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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 6:58:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
and no, a sperm cell is not a "potential life"---it is a cell which carries the genetic code that when joined with an egg cell, gives rise to life. it is a necessary step for the genesis of life, but it itself does not evolve or develop into life.

And I have explained a sperm is TOTALLY a potential life. Without a sperm, there is no baby! Period! It's impossible to have a baby without a sperm. THAT's a potential life.
Every sperm in a sperm bank is gonna turn into a baby when utilized.
It's just morphing. You are just judging it as a baby when it looks like a baby.
Men just don't wanna admit it because they wanna say abortion is murder, when wanking is murder too.
So when they do it, it's fine. WE do it, it's murder!
I mean, sperms actually can swim towards the egg. It's kinda alive! They are living things ya know! They are like a caterpillar that needs to go into a cocoon (an egg), to form a butterfly (start looking like a baby).

im judging it as a baby from the moment the zygote is formed, from the moment of conception. that is the way people who are pregnant refer to themselves. "im having a baby." not "I have a potential life inside me."

a sperm cell lives and dies and never goes beyond being a sperm cell. its alive in the sense of that a cell is a alive, but it is not a life and its not a human life.

in any event, you've not answered my other questions:

baby inside, baby outside---its still the same baby. how is it that inside the womb its a "potential life" and outside the womb its a life??

if its not alive in all the ways we understand life when its in the womb, then what is it?

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 6:59:04 PM

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quote:

pro-life men are not, on the whole, moral or practical equivalents of the Pharisees. sooo....

Oh, of course not.

quote:

but even then---exactly what burdens are men putting on who, and not lifting a finger to help them?

You seriously have to ask that?

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 7:00:15 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

baby inside, baby outside---its still the same baby.

Inside the womb, the fetus is totally dependent on its mother and, at least until a certain point, incapable of surviving anywhere else.

Outside the womb, the baby breathes his or her own oxygen and is no longer dependent on an individual woman's womb. If Mom is unable to care for the child, he or she can be placed into the arms of someone else and/or an incubator if needed. And anyone, of either sex, can bottle-feed the baby.

Without that bottle and other things that can only be provided the baby dies.
So maybe we should allow retro abortion till the kid is old enough to get a job.
If the mother nurses shouldn't she be allowed to "abort" till the baby is weaned?

< Message edited by BamaD -- 5/19/2016 7:01:25 PM >

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 7:07:17 PM

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quote:

Without that bottle and other things that can only be provided the baby dies.
So maybe we should allow retro abortion till the kid is old enough to get a job.

Oh my.

You completely missed the key point, which is that the bottle--and all sorts of other care--can be provided by people other than the mother, since the child is no longer singly and biologically dependent on her. For instance, the baby might find a home with one of the many antiabortion activists lining up to adopt preemies.

As for "retro abortion," I believe Bounty was wondering about my use of "zealots."

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 7:32:56 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Without that bottle and other things that can only be provided the baby dies.
So maybe we should allow retro abortion till the kid is old enough to get a job.

Oh my.

You completely missed the key point, which is that the bottle--and all sorts of other care--can be provided by people other than the mother, since the child is no longer singly and biologically dependent on her. For instance, the baby might find a home with one of the many antiabortion activists lining up to adopt preemies.

As for "retro abortion," I believe Bounty was wondering about my use of "zealots."

Many do, you just don't hear about them.
Can't a baby be transfered to another womb?
But the baby is not viable on it's own so it still is just a parasite.
My son was born a month early, and defies every probabilty for a premature birth.
You do know, don't you that premature birth is not even relevant?

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 7:40:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
baby inside, baby outside---its still the same baby. how is it that inside the womb its a "potential life" and outside the womb its a life??

Baby inside = no living rights yet until the host allows it to live! Baby has no rights until they touch outside the womb and evacuated from their host! Just like a sperm. A sperm doesn't have any living rights, until a man permits his sperm to go inside a woman. EXACTLY the same thing.

quote:

if its not alive in all the ways we understand life when its in the womb, then what is it?

I feel like your argument for how sperm is not a life, but a baby is a life, is solely because the sperm cannot survive outside of the man's body? What do you think happens to a 3 month old baby when pulled out of the womb alive? It dies too, because it cannot survive outside of the host body. EXACTLY the same scenario as sperms.

So let's put it this way. Removing the baby is not murder. It's just removing it from the the host body.

