The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gentleman, you be fucked

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The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gentlem... - 9/3/2016 7:43:55 PM

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I have been working on a non-fiction book (might even be considered humor/irony.)

Now, if 55 years, I have learned a few things about women, things that men need to know.

1) If you are the 'niceguy' that every woman can talk to, confide in, cry on your shoulder, you are fucked.

Seriously, if you have a female friend that always comes to you when her current boy friend turns out to be an ass, jerk, and general douche, and you have been trying to set up a change in your status with her, you are not going to get anywhere. If she comes to you to cry and moan about the flaws in the guy that she just found out has been cheating, or whatever, you are forever stuck in the friend zone.

To put it bluntly, if you ever heard the words "Why cant I find a guy like you." you will never be anything more than the big brother or shoulder to cry on.

To be quite blunt, she does not want a guy like you, because then she would not be able to bitch about the men she goes out with.

In other words, dont be so nice.

The last woman that said that to me, I calmly looked her in the eye, and said, "Bitch I have been listening to the same crap for 10 years, and I have been right here, you really did not need to search for what was in front of you."

I then turned up the ball game and proceeded to stop listening to the latest verse of the "poor me" saga.

_____________________________

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You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/3/2016 8:51:41 PM

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Actually, it sounds to me as if the bigger problem is that you aren't fucked.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/3/2016 11:33:10 PM

MAINEiacMISTRESS

Posts: 1180
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have been working on a non-fiction book (might even be considered humor/irony.)

Now, if 55 years, I have learned a few things about women, things that men need to know.

1) If you are the 'niceguy' that every woman can talk to, confide in, cry on your shoulder, you are fucked.

Seriously, if you have a female friend that always comes to you when her current boy friend turns out to be an ass, jerk, and general douche, and you have been trying to set up a change in your status with her, you are not going to get anywhere. If she comes to you to cry and moan about the flaws in the guy that she just found out has been cheating, or whatever, you are forever stuck in the friend zone.

To put it bluntly, if you ever heard the words "Why cant I find a guy like you." you will never be anything more than the big brother or shoulder to cry on.

To be quite blunt, she does not want a guy like you, because then she would not be able to bitch about the men she goes out with.

In other words, dont be so nice.

The last woman that said that to me, I calmly looked her in the eye, and said, "Bitch I have been listening to the same crap for 10 years, and I have been right here, you really did not need to search for what was in front of you."

I then turned up the ball game and proceeded to stop listening to the latest verse of the "poor me" saga.

I disagree with this. I can't stand jerks or males that have bad attitude, and I've only ever been attracted to the gentle, helpful, "Mr. Nice Guy" type. Perhaps it is because I've got a sadistic (and often mean) streak of My own, and nice guys bring "balance" to the relationship, (even diffusing stressful situations because they tend to be a bit calmer) rather than bringing constant conflict as a "Bad Guy" would. Of course, I know some "Mr. Nice Guys" actually DO things on purpose just to get their gal "riled and truly stoked"...and then grin and tell her she's beautiful when she's angry (with her eyes on fire, her hair wild, and her skin aglow). Nice guys seem to be braver in that respect, since many of them I've met enjoy playing with fire. Bad guys usually prefer submissive women who don't cause any conflict, probably for the same reasons, or other reasons I won't go into here. Opposites attract, and all that jazz.

I personally honestly don't know how women stuck with the "Bad Guy" bossy type manage to keep themselves from lighting him on fire as he sleeps, or at the very least keep themselves from lacing his dinner with Dulcalax the night before his important business meeting, (presuming they are the ones doing the cooking).

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 1:20:00 AM

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YES...nice guys come in last.

Far too many women want the bad boy I have heard described to my face as the college boy or young professional with 6-pack abs and a gift of gab and that gets them started. Then after he snares her...the fun begins.

These guys chase and catch almost every other woman they want, then 'first' woman comes crying to her friends just as you describe above.

At this late date and for many more years than I care to recount, my involvements have been and are...on MY terms. I tell them upfront there WILL be other women and if they don't like it...take a walk. That's when I actually discovered some bi women who tell me, the more women...the merrier.

