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BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 11:51:56 AM

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Oklahoma Cop Who Killed Terence Crutcher Found Not Guilty Of Manslaughter

The list of victims of racial injustice grows longer. Here was an unarmed black man with his arms raised standing besides his car (indisputably high on drugs) gunned down and killed by yet another law officer arriving late at the scene and feeling threatened. Never mind that other officers were already in control of the scene. This Janey-come-lately claims Crutcher was reaching into his car to get a weapon. No weapon was found. It took the jury nine hours to find a way to justify the killing despite the fact the event was on tape. Was he reaching into his car window? Nine hours. Oh, he must have been. Well, maybe. Nine hours. Yeah, I guess he did.

Not saying, have never said, all cops are bad or that policing is not a dangerous profession. But, the bad cops are seldom convicted, if ever brought to trial.

The tiny number of convictions in fatal police shootings looks even smaller when you consider just how many cases the criminal justice system considers each year. Although there are no reliable government statistics on civilians killed by police, data compiled independently last year by outlets like The Guardian and The Washington Post, or civilian tracker Mapping Police Violence, have led to estimates of roughly 1,000 deadly shootings each year.

Of that total, prosecutors and grand juries around the nation each year have determined that around five of these cases involve misconduct worthy of manslaughter or murder charges. And in the end, the criminal justice system typically concludes that only around one shooting each year is consistent with manslaughter or murder. SOURCE

I agree with those who argue that police are likely to have more confrontations in a high crime neighborhood. But this incident took place on a highway in broad daylight with other officers already on the scene.

Is it not understandable why people of color have little faith in the protect and serve mission of the local police?

Is their rage not understandable?

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 12:34:37 PM

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If black lives mattered so much - then why is it that a predominant number of black homicides are perpetrated by other blacks?
Also - considering that Blacks perpetraters account for over ~50% of the homicides per year... that means blacks also kill more whites on average too.

What's more - while there is an estimate of ~1000 lethal shootings by police each year in 2016 specifically - there where roughly 260 blacks lethally shot by police officers...
so what is that other 740? Well, ~500 of them are whites... So shouldn't we be more concerned about the Whites as they are killed at roughly twice the rate then blacks by police?

I find it some what saddening that MLK's dream continues to go on unrealized, not because of white oppression, but because of BLM.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 12:39:55 PM

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Why is it that the predominant number of white homicides are perpetrated by whites?

You get pissed off and kill people you know. That works for all humans.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to InfoMan)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 12:58:17 PM

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you realize the implied premise of your post is that the cop would not have been acquitted had the victim been white?

or alternatively, that the victim never would have been shot to begin had he been white?

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 2:08:51 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you realize the implied premise of your post is that the cop would not have been acquitted had the victim been white?

or alternatively, that the victim never would have been shot to begin had he been white?

I also noticed that he never said one way or another if the "victim" was reaching into the car, or if he was warned not to. Both of those things would have a major influence on the verdict.

I am not saying the cop was innocent butI find what we wern't told as important as what we were.

His narrative of what (in his mind ) the jury deliberation was indicates that he was reaching in the car for something, we don't know what, but should the cops take the chance ?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to bounty44)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 2:44:17 PM

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FR

On that other forum we got an ex-cop in NYC who claims to never have killed anyone, but did beat a few who resisted. He is Black. He also seems to be tough, and some cops are.

The ones who are not are the ones who do not belong in that job. They are insecure and they might be looking for revenge on society because they got picked on as a kid or something. Plus there is always the possibility of bigotry. Some are genuinely more apprehensive with Blacks, especially BIG Blacks who could kick the shit out of them because their physical training is quite inadequate. Look at many of the cops beating the suspect stories, it is not one on one, mano a mano, it is five cops kicking a guy on the road who is handcuffed.

I am surprised that a cop took a jury because they usualy do better with a judge. When you go to trial in most states you must demand a jury or the case is decided by the judge, who will rule in favor of the cop. Perhaps the law is different there. I do not know.

But the bottom line here is that these bad cops, or those who are scared and insecure and shoot first, must be removed from the force. Things like this increase tensions between the LEOs and the public, and I don't mean just the Black public. That guy they shot in bed, he was White. That guy with a knife they wasted 41 rounds on was White.

This is the kind of shit my Greatgrandmother talked about about the old country, Tito for example. Paternally, my people left Poland to escape Soviet rule. My paternal Grandmother was German and had no use for them and a Polack marrying a Kraut was unheard of.

