease for hours and then a giant blowing orgasm at the end of a day of ultimate tease. I enjoy and respond well to a long, slow, steady burn that's barely acknowledged. And, what might be different than what the OP is referring to is that this is on me to maintain, not my partner. My own meditations, practices, exercises, and thoughts is what keeps me there, not constantly being teased by him. (Though that certainly doesn't hurt.) And yes, this does affect my relationship, because it affects me. While I wouldn't call it "training," it can certainly be an aid to obedience. I'm much less likely to respond inappropriately if I'm in a state of arousal. (Which is, I know, kind of ... duh. Obvious.)

There are some who say that this is the stuff of fantasy, and in some cases they're correct. My mind simply must focus on other things throughout the day, so if you're thinking tease and denial and nothing else shall ever come betwixt, then of course that's not realistic. But learning to either maintain that state running in the background or to turn to that mechanism even through difficult times is, indeed, realistic and practiced regularly by women who follow this sort of thinking.

My own experience is that I can go a very long time through this state, and then, unfortunately, a very long time completely ignoring myself in that way. I definitely need more practice at it. But because I have these up times versus down times, I can also see the difference in myself and my behavior with each.

I do agree that going too long without an orgasm is ultimately detrimental. Though I have extremely long term denial fantasies, they're just not reality for me. The reality is that after a few months, I start acting out. And when keeping myself in this state is no longer one of my priorities, then that is probably the equivalent of what Oside is talking about when she says that women lose their drive. So too long is, for me, too long. But I am always looking for my "limit" of too long to be extended out.

(in reply to peppermint)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/6/2016 10:23:19 AM

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That was a great post Kaliko

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Kaliko)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/6/2016 11:17:28 PM

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@Kaliko
Your message was exactly the kind of discussion which I hoped for when starting this thread.
Thank you for your open, honest and expressive post.
You articulated quite well how you feel about this. Your position on you taking the helm of T&D was unusual to me. You're right, Tantalism has not been active much recently but years ago it was and I used to post there under a different name. There were a couple of girls there who discussed going for several months or more without an orgasm, being teased daily. Their steaming hot posts drew the attention of many readers! I heard that one of the girls had major health problems and that T&D had stopped for her but her posts live on. See the site.
There, they discussed the dynamic between female submissive/slave and male/female dominant who lead the relationship. In their case, Kaliko, the partner took the lead in such matters.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/9/2016 9:21:16 PM

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I wanted to share this with the reader. Hope you enjoy it.

http://elisesutton.homestead.com/orgasmdenial.html

Here is an excerpt from it:

Men are much easier to control and dominate when you deny them orgasms. Plus, it makes the entire FemDom lifestyle more pleasurable for the man if he is denied and sexually frustrated. Once a man climaxes, he experiences a letdown and his enthusiasm to serve the female is greatly diminished. To many submissive men, they love the power exchange of being denied while being forced to pleasure the superior female as often as she demands. As far as I go, I do get excited by the thought of having such total control over my husband that I can eliminate his orgasms. We have a saying around our house, "Sex is for the woman's pleasure." We practice it and the denial process makes this a reality.

I personally agree with this statement. Your thoughts?

(in reply to DeliciousAche)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/10/2016 2:45:06 AM

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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

http://elisesutton.homestead.com/orgasmdenial.html

Men are much easier to control and dominate when you deny them orgasms. Plus, it makes the entire FemDom lifestyle more pleasurable for the man if he is denied and sexually frustrated. Once a man climaxes, he experiences a letdown and his enthusiasm to serve the female is greatly diminished. To many submissive men, they love the power exchange of being denied while being forced to pleasure the superior female as often as she demands. As far as I go, I do get excited by the thought of having such total control over my husband that I can eliminate his orgasms. We have a saying around our house, "Sex is for the woman's pleasure." We practice it and the denial process makes this a reality.

I personally agree with this statement. Your thoughts?

This is only true of some men. The kind who need obedience training like an unruly dog infested with the fleas of insecurity. The problem child who has not matured into a fully grown man, but who hides behind the submissive label so he does not have to step up to the plate in taking personal responsibility for himself as a model husband instead of seeking to hide behind a woman's skirts, while inducing her to become his Mommie Dearest.

A man who truly wants to please the woman of his dreams as a loving life partner does not need to turn his SO into a slave driver or into a nagging shrew in order to meet her needs. He will be self-motivated to manifest a state of domestic bliss for their mutual happiness. Anything less than that is shirking his end of the intimate partnership by causing it to operate in a circular loop instead of spiraling progressively upwards.

It is also debatable whether Elise Sutton was a woman championing WLM-Wife Led Marriages, or a man who authored this material as spin doctor amanuensis within the purview of his narrow vision of female supremacy, much like modern fantasy-based Femdom porn.

-- Lisa

_____________________________

"The most precious possession that ever comes to a man in this world is a woman's heart."-- J.G. Holland

(in reply to DeliciousAche)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/10/2016 12:08:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

Men are much easier to control and dominate when you deny them orgasms.

Bull shit. That's a cop out. If you really want to obey and serve, you obey and serve. You shouldn't have to be forced or tortured to do what you've agreed to do.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to DeliciousAche)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/10/2016 12:22:32 PM

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Joined: 2/16/2009
From: New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

I wanted to share this with the reader. Hope you enjoy it.

http://elisesutton.homestead.com/orgasmdenial.html

Here is an excerpt from it:

Men are much easier to control and dominate when you deny them orgasms. Plus, it makes the entire FemDom lifestyle more pleasurable for the man if he is denied and sexually frustrated. Once a man climaxes, he experiences a letdown and his enthusiasm to serve the female is greatly diminished. To many submissive men, they love the power exchange of being denied while being forced to pleasure the superior female as often as she demands. As far as I go, I do get excited by the thought of having such total control over my husband that I can eliminate his orgasms. We have a saying around our house, "Sex is for the woman's pleasure." We practice it and the denial process makes this a reality.

I personally agree with this statement. Your thoughts?

Elise Sutton is a man.

_____________________________

I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

-William Ernest Henley

(in reply to DeliciousAche)

RE: Orgasm T&D and relationships - 5/10/2016 10:10:45 PM

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Joined: 2/23/2016
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@Masmiss:
You are the second person here to make that statement. Honestly, I have NO understanding or knowledge of Sutton being a man. It might be true but I have nothing to substantiate that fact.
Having said that, the statement is the point of discussion and I tried to share that point with the reader. (I'm sorry that some became offended by it.) My desire is to discuss orgasmic T&D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: masmiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeliciousAche

I wanted to share this with the reader. Hope you enjoy it.

http://elisesutton.homestead.com/orgasmdenial.html

Here is an excerpt from it:

Men are much easier to control and dominate when you deny them orgasms. Plus, it makes the entire FemDom lifestyle more pleasurable for the man if he is denied and sexually frustrated. Once a man climaxes, he experiences a letdown and his enthusiasm to serve the female is greatly diminished. To many submissive men, they love the power exchange of being denied while being forced to pleasure the superior female as often as she demands. As far as I go, I do get excited by the thought of having such total control over my husband that I can eliminate his orgasms. We have a saying around our house, "Sex is for the woman's pleasure." We practice it and the denial process makes this a reality.

I personally agree with this statement. Your thoughts?

Elise Sutton is a man.

(in reply to masmiss)

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