IF the baby dies as a result of being exposed to earth oxygen or whatever, that's the baby's problem. It was not murdered. They simply detached it from the host body. It's not being murdered. It's like a sperm unable to survive regular elements. And that's life!

So if a 7 month old baby was removed, and it survives, and then it got intentionally killed by other ways, that's murder.

But a 3 months old baby who die their natural death after being removed from the host. That's a natural death.

So it's only a life AFTER it actually starts being able to live in this world. Breath and live and survive in regular earth elements.

The host is not obligated to keep hosting the baby. The men essentially deposited HIS baby in tadpole form, into a host who does not want to have mutated sperm into a baby inside of her! She has the right to remove it from her body. If that baby survives, great, adoption. If it dies, because it can't breathe. That's not the host problem. As it's an unwanted intrusion in her body and she's not obligated to keep hosting it.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/19/2016 7:47:51 PM >

(in reply to bounty44)

RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 8:06:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigjb62
I grew up in poverty and despite the fact that it wasn't an easy life I wouldn't have wanted to be an aborted (murdered) baby and anyone who thinks an unborn child is better off dead because they might live an impoverished life is a fool.

I am sure you never lived it to the severity like African kids or south east asian kids. Where they are terribly malnutritioned, homeless and begging on the streets. Some with limbs amputated to look more pitiful to get more money. I would say they all should've been aborted to spare them such a life. Where are all the huge availability of adoptive parents for them?

American poverty is definitively nothing like poverty in any third world country.
Never the less these people are making the decision to have children they can't take care of and it still doesn't warrant killing an innocent child.
I also have no doubt that there plenty of couples here in the US that would adopt them but some countries make that nearly impossible if not totally impossible.
There is even a movement here that wants to keep white people from adopting black babies.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/19/2016 8:53:34 PM

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quote:

Can't a baby be transfered to another womb?

Pardon?
Not if it is already implanted in the womb no
you gonna rip out her placenta?
What the ever living fuck
You can take an embryo, yeah, but implanted in the womb already...wow...

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 5/19/2016 8:54:18 PM >

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 3:47:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
you want to suggest that people working (in whatever capacity) to prevent unborn babies from being killed are fanatics?

I find it extremely irresponsible for people who do not want to take personal responsibility in taking care of that unborn baby, to block it from being killed.

Who-ever wants it alive better personally take care of it!

I think their efforts would be more useful is making sure that those who didn't abort, and abandon their child, they should focus their efforts on making such every life that makes it is gonna be okay.

They already do, they are called adoption agencies and located all over the country.

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 4:58:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
Are you okay with the taxpayer supporting unwanted babies until such time as they can fend for themselves?

So, your essential point is that we should kill the fetus because someone might have to pay for it?

No, my essential point is that none of you twits insisting that all lives matter are volunteering to put your hands in your pockets to help provide an alternative to abortion.
If you're opposed to welfare spending, insisting that unwanted children are brought to term seems rather pointless.

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 5:01:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

Can't a baby be transfered to another womb?

Pardon?
Not if it is already implanted in the womb no
you gonna rip out her placenta?
What the ever living fuck
You can take an embryo, yeah, but implanted in the womb already...wow...

Wasn't there an experiment in raising an embryo in a tank (Ie, outside of the monther) that the Religious Right pissed and moaned about until it was shut down back in the late '60s or early '70s?
Not sure what trimester that would have been in, but it does cast an interesting claim on the argument that all human life is sacred and should be preserved, at least until it's been born.

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 5:08:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

im judging it as a baby from the moment the zygote is formed, from the moment of conception. that is the way people who are pregnant refer to themselves. "im having a baby." not "I have a potential life inside me."

Interestingly enough, many choose not to say that until at least the 12th week.

You judge it as a "baby" from the moment the zygote is formed.

That's ok, for you.

I happen to judge it differently. I believe that life doesn't begin until you pay tax for the first time. Prior to that the thing you're referring to is just a parasite. And I would heartily agree with any proposed change in the law that allowed a mother to abort up until that moment.

Of course neither you nor I agree, so there must be a middle ground.

Since the generally accepted middle ground is viability of the fetus outside the womb, I'm ok with that. How about you?

Naturally, I don't expect you to be able to exercise the flexibility of thought to meet me in the middle - even if the logical premise of my definition of the point that life begins is every bit as valid as yours.