In fact, I was just left in chat for the last time by a beautiful younger woman who told me, I was...too much the gentleman. I told her fine, go out and get all of vanilla assholes and dickheads she wants. So your timing here Jlf is noteworthy.

I say let them have their liars, blowhards and compulsive players and when on the rare occasion, they ever come back to me, they truly then...pay the piper. In fact, I've had inquiries from the ones I left back east and I tell them by all means, come to Vegas knowing full well that if they do it's only...on my terms.

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(in reply to MAINEiacMISTRESS)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 1:30:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

1) If you are the 'niceguy' that every woman can talk to, confide in, cry on your shoulder, you are fucked.

Seriously, if you have a female friend that always comes to you when her current boy friend turns out to be an ass, jerk, and general douche, and you have been trying to set up a change in your status with her, you are not going to get anywhere. If she comes to you to cry and moan about the flaws in the guy that she just found out has been cheating, or whatever, you are forever stuck in the friend zone.

To put it bluntly, if you ever heard the words "Why cant I find a guy like you." you will never be anything more than the big brother or shoulder to cry on.

You are so fucking wrong! I am fucking all my nice guys. Especially the guy who is like my big brother and gives me his shoulder to cry on. I been fucking him for 4 years and he is my BFF. We just can't be together as I don't really enjoy sex with him. But I fuck him, because he is always there for me when I need him and he enjoys sex with me, so I give it.

Anyway, we have a relationship where we are both honest with each other. So I told him many times, we are not sexually compatible. And he agrees with me. There is mutual agreement on that aspects of things.

I can also moon to him about how wonderful my best sex is, and is all okay! He is my shoulder to whine on and cry on! And he is getting laid.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 9/4/2016 1:34:32 AM >

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 2:20:10 AM

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Just because a woman wants the nice guy doesn't mean she also wants the packaging he comes in. I have many male friends that I get on with as friends, and a guy like them would have been ideal in my life, except for the fact that there is no physical attraction at all.

It also works the other way around too. It's not just a woman-to-guy thing.

Needles

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RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 3:33:01 AM

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You men whining about nice guys finishing last miss the point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

Just because a woman wants the nice guy doesn't mean she also wants the packaging he comes in. I have many male friends that I get on with as friends, and a guy like them would have been ideal in my life, except for the fact that there is no physical attraction at all.

It also works the other way around too. It's not just a woman-to-guy thing.

Needles

This, for example.

There is also the fact that many "nice guys" are really being nice to try to trade for better benefits. Women feel this, and it kills any possibility for sex.

Add to that, that many men think that being nice means tamping down on all of their sexual aggression and masculinity, which again—guess what?—removes any/all chances for sexual attraction.

In fact, I wrote about this over 7 years ago, and there is a number of articles and books about "Nice Guy Syndrome," Just look it up.

Nice Guy Syndrome

So a thread on FetLife about “Nice Guys” got me thinking. The topic was whether women would date a nice guy. It’s funny, because my immediate gut reaction is “No,” yet I know that my boyfriend is a nice guy. Yes, he is also a bad boy, but that (and why those two things are not incompatible) is a discussion for another day.

So, why the instinctive flinch when I think about nice guys? Why is “nice guy” a death knell when applied to men? I think I have at least part of the answer.

First of all, I’d like to say that there are good and bad sides to the Nice Guy (from here on in I will refer to this subset of the male species as NG, not to be confused with HNG, or “horny net geek,” which is a different subset entirely), and sometimes the good is exactly opposite of the bad. Of course, as it often does, the bad is what stereotypically defines the NG, and makes a woman hate the idea of dating such a person.

I’ve created a comparison chart to show the differences that I can see. NG refers to the Nice Guy subset in the bad range of behaviors, while GG will refer to the “genuine” nice guy who falls primarily into the good range of behaviors.

NICE GUYS FINISH LAST

This is the pathetic whine of the entitled NG who feels that by saying X words and performing Y tasks, the woman (women) of his dreams should automagically adore him, instead of the “misogynistic conceited asshole” she’s dating now.

On the opposite end of the spectrum is the GG, who understands that everyone has different preferences, and just as he does not adore every potential partner that comes his way, neither will the women in his life. He also realizes that not every other man in the world is a misogynistic asshole, just because he gets the girls. His philosophy is two part:

You win some, you lose some.

