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RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/29/2016 11:06:24 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta
I meant I don't get what point you were trying to make about the groupies when you brought them up, it seemed just sort of tossed in there; not the general unawareness of wolf's groupies.

By it, I meant the blame and shame game started almost immediately. Some people jumped on the bandwagon so fast it made my head spin. Folks who have no more of an idea than you or I slammed this gal (whoever she is) almost immediately. Some going so far as to say she planned the whole thing as a set up.

Truthfully, if something bad happened to her, I hope she's not on Fet anymore to hear some of the awful things people have said. And, seeing that kind of stuff doesn't exactly encourage victims to come forward. That stuff happens repeatedly in our kink communities.

When I called them "groupies," it's because it's how I see it. He's got his detractors, but he's got his fans, too. He wouldn't be a so-called "Fetlebrity" if people didn't enjoy his writings, pics, etc. Some folks are basing their conclusions *because* of his popularity, and that's going to screw the next person who comes along who doesn't dare come forward because D-type X is a teacher, presenter, writer, or any other thing. We're showing people exactly what they should be afraid of. No one will believe you. It's your fault. Why did you do this? Why didn't you do that?

It's a horrible way to handle this kind of stuff.




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Alecta)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/29/2016 11:38:25 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32561
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

~FR~

It's really very simple:

Consent was given. We know that for a fact. The alleged victim admits it.

However what it comes down to is: Was consent at any point withdrawn and the withdrawal of the consent communicated to The Wolf in a manner understandable by him? (If you agree to rape play where 'no' and 'stop' are negotiated to be ignored, you cannot at that point withdraw consent by saying 'no' and 'stop'... that's exactly why we have safewords.) And IF consent was withdrawn, and that withdrawal communicated, did he continue after the withdrawal?

If consent was not withdrawn, it wasn't rape.
If the withdrawal of consent was not communicated to The Wolf, it was not rape.
If The Wolf stopped as soon as the withdrawal of consent was communicated to him, it was not rape.

The only way this was rape is if it was communicated to The Wolf that consent that was previous given was withdrawn and he ignored it and continued... and none of us here know if that happened or not.

Aside from my little mini-rant there, (thanks to all for the patience) there are a couple of things that are bugging the crap out of me about it. (Technically, three.)

One of them is, why did this investigation take so long? Fourteen months seems like one heck of a stretch, wouldn't you think? Even if they interviewed every, single person that might have seen them together when the evening was going.... Ummm... Well. What it really comes down to is what happened between them. Mostly, that's whatever physical evidence they had, (whatever it is) her statements, and his statements. I know this case wasn't "front burner" material, but fourteen months?

Two, I keep seeing the same quote being reiterated by other people that came from one of T_W's writings about how he "misread" someone. I couldn't say if the timing matches, but I do question it. If it's about the same instance, and he "misread"? We've got a whole new ball game.

My technical third. It's never been my impression that law enforcement appeals to the public for "more information" unless they've got leads that they can't finish. The 99% of the time that gets wasted is just hoping for that 1% payoff.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 12:15:14 AM   
littleclip


Posts: 869
Joined: 5/31/2012
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it is always a sad time when a leader is brought to the courts. not knowing of all the details of the investigation being arrested just shows there is enough to justify the arrest the trial is where the accused can rebut the evidence and until the court gives its decision there is no reason to jump to conclusions. i would rather stand beside our leader in support till a verdict is made.

_____________________________

currently owned by LadyAthena15805
i will always come to the call of those i love


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 12:27:50 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip

it is always a sad time when a leader is brought to the courts.

Leader??

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to littleclip)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 7:29:14 AM   
Greatlilbabygirl


Posts: 786
Joined: 9/9/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip

it is always a sad time when a leader is brought to the courts. not knowing of all the details of the investigation being arrested just shows there is enough to justify the arrest the trial is where the accused can rebut the evidence and until the court gives its decision there is no reason to jump to conclusions. i would rather stand beside our leader in support till a verdict is made.

Leader? Hahahahahahahaha. Are you serious?

(in reply to littleclip)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 7:44:21 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip

it is always a sad time when a leader is brought to the courts. not knowing of all the details of the investigation being arrested just shows there is enough to justify the arrest the trial is where the accused can rebut the evidence and until the court gives its decision there is no reason to jump to conclusions. i would rather stand beside our leader in support till a verdict is made.

Leader? Hahahahahahahaha. Are you serious?

Probably.
In this context, "leader" is often used to mean "somebody in the perv community the vanilla scum might have heard of before they were picked up by the police". Pathetic, isn't it?