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 5:16:45 AM

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well Louise Brown was the first TT (IVF) baby in 78
So it wouldnt surprise me.
It would have to be very very early on because the embryo needs to implant in a womb to stay viable, to build the placental mass, I am not down with the latest methods, but it is still done within days of conception. Thats why they freeze them.

By the way, Forcing women to give birth is against the law, the constitution and human rights.
A fetus "rights" do not supercede the mothers rights. NO matter how much people want to displace women altogether.
It cant be done.
Yet.
The lack of any knowledge in this arena is dangerous. The mouth dropping ignorance of " Transferring to anothe womb" is patently the result of a fucking idiotic education

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 5:23:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
By the way, Forcing women to give birth is against the law, the constitution and human rights.
A fetus "rights" do not supercede the mothers rights. NO matter how much people want to displace women altogether.
It cant be done.
Yet.

Well, that's what all of the whiney little rightards in this thread are pissing and moaning and stamping their feet about, isn't it?
(I love the spectacle of a gang of Violet Elizabathe Botts trying to pass themselves off as tough minded realists who confront things that the liberals are too scared to admit, while they're thcweaming and thcweaming until they're thick in the throes of a tantrum, don't you?)

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 5:54:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Since the generally accepted middle ground is viability of the fetus outside the womb, I'm ok with that. How about you?

WIth regards to this part of your post Crazy...
Yesterday OKlahomas legislature passed a bill making it a felony to perform abortion.
Other states have tried to pass bans on abortion at 6 weeks, and at 12 weeks, to which the SCOTUS has refused to hear.
This particular bill is not likely to get as far as even that.
It doesnt stop them trying, it doesnt stop them using clinic ridiculous regulations, for the width of gurneys etc, even where the clinics only offer the "morning after pill" No other surgical or medical procedures done, there is no gurney needed.

It doesnt stop women from seeking choices, it doesnt stop the need for a safe legal abortion or other choices. But it harms a lot of women(and men) who have nowhere else to look to for sexual healthcare. And if they are already pregnant, they have to wait until the bills get thrown out, by which standard, may be too late for them.

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 3:32:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

What's not true? Islam is truly a religion made up by a war mongering warlord and the left is heralding majority Muslims as peaceful. To me, following the ways of a warlord who enjoyed waging war IS not peaceful. Same logic as you accusing Boi of supporting a racist song or singer or something?

Fucking laughable, like most of your "claims"

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 3:34:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

No you lying fuckwit, it's not. And it won't be no matter how many time you lie and claim it is. Now if all you can do is tell lies about people perhaps its time to crawl back under your rock and shut the fuck up

Your reply about a racist song says more about you than I ever could....... Many thanks.

My reply wasn't about a song, it was about an ignorant lying troll. Who not surprisingly just lied again.

Still deflecting, or trying to, from you defending a racist song then.............. Duly noted.

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 3:49:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

it looks pretty "plain and simple" to me that it involves the purposeful taking of an innocent human life and in the overwhelming majority of cases, right thinking people would classify that as murder.

that that doesn't occur across the board is evidence of the polluted liberal thinking in general, and of the pro-abortion position in particular.

By jove Bounty must have nailed it. It would seem no one on the right has ever had an abortion. Its just a leftist plot.

FFS Bounty, who ate all the pious ?

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 5:03:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

No you lying fuckwit, it's not. And it won't be no matter how many time you lie and claim it is. Now if all you can do is tell lies about people perhaps its time to crawl back under your rock and shut the fuck up

Your reply about a racist song says more about you than I ever could....... Many thanks.

My reply wasn't about a song, it was about an ignorant lying troll. Who not surprisingly just lied again.

Still deflecting, or trying to, from you defending a racist song then.............. Duly noted.

And you are still lying and claiming I ever defended the song. But I notice in all this time you haven't come up with a single link where I did. But that's sop with you, isn't it.

and to save you time, you little link didn't show anything but you and dom ken trying to convince everyone else that thug somehow equates to black. Now maybe in your sick twisted little mind it does. But that doesn't change the fact that you are a lying little troll who can't admit when he has made a mistake. Nor does it change the fact that I NEVER defended that song. It was as sick and twisted as your logic and I could never defend that kind of hate.

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RE: London elects Muslim as Lord Mayor - 5/20/2016 5:54:59 PM

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quote:

It was as sick and twisted as your logic and I could never defend that kind of hate.

Did you point out at the time how sick and twisted you thought the song was, THB? If you did, I'm sure that this disagreement between PS and yourself could finally be put to rest.

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