But now that the US is as corrupt as all that, there is nowhere to flee. They told me you don't own anyting there. Well go to FEAR.ORG and have a look at their content. What's more, you do not own property unleess your family bought it before 1700 something. You hve never owned a car unless you go to the factory and buyit for cash and get the MSO, and you cannot get plates until you surrender the receipt and cede it to the state and accept their certificate of title.

The old country followed us here.

Kill whoever you want, if their family gets after you it is not my problem. If I kill anyone it will be because they are robbing me. Don't rob me and live.

Blacks do commit more crimes, but that is no excuse. It is not a "nigger hunting license". Just cufff him and stuff him, have your day in court.

And you have to weed these bad apples out of law enforcement. To not do so is going to get alot of cops killed. Then we will have to pay them more than the President and they don't even walk a beat like they used to. A simple loud stereo call can turn into two dead cops.

Whoever is a cop in here, do not cover shit up. Every time you do you move closer to death. The revolution is not going to come by a frontal assault, it will come in the streets. And go ahead and roll those tanks, WTF good will it do you ? Kill them all and nobody will be paying taxes to pay your salary.

You shall reap what you sow.

T^T

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 2:53:29 PM

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One cannot wreck wreckage

any binnts on here?

(in reply to Termyn8or)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 3:04:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I also noticed that he never said one way or another if the "victim" was reaching into the car, or if he was warned not to. Both of those things would have a major influence on the verdict.

I am not saying the cop was innocent butI find what we wern't told as important as what we were.

His narrative of what (in his mind ) the jury deliberation was indicates that he was reaching in the car for something, we don't know what, but should the cops take the chance ?

The 'victim' was standing next to a police cruiser when the officer drew her weapon on him. At this point he put his hands in the air... he then turned and slowly walked 20-30 feet away from the officer to the driver side door of his own vehicle ignoring the police on scene for a solid 20 seconds. Although every video is obscure from that moment forward the testimony implies that he was trying to open the driver side door of his vehicle despite the now 3 guns being pointed at him commanding him to stop.

I think that is the largest influence on the verdict...

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 3:11:48 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I also noticed that he never said one way or another if the "victim" was reaching into the car, or if he was warned not to. Both of those things would have a major influence on the verdict.

I am not saying the cop was innocent butI find what we wern't told as important as what we were.

His narrative of what (in his mind ) the jury deliberation was indicates that he was reaching in the car for something, we don't know what, but should the cops take the chance ?

The 'victim' was standing next to a police cruiser when the officer drew her weapon on him. At this point he put his hands in the air... he then turned and slowly walked 20-30 feet away from the officer to the driver side door of his own vehicle ignoring the police on scene for a solid 20 seconds. Although every video is obscure from that moment forward the testimony implies that he was trying to open the driver side door of his vehicle despite the now 3 guns being pointed at him commanding him to stop.

I think that is the largest influence on the verdict...

Is this the female officer case?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to InfoMan)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 3:17:58 PM

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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

If black lives mattered so much - then why is it that a predominant number of black homicides are perpetrated by other blacks?
Also - considering that Blacks perpetraters account for over ~50% of the homicides per year... that means blacks also kill more whites on average too.

What's more - while there is an estimate of ~1000 lethal shootings by police each year in 2016 specifically - there where roughly 260 blacks lethally shot by police officers...
so what is that other 740? Well, ~500 of them are whites... So shouldn't we be more concerned about the Whites as they are killed at roughly twice the rate then blacks by police?

I find it some what saddening that MLK's dream continues to go on unrealized, not because of white oppression, but because of BLM.

By your numbers to be racially equal there would need to be over 2000 whites killed by cops. there being 8 times as many whites as there are blacks.

Law enforcement as a rule is being allowed to shoot first (even kill) and ask questions later.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to InfoMan)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 3:19:22 PM

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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you realize the implied premise of your post is that the cop would not have been acquitted had the victim been white?

or alternatively, that the victim never would have been shot to begin had he been white?

Yep, very likely.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to bounty44)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 3:22:40 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I also noticed that he never said one way or another if the "victim" was reaching into the car, or if he was warned not to. Both of those things would have a major influence on the verdict.

I am not saying the cop was innocent butI find what we wern't told as important as what we were.

His narrative of what (in his mind ) the jury deliberation was indicates that he was reaching in the car for something, we don't know what, but should the cops take the chance ?