Friendship is more important.

FALLING HARD AND FAST

I have written an entire post on this subject previously because of an experience with an NG, but I will keep this short. NGs tend to fall hard and fast for “the girl of their dreams,” most often without regard for her thoughts and feelings in the matter, and usually without truly getting to know her well.

This “love at first sight” is based primarily on external factors such as looks, public personality, and overall impressions. Sometimes it is also based on the unattainability of said girl, or her attachment to/friendship with the “anti-NG.”

This “love” is expressed through various methods, which on the surface resemble the genuine article, but ring false because they truly have no substance behind them, such as:

Jokes. The NG uses a joke to express his need/want/desire/unhealthy obsession, so that if a woman were to reject him, he can claim he was just joking.

Wildly flowery words. The NG uses praise and (often) public adoration to woo. Unfortunately, these exhortations are not genuine and if rebuffed, often turn snarky. Eg., Monday: My passion flower, the star in the heavens that lights my night. Thursday: Crazy bitch.

Buying love. Many NGs resort to buying attention from women. Taking them out to dinner, offering to support them and getting them pretty gifts, often way too early in the relationship. The women who mistake these things for true love often find that these men would rather buy them a diamond ring than actually pay attention to their feelings.

The GG, on the other hand will take the time to get to know a woman (even the “woman of his dreams”) before presuming that he is in love. Even if he feels “love at first sight,” he is likely to announce that later - much later - because he is not interested in pressuring anyone into a relationship with him.

I HAVE TERRIBLE LUCK WITH WOMEN

This is the hallmark of the NG. Most, if not all of the women in his past have taken advantage of him. They have taken money, cheated on him, abused him, strung him along, and/or left him for an abusive asshole, all because he was “too nice.”

The GG realizes that some people are just not made for each other and that it takes two to tango. Some of his past relationship mistakes are his fault.

NO, REALLY, MOST GUYS ARE ASSHOLES

NGs hate the women that scorn them. Even more, they hate the men they scorn them for, even if they never had a chance with that woman to begin with.

Men who are successful with women are reviled or, in a weird twist of fate, sometimes adulated…

In kind of a sick, twisted guy-crush way, many NGs have “The Guy” whose cast-offs he takes whenever possible, or whose girlfriends are always sweet and loveable (and unattainable). He attaches himself to this man either as a best friend or sometimes from afar. He studies what this man does to emulate his tactics, to replicate his success with the distaff gender to no avail. He has the words, but not the substance.

NGs are insanely competitive with other men, sometimes openly, sometimes in a very sneaky way.

GGs tend to get along with men and women alike, basing their friendship on actual qualities and behaviors, rather than sex appeal and snap judgments. They are comfortable with men in relationships and out of them.

I WOULD NEVER TREAT YOU LIKE THAT

NGs are there for you when you need to talk about your current BF. They listen and support you, and tell you what an asshole he is and how he doesn’t deserve you.

You see, NGs secretly believe that deep down inside, if you would just give him a chance, he would never let you down. He doesn’t realize that you are not out searching for a backup plan, and even if you are, it probably won’t be him.

Any man who hurts you hurts you because he’s an asshole, a misogynist, inconsiderate, self-centered (the list goes on), not because sometimes everyone makes mistakes or because people in relationships argue sometimes and that’s just the way it goes.

You see, the NG would be the perfect mate because, well, he is just so darn nice.

GGs understand that you just want to vent and to talk. They do not use every argument you have with a man as a chance to drive a wedge between you or to get into your pants. Even if they adore you, that’s just not their style.

PEOPLE SHOULD LIKE ME FOR WHO I AM

This is one of those big lies that has a small kernel of truth in it. Yes, in general people should love you for who you are. However, that does not mean you cannot improve.

NGs don’t like to hear suggestions or criticism. Actually, 99.99% of people don’t like it, but NGs HATE it. You see, their egos are so fragile that they can’t stand to hear that they are not perfect just because they are nice.

GGs often get that way because they take it to heart when people say they can improve, and they do – whenever it falls within their value system.

WASN’T THAT CONCERT WONDERFUL?