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 8:10:59 AM   
dsfordummies


Posts: 4
Joined: 8/27/2015
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I have always understood that Common Law is the basis for prosecutions of BDSM-related "crimes..... one reference can be found here....

https://litigation-essentials.lexisnexis.com/webcd/app?action=DocumentDisplay&crawlid=1&doctype=cite&docid=21+Cardozo+J.L.+%26+Gender+631&srctype=smi&srcid=3B15&key=6cbb0df67ef679b214506349dc8bc532

In other words, you do not have the right to allow yourself to be a victim of sexual assault......and your consent to it means nothing. We are all in the United States, commiting a crime when we play....I recall that point being made over and over at a forum held at a local event.

Mr. Madison left that one off the Bill of Rights :)

As for this "leader".....apparently, it does not always pay to play "follow the leader". All of the self-righteous folks beating him up however would suffer the same fate if local police acted on their ability to enforce the law.

I attended a large play party in a southern city years ago, and was talking to one of the organizers outside of it and a police car pulled up with 2 officers in it. The organizer excused himself a moment and walked to the cruiser, passing something from his pocket to the officer.
When he returned I asked him what that was all about - he simply shrugged and said "$200.00 for each officer .....Common Law can be a bitch...it's insurance."

He explained it to me and I later that year attended this forum and found that he was indeed, 100% right. Is it enforced much? No....definitely not...CAN it be?...it appears the answer is..."yes".

If I am wrong about that someone please offer the exceptions.









quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

~FR~

It's really very simple:

Consent was given. We know that for a fact. The alleged victim admits it.

However what it comes down to is: Was consent at any point withdrawn and the withdrawal of the consent communicated to The Wolf in a manner understandable by him? (If you agree to rape play where 'no' and 'stop' are negotiated to be ignored, you cannot at that point withdraw consent by saying 'no' and 'stop'... that's exactly why we have safewords.) And IF consent was withdrawn, and that withdrawal communicated, did he continue after the withdrawal?

If consent was not withdrawn, it wasn't rape.
If the withdrawal of consent was not communicated to The Wolf, it was not rape.
If The Wolf stopped as soon as the withdrawal of consent was communicated to him, it was not rape.

The only way this was rape is if it was communicated to The Wolf that consent that was previous given was withdrawn and he ignored it and continued... and none of us here know if that happened or not.

Aside from my little mini-rant there, (thanks to all for the patience) there are a couple of things that are bugging the crap out of me about it. (Technically, three.)

One of them is, why did this investigation take so long? Fourteen months seems like one heck of a stretch, wouldn't you think? Even if they interviewed every, single person that might have seen them together when the evening was going.... Ummm... Well. What it really comes down to is what happened between them. Mostly, that's whatever physical evidence they had, (whatever it is) her statements, and his statements. I know this case wasn't "front burner" material, but fourteen months?

Two, I keep seeing the same quote being reiterated by other people that came from one of T_W's writings about how he "misread" someone. I couldn't say if the timing matches, but I do question it. If it's about the same instance, and he "misread"? We've got a whole new ball game.

My technical third. It's never been my impression that law enforcement appeals to the public for "more information" unless they've got leads that they can't finish. The 99% of the time that gets wasted is just hoping for that 1% payoff.




(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 8:12:42 AM   
dsfordummies


Posts: 4
Joined: 8/27/2015
Status: offline
Sorry about that....double-posted :)

< Message edited by dsfordummies -- 10/30/2016 8:15:46 AM >

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 9:12:30 AM   
Greatlilbabygirl


Posts: 786
Joined: 9/9/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip

it is always a sad time when a leader is brought to the courts. not knowing of all the details of the investigation being arrested just shows there is enough to justify the arrest the trial is where the accused can rebut the evidence and until the court gives its decision there is no reason to jump to conclusions. i would rather stand beside our leader in support till a verdict is made.

Leader? Hahahahahahahaha. Are you serious?

Probably.
In this context, "leader" is often used to mean "somebody in the perv community the vanilla scum might have heard of before they were picked up by the police". Pathetic, isn't it?


Supremely. Especially the part about sticking by this so called leader. I owe him no allegiance, the very thought is laughable. Just like others in this thread have thrown the alleged victim under the bus because she should have known "what she was getting in to," Well Mr. Lupine Rape Fantacist should have known his brand of play comes with the risk of actually raping someone and he isn't above consequences no matter how many other times he got lucky. Boo hoo, how the leader falls. House of Cards and all that.

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 9:34:21 AM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl
Well Mr. Lupine Rape Fantacist should have known his brand of play comes with the risk of actually raping someone and he isn't above consequences no matter how many other times he got lucky.

Funny how those who want to blame the victim for not knowing better always seem to ignore that the accused should have known better as well.

You roll the dice, you take your chances. He has had to deal with trouble for this exact thing before, you think he would learn how to avoid these types of circumstances.

But then its the young, inexperienced girls that he goes after that should shoulder the blame. Why should anyone expect him to learn from his experiences?

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 10:21:32 AM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
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@LP when I use "if" I mean "if". so if the qualifying situation is untrue, it does not apply.

