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RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 2:37:33 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip

by leader is someone in the forefront or noteworthy

Wrong, a leader, in this context, is anybody with followers.

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RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 3:17:59 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip

it is always a sad time when a leader is brought to the courts. not knowing of all the details of the investigation being arrested just shows there is enough to justify the arrest the trial is where the accused can rebut the evidence and until the court gives its decision there is no reason to jump to conclusions. i would rather stand beside our leader in support till a verdict is made.

Leader of what, exactly? Who?

There are lots of people who do not consider that man a leader, and are in fact repulsed by what they know about him, from his own writings. You might want to clarify the 'our' in the future, because I see no one on this board who has indicated that they share your feelings.

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RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 4:20:42 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip

by leader is someone in the forefront or noteworthy

Yeah, no, but nice try.

If you want to make it look like you're not just stalking your ex, try coming up with some better material next time to make it look like you're actually participating in the thread and not just following her around from thread to thread trying to catch her eye.

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RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 5:06:33 PM   
Greatlilbabygirl


Posts: 786
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

No, just not a fan of your rhetorics.

Wtf? What are you going on about? Rhetorics? Huh?

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RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 5:38:28 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta
Only if you don't agree to let them decide. If you agree that they should be the sole decider of what is and is not ok then that's consent.

Alecta, I am saying that, IF a dominant says that. It's a red flag. Obviously you wouldn't agree to no safe words. So what happens is that, he says, okay, let's not do bdsm. Let's just have vanilla sex. No safe words needed as it's vanilla. Let's build trust first. As he don't do BDSM with safe words.
Then later he could make it bdsm once you are already naked and together. Being the stronger party and having you in his domain.

I think especially for beginners, I am just saying, be very careful of dominants who try to persuade you to play with him without safe words.
And usually they will claim their 15 or 20 yrs of experience, that no safe words is needed. These are all red flags.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/30/2016 5:40:03 PM >

(in reply to Alecta)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 5:49:06 PM   
Alecta


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And I was saying that if they proceed to say "i will decide what is and is not okay" and you agree that he can and would decide, that's giving consent and you should be aware when you agree to that "I will decide" statement that you are agreeing to let him do whatever he wants, not stupidly smile and nod because your hormones are on fire, because that is not a valid excuse for later claiming "I didn't know what I was agreeing to" to a statement as plain and clear as "I will decide what is and is not ok, not you". Regardless of their years of supposed experience.... and anyway, those years of experience mean nothing unless they are with you.

I'm of the opinion that the safeword for anything vanilla is "stop" and "no".

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 7:33:05 PM   
littleclip


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the worst part of this is that all those that want to see bdsm as wrong will do so refusing to see all of those who spend many hours researching to give classes to educate the new members how to play safely. they will remember this person far more that the many more who receive recognition and awards. even if he is exonerated of the charges the lifestyle will bear the blight of the story and have to have much more positive interactions to counter this one event

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RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/30/2016 11:34:49 PM   
Greta75


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That's not gonna happen LittleClip.
Bad guys exists in all types of Leaders!
People are smart enough not to put all of them into the same basket. This would not jeopardise the reputations of Kink leaders who have spent time trying to educate and share their knowledge on kink.

If they are genuine and sincere in sharing their knowledge and education, most people can feel the energy and can tell the guy is genuine.

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RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/31/2016 6:24:40 AM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip

the worst part of this is that all those that want to see bdsm as wrong will do so refusing to see all of those who spend many hours researching to give classes to educate the new members how to play safely. they will remember this person far more that the many more who receive recognition and awards. even if he is exonerated of the charges the lifestyle will bear the blight of the story and have to have much more positive interactions to counter this one event

Another reason why this person is should not be viewed as a leader, as you are wont to do. Stating that he is gives him credibility and supports what may or may not have done that has gotten him into this situation.

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RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/31/2016 6:27:31 AM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

That's not gonna happen LittleClip.
Bad guys exists in all types of Leaders!
People are smart enough not to put all of them into the same basket. This would not jeopardise the reputations of Kink leaders who have spent time trying to educate and share their knowledge on kink.

If they are genuine and sincere in sharing their knowledge and education, most people can feel the energy and can tell the guy is genuine.

Greta, its not so much about people in the kink community changing their minds about others because of this, which is what I am getting from your response. Its more a matter of this is getting attention in the vanilla world, and those that already have a negative view of bdsm will feel validated by this. Just more reason for people to see it as abuse and as a taboo.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/31/2016 6:50:56 AM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
Its more a matter of this is getting attention in the vanilla world, and those that already have a negative view of bdsm will feel validated by this. Just more reason for people to see it as abuse and as a taboo.

Oh THAT!
Well, that is never gonna change for a long time. I mean the super conservative will always be not okay with this.

Just like some religious people will never accept homosexuals no matter what. I wouldn't worry about those.



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/31/2016 6:51:28 AM >

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/31/2016 6:52:52 AM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
Its more a matter of this is getting attention in the vanilla world, and those that already have a negative view of bdsm will feel validated by this. Just more reason for people to see it as abuse and as a taboo.