NGs have this way of trying to develop a relationship based on the most tenuous of connections. For example, you are out with girlfriends at a concert, and see the NG, say hello and chat for a few moments. Now you are best friends, because you share that experience, that love of SmashBand.

Even better, NGs will look for any chance to drag this newfound connection out in front of everyone, going on and on about how much you both enjoy x and so, or letting you know he just got the new whatever, and you should get together and share it.

GGs look for things in common to build a bridge of friendship and common ground to you and from you. If they do mention it in front of others, it will be casually, not as the focus on a conversation designed to make you notice him.

HE GIVES YOU THE WILLIES

NGs get a bit creepy sometimes. In the lifestyle, we see this particular phenomenon most often in creepy subs. There are Creepy Doms, and they share this trait, but not the rest of the NG traits… and that is another subject for another time.

It’s hard to put a finger on it, but it is often one or several of the following things:

They get too close, invading personal space. They do not see you flinch or tense.

They ask intimate questions that they have no right to ask, and get pissy when you prefer not to answer. (“Because we are both adults here,” or “It’s all in innocent fun.”)

They make sly insinuations, giving people the wrong impression about your relationship.

They try too hard, they laugh too loud at your jokes, and/or they agree too often.

If any of these things are pointed out, it is turned around to be YOUR fault. You are being either self-centered or paranoid or both.

GGs would be appalled and apologize if they were told that they were doing any one of these things, much more so if they were told they had done them in combination.

YOU SENSE HIS BITTERNESS

NGs are kicked around by women. They make a point of telling you so. What they don’t tell you, but you can often sense a deep level, is that they have secretly condemned all women based on their experiences, and are as misogynistic as (sometimes more misogynistic than) the average woman-hating asshole.

If you listen, you can probably hear it in his tone of voice when he talks about how women have treated him in the past and are treating him in the present.

You can hear it when he triumphantly proclaims the demise of the relationship his ex left him for “I knew it wouldn’t last. She never should have left me for that asshole.”

You can hear it when he turns on you because you did not live up to his fantasy of accepting him just because he is a nice guy.

IT’S NOT ENOUGH

All in all, what NGs don’t understand is that being a nice guy is not the be-all, end-all. It is something that is expected in addition to other important qualities. Proclaiming what a nice guy you are just makes me want to ask, “So what?” I expect any person I choose to interact with to be “nice.” It’s the other personality traits that make you stand out.

IT’S NOT JUST THE MEN

Yeah, I’ve been calling them nice guys, but ladies, this applies to us, too. Nice girls are just as bad, sometimes worse. NGs (nice guys/nice girls) use their niceness as a shield to protect them from having to do or be better, from having to learn social interaction, from having to actually pay attention to others, from being honest with themselves, from creating true relationships, and most of all from having to take any blame for the things that go wrong in their relationships with others.

IT’S NOT JUST YOU

As I’ve written this, I’ve spotted behaviors that I have been guilty of in the past, and a few I will probably be guilty of in the future. Now that I have them written, it’s easier to see my own flaws, and to hopefully correct them as I go, so I can be more GG and less NG.

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(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 3:54:26 AM

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I definitely think Nookie's onto something with the argument about entitlement. (Passive-aggressive whingeing isn't all that "nice" either.)

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RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 5:40:35 AM

Kana

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quote:

There is also the fact that many "nice guys" are really being nice to try to trade for better benefits. Women feel this, and it kills any possibility for sex.

This.
Ten thousand times this.

Which is as it should be because the attempted nice guy stutter step ninja style is about the sleaziest move a fucking guy can make.
A-It's dishonest and deceptive;
B-It's uber fucking manipulative;
C-Its fucking creepy sliming up next to a girl on the pretenses of caring when in reality all the guy wants is a piece o ass;
D-It denigrates her by presuming that she's too fucking dumb to see through the charade; and
E-The sexiest thing to most women is confidence(Note I said confidence, not being a pretentious fuck or an overbearing presumptive asshat). The nice guy stutter step is passive aggressiveness taken to the nth degree and its the exact fucking opposite of being confident.

