RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead.

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RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 5/31/2017 9:25:14 PM

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

he put himself into that situation, he followed her into her home, he knew she had mental issues. what happened to the night stick?

You don't know how the belt was set up, you don't even know if he had a knightstick.
All you know is someone representing the goverment must be wrong.
A blow from the knightstick could have been fatal, even tazers have been known to kill, then where would you be.

you can block a baseball bat with a nightstick but he should have backed off and put on his riot gear.

And then when she killed or injured a civilian you would have wanted his head for that, it isn't like he can pull it out of his back pocket.

And how do you know if she was trying to kill him.

well you are taking legal action to the next big leap congratulation, from probable cause now probable suspicion and you leading the way to anything imagined cant wait

Plot
In April 2054, Washington, DC's PreCrime police stops murderers before they act, reducing the murder rate to zero. Murders are predicted using three mutated humans, called "Precogs", who "previsualize" crimes by receiving visions of the future. Would-be murderers are imprisoned in their own happy virtual reality. The Federal government is on the verge of adopting the controversial program.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 5/31/2017 9:56:15 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

he put himself into that situation, he followed her into her home, he knew she had mental issues. what happened to the night stick?

You don't know how the belt was set up, you don't even know if he had a knightstick.
All you know is someone representing the goverment must be wrong.
A blow from the knightstick could have been fatal, even tazers have been known to kill, then where would you be.

you can block a baseball bat with a nightstick but he should have backed off and put on his riot gear.

And then when she killed or injured a civilian you would have wanted his head for that, it isn't like he can pull it out of his back pocket.

And how do you know if she was trying to kill him.

well you are taking legal action to the next big leap congratulation, from probable cause now probable suspicion and you leading the way to anything imagined cant wait

Plot
In April 2054, Washington, DC's PreCrime police stops murderers before they act, reducing the murder rate to zero. Murders are predicted using three mutated humans, called "Precogs", who "previsualize" crimes by receiving visions of the future. Would-be murderers are imprisoned in their own happy virtual reality. The Federal government is on the verge of adopting the controversial program.

I never said she wasn't trying to kill him.
I don't know what she was thinking, and niether do you.
You should know (don't feel bad the mayor doesn't either) Tazers and nightsticks (more likely a baton which will no deflect a bat) are not for use against armed attackers, but he is a cop so fry him.

BTW there is no evidence that race had anything to do with this.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 5/31/2017 10:20:27 PM

Posts: 471
Joined: 2/20/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

he put himself into that situation, he followed her into her home, he knew she had mental issues. what happened to the night stick?

You don't know how the belt was set up, you don't even know if he had a knightstick.
All you know is someone representing the goverment must be wrong.
A blow from the knightstick could have been fatal, even tazers have been known to kill, then where would you be.

you can block a baseball bat with a nightstick but he should have backed off and put on his riot gear.

I'm sorry what?
Block a baseball bat with a nightstick?

Police Batons that are issued today are not designed to deflect shit... so by all means, Go try and 'block' a baseball bat swing with an ASP baton... tell me how it goes.

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 5/31/2017 10:32:34 PM

Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

Police are not supposed to be mental illness experts. Who says they get any mental illness training at all?

My worry is not that police are or not properly trained for dealing with mental illness, but that they are evidently not properly filtered for mental illness or fundamental incapacity themselves.

< Message edited by Edwird -- 5/31/2017 10:33:36 PM >

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 5/31/2017 10:45:03 PM

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

he put himself into that situation, he followed her into her home, he knew she had mental issues. what happened to the night stick?

You don't know how the belt was set up, you don't even know if he had a knightstick.
All you know is someone representing the goverment must be wrong.
A blow from the knightstick could have been fatal, even tazers have been known to kill, then where would you be.

you can block a baseball bat with a nightstick but he should have backed off and put on his riot gear.

And then when she killed or injured a civilian you would have wanted his head for that, it isn't like he can pull it out of his back pocket.

