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Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 6:28:28 AM

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From: Exiled
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The concept of earning respect has always boggled my mind. I was conditioned at a young age to respect muh elders, teachers, persons in authority etc... however I do have two disadvantages; I am a Gemini and have that hardcore Gemini sense of justice and I am year of the dog (yes, I should've been the Pope or a serial killer driving around the country killing corrupt officials).

I extend everyone respect immediately. Now they have the option to lose that respect... many do... or they sustain that respect by behaving in a respectful manner.

In the lifestyle I come across the "earn respect" "prove yourself" crap all. the. time. That is further compounded by the idea that D types demand respect and the very very very wrong idea that /s types do not deserve respect.

Respect and trust are very very different creatures. It is easy for me to extend respect to anyone, the trust part is extremely hard to earn. However, once earned, I am loyal to the bone (just ask my leather family).

The respect/trust seems to become very blurry in the lifestyle, especially with the 50 shades rush to the lifestyle. The pendulum seems to be swinging in EXTREME ways with the respect, earn it, give it, ideas... then we see "I'm the D hear me ROAR" and "you're a D but not my D".

Respect should be extended to both sides of the kneel up front because they'll either sustain that respect with proper behavior or they'll fuck it up with improper behavior. Nevertheless, respect is one thing and trust is an entirely different creature that should be groomed, nurtured and cultivated into something worthy of you and your time.

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 8:31:00 AM

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I think the main problem with the whole respect issue is that the word has two quite different meanings. One being

quote:

admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

And the other being

quote:

have due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of.

The first does need to be earned, the second should be given.

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 8:56:25 AM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

I extend everyone respect immediately. Now they have the option to lose that respect... many do... or they sustain that respect by behaving in a respectful manner.

I extend courtesy, not respect. Respect always needs to be earned.

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 9:01:23 AM

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yep me too, courtesy until proven unworthy.
Respect, earned.

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 9:54:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

yep me too, courtesy until proven unworthy.
Respect, earned.

Ditto for me as far as the definitions go, at least when it comes to people.

I will be civil and courteous to everyone, until given a reason not to do so.

But the idea of respect seems deeper to me, more along the lines of esteem.

It seems that my idea of civility and courtesy is to you, respect, while my idea of respect is to you, trust.

To me, trust goes even deeper. To me it implies a deeper emotional investment than just respecting someone.

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 10:27:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

I extend everyone respect immediately. Now they have the option to lose that respect... many do... or they sustain that respect by behaving in a respectful manner.

I extend courtesy, not respect. Respect always needs to be earned.

And I think that's part of it too....people have courtesy confused with respect. I don't owe anyone respect, but I do feel that I owe common courtesy until they prove they're not worth the effort.

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 10:37:25 AM

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~FRing it~

Im another who extends courtesy, but save respect for those who earned it.

< Message edited by Danemora -- 5/6/2016 10:40:11 AM >

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 2:02:14 PM

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FR

Courtesy is how we show respect, is it not? I don't think we have to fall to our knees in order to be respectful. We just need to...kind of, not be a dick.

I just Googled some definitions of "respect" and one which particularly spoke to me is "a feeling or understanding that someone or something is important, serious, etc., and should be treated in an appropriate way." I saw some others which say that we would respect someone based on their expertise or achievements. Eh, okay. But there is one thing that I think we all have in common: everybody's a train wreck. We have all had shit to deal with and if we've been lucky enough to avoid it, it's headed our way eventually. Just the very fact that each of us is still waking up every day and facing our own personal brand of drama is deserving of respect.

Even those people that I've come across in my life that I feel are truly undeserving of my faith and goodwill (and there are very few - two, that I can think of), I can recognize that if I had the background they did, I might be the same or worse. They're dealing just as well as they can, and who am I to judge? I might want to never be around them again, but I'm not sure that means I should refuse to recognize the worth that they do have.

I don't know if I've always felt this way. It may be perspective that comes with experience, or maybe vulnerability that comes with age. I can't recall ever deliberately withholding respect just because I didn't know a person. I've gotten upset and acted disrespectfully, absolutely. But that's on me to correct, not them to earn.

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 3:23:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

The respect/trust seems to become very blurry in the lifestyle, especially with the 50 shades rush to the lifestyle.

Actually, I think it's always been blurry.

As a sub female, the number of men that have told me that I have to call them "Sir" or "Master" because I owe them that respect has been huge. And I happen to think that in that case respect is earned. You're telling me that you're qualified at something and/or have an expertise at something and demanding respect because of that. I need to see it and that takes time. After all, I could claim to be the Queen of England and tell you that you need to call me "Your Majesty" and kneel to show respect. Would you?