"14 months investigation", horrible as it sounds, just means "it has been 14 months since this was reported". It also includes the time someone spent researching the legal viability of taking this thing to court, the amount of time it took for the evidence to be processed, etc. Date rape cases are low priority on the timeline because you already know who did it and the crime will not cause continuing public harm. Priority investigations are usually priority because of those two reasons, and of course political pressure. There's a lot more political pressure about date rape and bdsm related crimes in the USA than Australia. 14 months from reporting to filing for court is not bad given the context, IMO.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 10:55:15 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32561
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

@LP when I use "if" I mean "if". so if the qualifying situation is untrue, it does not apply.

"14 months investigation", horrible as it sounds, just means "it has been 14 months since this was reported". It also includes the time someone spent researching the legal viability of taking this thing to court, the amount of time it took for the evidence to be processed, etc. Date rape cases are low priority on the timeline because you already know who did it and the crime will not cause continuing public harm. Priority investigations are usually priority because of those two reasons, and of course political pressure. There's a lot more political pressure about date rape and bdsm related crimes in the USA than Australia. 14 months from reporting to filing for court is not bad given the context, IMO.

Believe it or not, I'm still in the "if" category, too. I haven't convicted this guy in my own head.

But I've seen this kind of thing before. There are certain folks in kink who hit a certain level of popularity in the kink crowd. Certain play space owners, (leather) title holders, organizers, producers. If *that's* the person how harmed you, heaven help ya. The way some people get treated because their complaint is against a "name". I might yack.

Please understand. My comments here are not directed 'against' you. I just get fed up with things I see time and time again.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Alecta)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 11:39:43 AM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
There are certain folks in kink who hit a certain level of popularity in the kink crowd. Certain play space owners, (leather) title holders, organizers, producers. If *that's* the person how harmed you, heaven help ya. The way some people get treated because their complaint is against a "name". I might yack.



I think the same holds true in any circle, not just in kink, and my main discontent is that the same is extnding to anyone claiming to be a victim: as in just claim to be a victim, not whether the evidence points to them really being so.
I find it ridiculous to extend the protection we give to victims to those who make themselves victims either because they want the status (and attention etc) or because they've figured out that by crying victim they won't have to take responsibility for themselves. The way people are completely absolved of all wrong-doing by pulling the victim card... It erodes at the credibility of actual victims. It's exploitative of the systems intended for actual victims. And while we're all fawning over these types waving their victim cards around, it takes resources away from looking for the actual victims.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 1:21:06 PM   
littleclip


Posts: 869
Joined: 5/31/2012
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by leader is someone in the forefront or noteworthy

_____________________________

currently owned by LadyAthena15805
i will always come to the call of those i love


(in reply to Alecta)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 1:49:25 PM   
Greatlilbabygirl


Posts: 786
Joined: 9/9/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip

by leader is someone in the forefront or noteworthy

Regardless, that doesn't entitle him to loyalty just because he has notoriety.

(in reply to littleclip)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 1:55:33 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
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No dear, it's the other way around. A leader is a leader because they have the loyalty and trust of the people he leads, not the other way around. If you do not trust him, agree with him, or feel and solidarity with him, he is not your leader. And the people who are loyal to him doesn't have to be people you agree with or like, either. Transylvanians were fiercely loyal to Vlad the Impaler. Doesn't mean you have to be.

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 2:01:48 PM   
Greatlilbabygirl


Posts: 786
Joined: 9/9/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

No dear, it's the other way around. A leader is a leader because they have the loyalty and trust of the people he leads, not the other way around. If you do not trust him, agree with him, or feel and solidarity with him, he is not your leader. And the people who are loyal to him doesn't have to be people you agree with or like, either. Transylvanians were fiercely loyal to Vlad the Impaler. Doesn't mean you have to be.

Are you one of his admirers?

(in reply to Alecta)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 2:03:34 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
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No, just not a fan of your rhetorics.

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 2:09:06 PM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9361
Joined: 11/4/2015
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I am...I point blankly refuse to lead/enable the blind *see i really do scatter myself about all of time/internet*

Now, we have a bit of lost colony reference going on in the handsome turmoil of me

BSG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXh9XaFJzvw battle wise I alays prefered
B5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSa6Zl8fcyo
music wise SG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYldBHQw3s4

Asylum was the best - okay season six is rather awesome too- her Scottish accent was pish btw but the Saturn thing made me laugh

Roanoke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roanoke_Colony

(in reply to Alecta)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 2:32:22 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline
If people follow you, you are a leader. Regardless of whether or not you are doing anything to lead them, regardless of whether or not you're worth following. If you have no-one following you, regardless of how good or noble you are, you are not a leader. It just means people want to follow you. Doesn't say anything about whether you're a good person.

(in reply to WickedsDesire)
Profile   Post #: 60
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