Oh THAT!
Well, that is never gonna change for a long time. I mean the super conservative will always be not okay with this.

Just like some people will never accept homosexuals no matter what. I wouldn't worry about those.



Its a real concern, at least for me. I was actually outed at work last month and lost a job I have held for 15 years. So, yeah, I worry about those.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/31/2016 6:55:53 AM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
Its a real concern, at least for me. I was actually outed at work last month and lost a job I have held for 15 years. So, yeah, I worry about those.

Sorry to hear that!
I mean, most of us would definitely lose our jobs including me, if my boss knew I was into this lifestyle. It's definitely not something especially in my country you could live openly with.
So I guess it would make no difference because that's their general perception at the moment, and reality of the matter is, it is very difficult to tell if someone is a real predator or not when it comes to these things when it comes to the law and trying to protect the innocent. As it's hard to determine if it's consensual or not, since some consensual BDSM can get quite rough up.

So the nature of BDSM, makes it difficult to protect victims. And I don't really see it ever being fully accepted.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/31/2016 7:04:48 AM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
Its a real concern, at least for me. I was actually outed at work last month and lost a job I have held for 15 years. So, yeah, I worry about those.

Sorry to hear that!
I mean, most of us would definitely lose our jobs including me, if my boss knew I was into this lifestyle. It's definitely not something especially in my country you could live openly with.
So I guess it would make no difference because that's their general perception at the moment, and reality of the matter is, it is very difficult to tell if someone is a real predator or not when it comes to these things when it comes to the law and trying to protect the innocent. As it's hard to determine if it's consensual or not, since some consensual BDSM can get quite rough up.

So the nature of BDSM, makes it difficult to protect victims. And I don't really see it ever being fully accepted.

One of the reasons it is so hard to handle predators in the community and protecting the innocent is because of the negative perceptions. People don't come forward and talk about being assaulted, for fear of being outed themselves. Communities have to police themselves, which means that some predators will always be protected. It is hard to investigate something properly without the cooperation of people involved, and the people involved won't cooperate because of the fear of backlash. If we could get past that, get things at least a little more out in the open, it would be much easier to ensure a safe community.

But like you, I agree that it will never be fully accepted.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/31/2016 7:06:38 AM   
littleclip


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Wayward5oul
its not so much about people in the kink community changing their minds about others because of this, which is what I am getting from your response. Its more a matter of this is getting attention in the vanilla world, and those that already have a negative view of bdsm will feel validated by this. Just more reason for people to see it as abuse and as a taboo.
[/quote]
yes exactly

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/31/2016 9:08:29 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32561
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
Its a real concern, at least for me. I was actually outed at work last month and lost a job I have held for 15 years. So, yeah, I worry about those.

Sorry to hear that!
I mean, most of us would definitely lose our jobs including me, if my boss knew I was into this lifestyle. It's definitely not something especially in my country you could live openly with.
So I guess it would make no difference because that's their general perception at the moment, and reality of the matter is, it is very difficult to tell if someone is a real predator or not when it comes to these things when it comes to the law and trying to protect the innocent. As it's hard to determine if it's consensual or not, since some consensual BDSM can get quite rough up.

So the nature of BDSM, makes it difficult to protect victims. And I don't really see it ever being fully accepted.

One of the reasons it is so hard to handle predators in the community and protecting the innocent is because of the negative perceptions. People don't come forward and talk about being assaulted, for fear of being outed themselves. Communities have to police themselves, which means that some predators will always be protected. It is hard to investigate something properly without the cooperation of people involved, and the people involved won't cooperate because of the fear of backlash. If we could get past that, get things at least a little more out in the open, it would be much easier to ensure a safe community.

But like you, I agree that it will never be fully accepted.

Unfortunately, I just "lost" a post because not saving the detailed thing I had written. Now, I'm doing the quick version.

I would IMPLORE people to read the data breakdowns of the surveys conducted during 2014 by NCSF. The data that was acquired is such a valuable resource that I can't begin to tell you it's worth.

While I don't consider T_W to be a "leader" by even the most simplistic definition, when one of the surveys asked responders the "who" part of the person who violated their consent, A FULL 20% said it was a leader. Munch organizer, presenter, producer, member of staff, etc.




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(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Major BDSM practitioner arrested for Rape - 10/31/2016 7:27:09 PM   
littleclip


Posts: 869
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a major practitioner as the thread states but as this has occurred it is still a blemish on the lifestyle that those who want to see it as something wrong will point out. it goes along with the teflon and velcro effect our views have on how we see things. for things that concur with our views they will be acknowledged and remembered(velcro) as the things that dont fit what we want to see are ignored(teflon) so even if there are 100 positive things those that want to shout that the lifestyle is bad will only see the one thing and even if the individual is exonerated the mark will still be there and have to be surmounted so that the rest of us can show how it is a very accepting and open lifestyle. with much to be learned from by the rest of society

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Profile   Post #: 77
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