The 'victim' was standing next to a police cruiser when the officer drew her weapon on him. At this point he put his hands in the air... he then turned and slowly walked 20-30 feet away from the officer to the driver side door of his own vehicle ignoring the police on scene for a solid 20 seconds. Although every video is obscure from that moment forward the testimony implies that he was trying to open the driver side door of his vehicle despite the now 3 guns being pointed at him commanding him to stop.

I think that is the largest influence on the verdict...

I looked up the case.
It looks really bad for the cop.
That said his insisting on ignoring directions and get something (an undifined object) out of his vehical created reasonable doubt.
Race may well have no part in this verdict.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to InfoMan)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 3:31:56 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I also noticed that he never said one way or another if the "victim" was reaching into the car, or if he was warned not to. Both of those things would have a major influence on the verdict.

I am not saying the cop was innocent butI find what we wern't told as important as what we were.

His narrative of what (in his mind ) the jury deliberation was indicates that he was reaching in the car for something, we don't know what, but should the cops take the chance ?

The 'victim' was standing next to a police cruiser when the officer drew her weapon on him. At this point he put his hands in the air... he then turned and slowly walked 20-30 feet away from the officer to the driver side door of his own vehicle ignoring the police on scene for a solid 20 seconds. Although every video is obscure from that moment forward the testimony implies that he was trying to open the driver side door of his vehicle despite the now 3 guns being pointed at him commanding him to stop.

I think that is the largest influence on the verdict...

I did check the case.
I am not convinced that she is innocent.
However he disobeyed directions and tried to get something out of his vehical.
We don't know what he was after, but we do know he was on PCP so he was more dangerous than a man with a gun.
This may well have created a legitimate reasonable doubt.

While it was not known that he was on PCP it was, according to the op, clear he was high on something.
It was far less clear that he didn't have a weapon in the car.
And BLM was certainly after him.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 5/18/2017 3:53:42 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to InfoMan)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 3:32:30 PM

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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you realize the implied premise of your post is that the cop would not have been acquitted had the victim been white?

or alternatively, that the victim never would have been shot to begin had he been white?

I also noticed that he never said one way or another if the "victim" was reaching into the car, or if he was warned not to. Both of those things would have a major influence on the verdict.

I am not saying the cop was innocent butI find what we wern't told as important as what we were.

His narrative of what (in his mind ) the jury deliberation was indicates that he was reaching in the car for something, we don't know what, but should the cops take the chance ?

Oh yea, just as in the Rodney King case, the jury had to see King continually going after the police as he was writhing on the ground while getting hit with police batons, more than 50 times or so at least.

A clear case of all of these police shooting unarmed (and no guns to be found) men, that their lives were in imminent danger. Sure.....let me see, one running away shot several times in the back and one in a known potentially fatal choke hold for selling untaxed cigarettes.

I mean these juries just know that these victims...er criminals, were a real threat to civil order.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 3:37:26 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Is it not understandable why people of color have little faith in the protect and serve mission of the local police?

You dont get it vince, let me spell it out for you, the police are under NO OBLIGATION TO 'PROTECT AND SERVE' WHAT SO EVER!!! How many court cases do you want starting wit the wisc0nsin deshaney case?

it sll false advertisement

this is america FFS

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 3:41:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you realize the implied premise of your post is that the cop would not have been acquitted had the victim been white?

or alternatively, that the victim never would have been shot to begin had he been white?

I also noticed that he never said one way or another if the "victim" was reaching into the car, or if he was warned not to. Both of those things would have a major influence on the verdict.

I am not saying the cop was innocent butI find what we wern't told as important as what we were.

His narrative of what (in his mind ) the jury deliberation was indicates that he was reaching in the car for something, we don't know what, but should the cops take the chance ?

Oh yea, just as in the Rodney King case, the jury had to see King continually going after the police as he was writhing on the ground while getting hit with police batons, more than 50 times or so at least.

A clear case of all of these police shooting unarmed (and no guns to be found) men, that their lives were in imminent danger. Sure.....let me see, one running away shot several times in the back and one in a known potentially fatal choke hold for selling untaxed cigarettes.

I mean these juries just know that these victims...er criminals, were a real threat to civil order.

Hell they are such a threat in LA they shoot them in the back after they are handcuffed and on their stomach.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 3:52:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
By your numbers to be racially equal there would need to be over 2000 whites killed by cops. there being 8 times as many whites as there are blacks.

Law enforcement as a rule is being allowed to shoot first (even kill) and ask questions later.

Why are you trying to reduce this in being 'racially equal' when the distribution of crimes committed per race is not racially equal in any way?

despite having only 1/8th the standing population of the United States, blacks account for (on average) 1/4th of the crimes committed, and 50% of the homicides committed...