Look folks, this is easy shit.
I don't know about you, but when I meet a girl, at some deep internal level, pretty much the first thought that, completely unbidden and without any effort or consideration thereof, crosses my mind is, "Would I want to fuck her."*
How I react to her afterwards is 100% predicated on the answer to that question.
But if you like a girl, tell her.
It doesn't have to be point blank, "Man, do I want to bone your hot ass!" but in general, if I am looking and the answer is yes, I make sure she knows I'm interested real fucking quick.
Like double time.
Because I don't want to get shoved in that friend box (Which is almost impossible to escape from, despite a thousand Hollywood movies to the contrary).
I let her know in no uncertain terms that I have a sexual interest.
I want her to know I'm a predator and that the sights are locked on her.

Fuck. One never knows. She may just be sitting on the same feelings re me and if I don't make that move, something that could have been spectacular could just pass us both by.
One unerring rule of life is that you miss 100% of the shots you never take.

Have some guts. Develop some cojones. Grow some Balls and tell the snatch what you really feel about her.
Yeah, she may say no. But that's better than spending a decade sniveling around like a begging dog hoping she notices what a 'great guy' you are...which, BTW, you aren't, because real Great Guys (Patent pending) don't treat women like that.
And it's far far better than being the insurance policy for her to fall back on if things don't go well, more time spent being an emotional tampon.

The truth is that she doesn't want an asshole.
She wants a guy with the guts to sack up and be honest about how he feels and what he wants.

Fuck folks, Women don't want a man that can understand them-That's impossible. They want a Man that understands himself, his wants, his needs, and his desires.

And if things don't work out and she has no interest or says no, then you can decide if you really want to be friends on an honest level.

But friends don't become friends based on false motives and deceptive behavior. Psychopaths and manipulative fucks do. But not friends, because friendship should be rooted in healthier shit than that.
Any friendship based on Good Guy Syndrome is a lie and a farce since the guy is acting out of toxic motives.

Just sayin'

*And before you wenches give me too much shit about this, studies have shown the same thing happens to women, ecept they think 'kiss' instead of 'fuk"

< Message edited by Kana -- 9/4/2016 5:44:31 AM >

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(in reply to WhoreMods)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 7:20:04 AM

Posts: 14840
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You know, I had been listening to the same saga about my friend's bad choice of guys since her divorce.

I have heard the latest story at 3 in the morning, both on the phone and in person.

And that line "Wish I could find a guy like you." is out and out bullshit.

10 years, 8 guys, same story, and that same fucking statement.

Now considering that I started this in a humor thread which has now turned into a major serious discussion, let me continue with more bullshit lines that come out of the mouths of women.

"Its not you its me"

"Correct me if I am wrong." This is a dare, she does not want corrected. You could have a library of proof that she is wrong, and she is not going to accept it.

To continue, around here you have attractive girls running around in skin tight shorts or yoga pants with some smart saying written across the butt, then they bitch because guys are staring at their ass.

Hey stupid, you dont want your ass to attract attention, then dont have something written on it. The human brain is wired to look at stuff that is written. Where a fast glance might be normal, write something on a nice butt, and that fast glance turns into reading which takes a bit longer.

Not to mention that half the time we are trying to figure out if it is actually clothing or body paint.

Or the women who wear bikini tops to a grocery store that are actually made for women with smaller breasts, then bitch about the stares.

Got news for you woman, when your breasts are barely covered and those strings are threatening to snap, we are gonna look, partially for the obvious reasons and partially because of the simple engineering and threat assessment. Most of the guys around here have seen what barbed wire does when it snaps because it was pulled too tight, and most of us are quite adept at using a bull whip. When those straps break, we are curious about the damage it is gonna do.

Sorry but 38DD tits in a top for a 34 b cup is a physics experiment waiting to fail.

There is an old saying, long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to be interesting.

But bitching because guys are staring at your tits when you barely have the nipples covered is stupid. If the woman didnt want the damn things noticed, she would have covered them better.

Of course, there is the one woman from my army days.

She damn near had an orgasm looking at my pristine 67 camero ss convertible that I had painstakingly restored. She was always begging for a ride.

So the one day I took her for a ride, it was 98 degrees, humid (Georgia is like that) and of course I had the top down.

She bitched about what the wind was doing to her hair.

But the real kicker is the woman who complains "You never take me anywhere nice."