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 3:37:36 PM

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The reason there's such contention between those who believe that respect is earned and those who believe that respect should just be given, is because they both have different sliding scales in their heads on which they grade people, and feel that the other one is grading them on a scale that is undeserved.

'Respect earners' grade other's as follows:

Disrespect - Neutral - Respect

When they encounter somebody whom they do not yet know, these people default to grading that person as "Neutral". If they get the know the person well enough, eventually they might change the grading to "Disrespect" or "Respect", but if they don't get to know the person, they might very well forever remain in the "Neutral" category.
These people commonly believe that "Neutrals" should be treated with common courtesy, after all, a "Neutral" is by definition "common" (in the sense of not yet being 'known') and that's what common courtesy is for. They also believe that once somebody has earned "Respect" they should no longer be treated with common courtesy, but rather with a level of decorum that goes beyond mere common courtesy.
Thus, when they hear those who feel respect should be given say that they are due respect without earning it, 'respect earners' end up feeling: "Why should I treat you with a special, extra, level of decorum, beyond common courtesy, when you haven't earned that yet?"

On the other hand, 'respect givers' see respect as a binary state.

They rate people:

Disrespect <-> Respect

Which is where the issue comes in when it comes to those who rate people on a 3 grade scale: when somebody who says respect should be earned says to somebody who thinks respect should be a given "you should earn my respect" they hear: "I am currently not respected, ergo I am disrespected".
They might not think about it that way literally, but that's how they end up feeling, because they treat respect as if it's a binary state, in which, when you don't have it, you necessarily have the opposite of it.

In the end, both groups are saying the same thing though...

'Respect earners', when adapting the binary view and the definitions of 'respect givers' would agree that everybody falls into the "Respect" category, unless they show they should be moved to the "Disrespect" category.
'Respect givers', when adapting the tri-state system of 'respect earners' in which somebody is 'Unworthy - Neutral - Worthy of exceptional admiration" would agree that the random people do not fall into the "worthy of exceptional admiration" category, and instead fall into "Neutral".

Both groups mean the exact same thing. They just think of the quality of respect in different ways, and so end up feeling that the other group is being unreasonable in the way they treat respect.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 5/6/2016 3:40:49 PM >

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 4:58:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

FR

Courtesy is how we show respect, is it not? I don't think we have to fall to our knees in order to be respectful. We just need to...kind of, not be a dick.

I know yours was FR, but I did find myself not quite agreeing with the sentiment expressed. I dont quite disagree with the sentiment either though. Im courteous to my landlord, but I have absolutely zero respect for the man. So for me, there is a vast difference.

< Message edited by Danemora -- 5/6/2016 5:12:54 PM >

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 6:00:21 PM

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quote:

Courtesy is how we show respect, is it not?

No. It may be part of it, but there is more to it than just courtesy.

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/6/2016 8:27:30 PM

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Common civility is what I extend to others. It's entirely external and does not reflect how I think of them.

Like a serviceman saying Sir to a superior officer while thinking "how stupid can he be".

I don't think people automatically deserve for me to think we'll of them, to respect and admire and esteem them simply because they're teachers. There are uneducated teachers who promote creationism and claim that's true science.
There are a lot of teachers who have been proven to be pedophiles, I sure as hell don't think they deserve respect.

Trust also is earned. I don't think you can earn trust without also earning respect but you can earn my respect without me trusting you to be a good partner for me.

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/7/2016 4:15:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

The concept of earning respect has always boggled my mind. I was conditioned at a young age to respect muh elders, teachers, persons in authority etc... however I do have two disadvantages; I am a Gemini and have that hardcore Gemini sense of justice and I am year of the dog (yes, I should've been the Pope or a serial killer driving around the country killing corrupt officials).

"I was conditioned at a young age to believe I deserved to be beaten, raped, and locked in a room." Imagine someone saying that in response to you. That person was taught that people are dangerous. There are many, many people in that position - I worked with abused children in my previous life, and the flood of fear and pain tossed upon the tiniest people was heartbreaking. It's wonderful you had a more positive experience, but many people have not. We are all somewhere on the spectrum of horror to heaven that we grew up in, our personalities developed in, and our "truths" were realized in.

I extend everyone respect immediately. Now they have the option to lose that respect... many do... or they sustain that respect by behaving in a respectful manner.

This is one of the things we taught children about. Watch. Listen. Learn. Pay attention to how people behave. Are you safe with this person? (The children were often hypervigilant and filled with distrust). Automatically respecting people - even giving them "common" courtesy - can be fear inducing for many folks.

In the lifestyle I come across the "earn respect" "prove yourself" crap all. the. time. That is further compounded by the idea that D types demand respect and the very very very wrong idea that /s types do not deserve respect.