Honestly - the ratio of crimes committed per race tends to coincide rather closely with that % of them shot lethally by police. It's almost as if the police are shooting Bad Guys. But rather then judging these people by the content of their character - instead you are reducing them purely to the color of their skin... taking another big step away from the dream MLK spoke of on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 3:57:36 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfoMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
By your numbers to be racially equal there would need to be over 2000 whites killed by cops. there being 8 times as many whites as there are blacks.

Law enforcement as a rule is being allowed to shoot first (even kill) and ask questions later.

Why are you trying to reduce this in being 'racially equal' when the distribution of crimes committed per race is not racially equal in any way?

despite having only 1/8th the standing population of the United States, blacks account for (on average) 1/4th of the crimes committed, and 50% of the homicides committed...

Honestly - the ratio of crimes committed per race tends to coincide rather closely with that % of them shot lethally by police. It's almost as if the police are shooting Bad Guys. But rather then judging these people by the content of their character - instead you are reducing them purely to the color of their skin... taking another big step away from the dream MLK spoke of on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.

there ya go make a false quota! that is meaningless trash

Video shows US police shoot and kill unarmed black man
Footage released by Oklahoma police shows Terence Crutcher shot and killed by white officer while his hands are up.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/video-shows-police-shoot-kill-unarmed-black-man-160920042318546.html

we can do this all day, case after case of innocent black kids getting blasted by fucking rambo cops.

great PR for the land of the 'FREE' and all that bullshit.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to InfoMan)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:03:56 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you realize the implied premise of your post is that the cop would not have been acquitted had the victim been white?

or alternatively, that the victim never would have been shot to begin had he been white?

I also noticed that he never said one way or another if the "victim" was reaching into the car, or if he was warned not to. Both of those things would have a major influence on the verdict.

I am not saying the cop was innocent butI find what we wern't told as important as what we were.

His narrative of what (in his mind ) the jury deliberation was indicates that he was reaching in the car for something, we don't know what, but should the cops take the chance ?

Oh yea, just as in the Rodney King case, the jury had to see King continually going after the police as he was writhing on the ground while getting hit with police batons, more than 50 times or so at least.

A clear case of all of these police shooting unarmed (and no guns to be found) men, that their lives were in imminent danger. Sure.....let me see, one running away shot several times in the back and one in a known potentially fatal choke hold for selling untaxed cigarettes.

I mean these juries just know that these victims...er criminals, were a real threat to civil order.

In the one case that is specifically identifiable he got off because when you have a case of involuntary manslaughter you can't convict for 1st degree murder. The prosecutor, in an effort to make people like you happy, grossly overcharged. The same happened in Baltimore.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

RE: BLM NOT SO MUCH - 5/18/2017 4:08:56 PM

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Joined: 9/30/2014
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This is my first post on any forum ever, so please bear with me if I do something strange. First, kudos to the OP for at least trying to see the problem that people in BLM are trying to address.

There have been quite a few comments listed above that I think should be responded to however sometimes I don't know when some of you are being serious or just being trolls. The police violence in the country has been out of control forever. This is nothing new at all. The only new element is that video proof of actions is easier to see. Obviously, still not enough to convict if the perpetrator is a police officer. In this specific incident, we do not have the audio to know what the exchange was so let us not assume anything. Just like the officer should not have assumed that he was going for a weapon until she had visual confirmation of a weapon or at least what would appear to be a hostile movement. We all know (or should know) the justice system is biased in the favor of law enforcement. To me, the jury of the officer's peers was simply the 3 other officers on the scene and the officers in the helicopter.

None of the other 3 officers thought it necessary to pull the trigger even after the sound of shots fired by the first officer. Additionally, the officers in the helicopter had just assumed that he was going to be tasered. Since he had never (a) made an aggressive motion, (b) moved towards the officer, or (c) brandished a weapon it seems odd that after backup arrived (move vehicles, more officers, and a helicopter) she then though she was still in so much danger she had to pull the trigger.

And that tactical retreat....I have a feeling that they were trying to get away from Officer Shelby and considering how they were going to explain this shit without them getting taken down for her anxiousness.

Just FYI....since some people are unaware of the prosecution's evidence I will give a little background. It was proved (blood spatter and video) that at no time was he reaching inside the vehicle. The door was closed and the window was closed both with blood streaks clearly on the outside. the jerking movement by the deceased was due to taser being used (police witness statement).

(in reply to BamaD)

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