And the time you do take her to the nicest place for 300 miles, she bitches about the prices.

This is of course after you have heard the complaints about the 'nice' places you took her to that had reasonable prices.

Then there is the girl you have dated three times who decides that it is time for her to put her stamp on your home/apartment, even though she has never spent the night.

How about the woman who, knowing you are the athletic type, knows you play for the company baseball team, knows you play football with the guys every weekend afternoon, knows you hunt, camp, fish etc.

She complains about you never including her in this part of your life, but when you do, complains you do not pay her enough attention while you are participating in a team sport, trying to catch a fish, or trying to off set your grocery bill by putting meat in the freezer.

Of course, the complaints about being cold in a deer stand/blind or the fact you will not let her play her music at rock concert levels while fishing.

Or the woman that swears she loves horses, then bitches because the stable smells, and the time it takes to curry and comb as well as the other routine things after a long day of riding.

Not to mention the five minutes you spent laughing your ass off because she showed up to go riding wearing five inch stilleto heeled boots.

Ladies if you want to date a real cowboy, you better understand just what that means.

Now there is the personality type that applies to both sexes.

The person who on the date spends the entire time talking about exes.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Kana)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 7:44:04 AM

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TL;DR

Oh. So this was just a misogynistic whine post a la respectmen. Gotcha.

Carry on.

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(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 8:39:39 AM

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NookieNotes, +10000

(in reply to NookieNotes)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 9:20:08 AM

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Nookie, Kana: You rock! Thanks for some great food for thought.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to markyugen)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 9:25:36 AM

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Now, lets put the shoe on the other foot.

The inspiration for this thread was actually a conversation that involved my sister, one of my oldest friends, and myself.

Now Cynthia is the daughter of two of my best friends from high school. I was the guy that taught her how to take an engine down to a bare block and rebuild it (give her dad a wrench and he uses it like a hammer.)

So anyway.

She was talking about a coworker who was giving her the male version of the story I opened with, of course with the question "Why cant I meet a girl like you?"

I spat out an answer before she gave her response.

"If you go to bars to pick up sluts, that is all you are going to meet."

Cindy responded with "EXACTLY!"

Then we went on about the various examples that I have brought up.

Now, to counter the "Correct me if I am wrong." point there is Cynthia's point about the guy that looks up and says, "Can I get your advice?"

Then looks at the woman like she grew a third arm from her forehead when she gives it, followed with "I didnt mean I actually wanted it."

Dude, if you did not want the advice, why ask for it?

Cynthia then told us about a guy that she had been dating (operative word 'had') who claimed to love gardening. So, back in the early spring she asked him to help prep some flower beds.

He showed up at her house wearing $90 dollar slacks, $150 dollar shoes and with a white shirt and sport coat.

She actually managed to get a picture of his face when she explained what prepping flower beds entailed.

She spent the day getting dirty, he bitched about the flies, the smell of the fertilizer and everything else the day entailed.

Basically she gave the male counter point to my examples.

Of course, I actually expected the women on these boards to do the same thing.

I mean come on ladies, have you not seen a male example of everything that I have stated.

But, to be honest, guys can be a bit more screwed up.

Lets take the guy who is involved with the proverbial 12 on a scale of one to ten. He buys her clothes that show off just how drop dead gorgeous she is. He wants to show off the woman of every man's dreams (or every guy like him.)

Then goes batshit crazy when she is the center of attention for every guy in whatever place they happen to be in, blows a gasket when she replies to a compliment in a near jealous rage.

I mean, what the hell does he expect?

Of course, taking her to a dive bar where every guy in the place is looking for a piece is not smart either.

Or how about the guy that drops $500 on dance lessons to impress a girl with his skills on the dance floor and still ends up stepping on her toes to the point of an ER visit.

Look if you cant dance, say so, dont try to become Fred Astaire in 5 weeks.

And while it acceptable to bring your precious Harley into the living room for a complete overhaul, it is not acceptable when you do not put down plastic under canvas to protect the hardwood floors.

Guys, if you cant understand why she is raising hell for the oil on those 200 year old oak floors, you have to be brain dead, or a complete idiot.

This was Cynthia's ex husband.

Now granted, after the divorce, I earned a grand redoing the floors, including going to find oak that I could match the spots to damaged to sand and refinish.