This is not crap. Dang right people need to prove themselves. The type of behaviors practiced in this community, in my mind, require that. Dom types falsely accused of inappropriate behavior, s types being bullied or abused. Of course people need to prove themselves. Heck even the people we see on a day to day basis need to prove themselves. We don't eat at restaurants that haven't been vetted by the Dept of Health. Buildings aren't built that haven't met code. We don't put money in the bank without certain safeguards. Prove yourself is a perfectly normal and important part of daily life. Even the post office has to actually get your stuff where it needs to go. Why else have tracking numbers?

Respect and trust are very very different creatures. It is easy for me to extend respect to anyone, the trust part is extremely hard to earn. However, once earned, I am loyal to the bone (just ask my leather family).

The respect/trust seems to become very blurry in the lifestyle, especially with the 50 shades rush to the lifestyle. The pendulum seems to be swinging in EXTREME ways with the respect, earn it, give it, ideas... then we see "I'm the D hear me ROAR" and "you're a D but not my D".

This is just a different hue of "I'm the boss therefore you must do as I say" which can be found in jobs, "because I said so" which parents often spout, and on the other hand, "You can't make me" or "You're not my mother!"

Respect should be extended to both sides of the kneel up front because they'll either sustain that respect with proper behavior or they'll fuck it up with improper behavior. Nevertheless, respect is one thing and trust is an entirely different creature that should be groomed, nurtured and cultivated into something worthy of you and your time.

No. Courtesy, yes. Respect, no. Come on. You know this. You meet someone and you immediately get an "ick" feeling about that person. Trust it. They do not deserve your respect. Your hackles are up for a reason most likely. Maybe that reason is that you haven't learned how to let go and trust people, but that just means you aren't ready. Saves everybody some grief. Or maybe your hackles are up because the other person is grooming you for something ugly and only your gut is telling you.

I can appreciate the sentiment here, but we are dealing with people. People are broken, harmed, confused, and sometimes habitual when it comes to interactions. We do our best, and sometimes we are lucky enough to click with others and respect, loyalty, etc. grow. And sometimes not.

Best,
sunshine

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/7/2016 4:33:16 AM

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Courtesy is like having traffic lights. It's used to help us get through the day most expeditiously. Without it, you wind up hopelessly snarled in traffic, unable to get where you're going.

That's why we wait our turn or apologize to people for not holding the door for them. Because although it's a pain to do so, the alternative of people pushing past us or slamming doors on us is worse.

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/7/2016 4:57:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Courtesy is like having traffic lights. It's used to help us get through the day most expeditiously. Without it, you wind up hopelessly snarled in traffic, unable to get where you're going.

That's why we wait our turn or apologize to people for not holding the door for them. Because although it's a pain to do so, the alternative of people pushing past us or slamming doors on us is worse.

Oh you made me laugh! Waiting our turn is such a US thing. And holding a door... I'm not sure where are all that is, but not in a lot of places I've been!

I was thinking while reading this thread how different cultures handle "common courtesy" ... "No" being considered the height of rudeness in some cultures, and the height of politeness in others.

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/7/2016 5:08:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Oh you made me laugh! Waiting our turn is such a US thing. And holding a door... I'm not sure where are all that is, but not in a lot of places I've been!

I was thinking while reading this thread how different cultures handle "common courtesy" ... "No" being considered the height of rudeness in some cultures, and the height of politeness in others.

What does waiting for our turn mean? Queuing up?
Holding doors is quite normal in my country too. I always hold doors. I've got such a habit of holding doors for everyone, I do it for male dates too. I even open car doors for them! Usually in a taxi, the guy is busy paying, I walk to his side and open the door for him.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/7/2016 5:09:25 AM >

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/7/2016 5:17:30 AM

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Yes, waiting your turn means queuing up (by the way "queuing" - entirely too many vowels!)

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/7/2016 5:28:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

yep me too, courtesy until proven unworthy.
Respect, earned.

Ditto for me as far as the definitions go, at least when it comes to people.

I will be civil and courteous to everyone, until given a reason not to do so.

But the idea of respect seems deeper to me, more along the lines of esteem.

It seems that my idea of civility and courtesy is to you, respect, while my idea of respect is to you, trust.

To me, trust goes even deeper. To me it implies a deeper emotional investment than just respecting someone.

Civility and courteousness is how I was raised. However I was also raised not to stand for any bullshit if its given.

I do esteem those I respect, There is a reason I respect them. I can respect their position,(say as a job position) and not their personality and flaws
But Trust is way deep for me. I can respect someone without trusting them with my life, except when it comes to a partner.
We all have our methods. And our own reasoning and "standards"

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RE: Sustaining respect - 5/7/2016 5:33:46 AM

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Queuing is a huge pasttime for the brits too
but this made me laugh...
inherent maybe?

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<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Duchess Of Dissent
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