Another point here guys.

You have lived with this woman for 40 years. She has told you umpteen thousand times silk shirts do not go into the washer.

Hell, you have a damn high IQ, you are an electronics/computer genius. You read Homer and Shakespeare for relaxation.

Read the damn tag on the damn shirt!

(this is the weekly argument between Cynthia's parents.)

As for the sports thing.

Cynthia is the ultimate sports nut, outdoors type.

Fast pitch softball or baseball (she can throw a 115 mph fast sliding curve,) football, soccer whatever. She was dating a guy that complained bout her spending her weekends (during league play evenings) and wanted included.

Turns out that he was the male version of the woman who bitched about not being included.

Okay, now Cynthia has met a great guy, into cars (just not classic iron) and they have a lot to talk about.

He broke up with her when she whipped his ass on the quarter mile beating his bmw with her classic mustang. Now, granted I was surprised to see this happen until it turned out that while this guy knew the capabilities of his car, but had no idea how to actually get the desired results.

FYI, the BMW warranty does not cover tranny damage when you go from fourth back to first at 90 while red lining the engine. To put it bluntly he missed the shift badly.

Of course, the fact that Cynthia has trophies for her wins on the amateur circuit drag racing street cars might have given the guy a clue he was way out of his league.

Cynthia brought up the clothes guys wear when I brought up the stuff I have seen women wearing lately.

She mentioned a guy that she saw in a bar that she goes to sometimes after work. Now it is a nice place, not a dive, but then not a place to order a 90 buck bottle of champagne either.

This guy was wearing pants that clearly showed off his junk. They were also so tight, that according to her, nothing would have worked anyway, due to loss of circulation.

I pointed out that if they were that tight, he was probably sterile.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to NookieNotes)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 10:19:09 AM

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Very good post there from Nookie Notes with a lot of good points.

The sense of entitlement that you can sometimes detect from men who act nice complaining about women's choices reminds me a little of men with money thinking that buying things makes the other person obligated to them in some way. Sort of like they have turned "niceness" into a currency that they can buy other people's affections with. This is not actually nice. Also if someone has built up a lot of resentment due to failures in their life then this may lead to unhealthy attitudes and behaviours, and someone like this may not be a good person to get emotionally involved with.

Helping people who need help is also emotionally satisfying and empowering for the person helping. Most people feel good about themselves after doing it, so this can still be a selfish act even if the help is genuine, especially if it comes at little cost to the helper. Some people have rescue fantasies of being the knight in shining armour riding in on their white charger to save the damsel trapped in the tower, and a rescuer always needs a victim to rescue. It is all about them and not about you.

I guess that it boils down to whether the caring behaviours that are demonstrated come from genuinely caring or are a manipulation attempt. Genuinely caring is nice and manipulation never is. It's not always easy for the other person to tell which it is unless they know the other person well and also have some life experience under their belt Anyone who has been on the receiving end of manipulative behaviour will be suspicious of behaviour that reminds them of it.

There is nothing wrong with treating people with respect, being polite, helpful and understanding and generally not being a dick.. This is what I think most people would call "nice", and it is the polar opposite of the manipulative passive-aggressive "nice guy act" that some people do.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 10:57:52 AM

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Again, TL;DR.

I saw something about shoe on the other foot and man examples.

Why would we use your whiny post to complain? I'm pretty sure we are perfectly capable of creating our own posts, if we so desire. And no, I don't whine about not getting laid because I'm too nice, or because some dudebro lied to me about whether he knew what clothing to wear. I move on.

Because, you know, adult.

But again, you're obviously needing to get something off your shoulders, so carry on. I'm sure someone will totes commiserate with you.

_____________________________

Nookie
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(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 11:56:04 AM

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Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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Nookie, you clearly have no concept of exchange of humor, or you are intentionally trying to be a bitch.

I mean hell, the funniest thing I have seen lately were two comics doing a point/counter point humorous debate on everything from dating to the differences between male and female doctors.

And the fact it was in Polls and other random stupidity should have been a hint, at least to most.

I mean in one long dead thread "Holly and Potty show" there were ten pages debating the proper way to put toilet paper on a roll, along with a number of pages that were basically "you might be OCD if..."

Hell the biggest thing for male comics is to talk about some of the stuff that women make a big deal about but, men for the life of us, cant figure out why.

I mean what is the big deal if you go to a party and see a woman wearing the exact same dress?

Or closet space? I have seen women with closets the size of a damn bedroom and the first thing out of their mouths when they walk in is "I have nothing to wear?"

How about that finger digging in a guys back at 3 in the morning to ask a question that clearly could have waited till the sun was up?

Seriously, I have a lot of female friends that I am basically the big brother or surrogate father to, and I have no problem with it.

But when you have heard the same damn saga about poor boy friend choices at least twice a year for 10 years and then she drops the "why cant I find a guy like you." on you, give me a break.

IF she really wanted a nice guy, she would find a nice guy. Lets face reality, guys are not that hard to read. If deep down inside he is a scheming bastard looking to get laid, it will come out.

And when she has been warned by the women she hangs with, me, the guys that go to the same places, I mean DUH!

And quite frankly, the idea of a humorous thread about the pros and cons of the dating scene, was I thought a good idea. When you consider the fact that everyone of us has had some experience with some real winners (sarcasm if you dont know) is long over due.

Consider it an alternative to the "messages from the other side" thread, or compliment of it.

However, there is something I want to get off my chest.

Too many on this site are so fucking serious that it is not even funny. Male and female alike.

It seems that everything you (for example see posted) has to be taken seriously.

Polls and Random stupidity should give you the hint that serious was the last thing on my mind.

To put it another way, its kind of like the last scenes of Close Encounters of the Third kind.

The government built this super secret facility to meet the aliens.

The aliens are flying a ship that is a VTOL craft.

And what do the brains do, turn on runway lights!

All that was needed would have been the equivalent of a helipad.

Anyone that has watched the movie could see it was an attempt at humor, but some science types seem to have missed it.

And to be honest, the "why cant I find a guy like you" is not original, at least six comedians have done variations of that over the last 20 years, including Robin Williams, Dennis Leary, and George Carlin.

Each with their own twist on the response.

However, many guys have heard the line to the point it rates up there with the question, "Does this dress make me look fat?" or "my butt big" etc. It has become a staple of the comic routine.

Then there are the stories that go around about the guy who bought his wife, girlfriend etc a stun gun for protection and decided to try it out on himself.

There is a variation of the story about the cowboy who tries to catch a deer to raise in captivity.

Then of course, there are those humans who are incapable of seeing the humor, or even interacting with it. And to be quite honest, you folks are the funniest of the lot.

I mean, it is so easy to bait a trap on message boards, and you can pretty much know who is going to take the bait, even when you go out of your way to make anyone with a decent sense of humor the clear hint that it was meant in jest.

So, thank you nookie, for doing what you do best.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to NookieNotes)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 12:26:48 PM

Posts: 52
Joined: 8/30/2016
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I never been called a nice...guy. At least to my face...

Good post Kana, Nookie...

(in reply to jlf1961)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 1:53:35 PM

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Joined: 7/30/2005
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Quite a post NookieNotes but after reading it all, it falls prey to the same problems most of what seems the 'professional' assessment which yours surely seems to be.

Far, far too many presumptions about the so-called 'NG' so I am not buying it. Some of it is relevant but it assumes far too much of the NG attitude and directly from or on the basis of his success or failures and not on what he and others can witness and come to know about the victimized woman...looking for love in all of the wrong places.

The main problem with such presumptions is that the observer during these relationship successes or failures is all about or at least, far too much about the presumed failures of the NG.

There are ways you do not treat people...ANY people and all too often because the victim of such bad behavior and even outright cheating in a relationship is a woman, all of those presumptions about the then presumed failures of the NG, start to rear their meaningless head.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/4/2016 1:55:36 PM >

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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(in reply to ThundersCry2U)

RE: The flaws of being Mr. Niceguy or, if you are a gen... - 9/4/2016 6:15:22 PM

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Many people, both male and female, have an unerring ability to walk into a crowded room and immediately select the one person who will be the worst for them.

Not only is this true for all those women you're complaining about, but for you as well, because these are the women you choose to spend time with.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to MrRodgers)

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