And how do you know if she was trying to kill him.

well you are taking legal action to the next big leap congratulation, from probable cause now probable suspicion and you leading the way to anything imagined cant wait

Plot
In April 2054, Washington, DC's PreCrime police stops murderers before they act, reducing the murder rate to zero. Murders are predicted using three mutated humans, called "Precogs", who "previsualize" crimes by receiving visions of the future. Would-be murderers are imprisoned in their own happy virtual reality. The Federal government is on the verge of adopting the controversial program.

I never said she wasn't trying to kill him.
I don't know what she was thinking, and niether do you.
You should know (don't feel bad the mayor doesn't either) Tazers and nightsticks (more likely a baton which will no deflect a bat) are not for use against armed attackers, but he is a cop so fry him.

BTW there is no evidence that race had anything to do with this.

he created a situation leaving a choice to kill her or roll the dice that might hurt someone, and opted to kill her.

the whole point is there are other options and killing her was not justifiable.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 5/31/2017 10:52:41 PM

Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind
Cops who did not defend themselves when attacked would be mostly useless.

Having the most clueless and biggest chickenshits in the neighborhood as police is not exactly inspiring regarding security of any society, either.

Such as those are useless to society upon hiring to begin with, but that's where we are today.

< Message edited by Edwird -- 5/31/2017 11:04:52 PM >

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 6:23:36 AM

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Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline

Fine work by your police death squads & one less doolally darkie from the savage realms to worry about.

I like when they taser them first and then pump em full of lead.

Here is what I don't understand, tasering her or pepper spraying her or jinking couple of steps back etc aside, why do some get charged and others not?

_____________________________

wE arE tHe voiCes,
We SAtuRaTe yOur aLPHA brain WAveS, ThIs is nOt A DrEAm The wiZaRd of Oz, shoES, CaLcuLUs, DECorAtiNG, FrIDGE SProcKeTs, be VeRy sCareDed – SLoBbers,We DeEManDErs Sloowee DAnCiNG, SmOOches – whisper whisper & CaAkEE

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 8:06:01 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

BoscoX forgetting the racial side of this particular incident, which in this case does not even belong in the discussion, it breaks down to a mentally ill assailant and a responding police officer. I think we can all agree the result of this case was not what we would have wanted to happen.... So... how could this tragedy have been avoided.

Some here want to assign blame... I don't because what happened once the two came together may have been unavoidable. The solution I believe is two fold. I don't have statistics but I would guess that many with a severe mental illness cannot function properly in our society and therefore cannot afford health insurance that could provide them treatment. Otherwise they slip through the holes and become time bombs waiting to explode. How many times in the last few years have we seen the mentally ill get access to a weapon and kill? Far too often for my liking. The partial solution would be to provide free mental healthcare. As you say it would not stop all incidents like this but it would at least reduce them. If it saved one life... like someone i love... it would be worth it.

The second part would be better police training when confronted with the mentally ill. As I've said before this solution may help but is not the answer alone.

I am just proposing solutions if you want to make it political you are missing my point. I would be interested in your ideas on how these type of tragedies could be at least reduced.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/1/2017 8:22:15 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BoscoX)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 8:38:48 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

yes its sad, but again, because this would have never happened to a white person right??

That is a fair question. Find us a report of such an incident, I suspect there are many, and we will discuss it.

In the meanwhile, I do suspect that race is a trigger for action, even if the actor is unaware of the lifelong and insidious social memes we live with.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to bounty44)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 8:58:23 AM

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Joined: 10/31/2009
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Here is an essay written by Deborah Danner, the victim in this case, entitled "Living With Schizophrenia"

Unfortunately, it is photographed so I cannot edit it for you. Let me call your attention to Page 2 where Deborah recounts some poignant memories of episodes and page 4 where she makes come constructive suggestions.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 11:34:20 AM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

NYPD Sergeant Charged With Murder In Shooting Of Elderly Woman With Mental Illness

Heartbreaking.

He followed her into her apartment. She swung a baseball bat at him. He shot her dead. Eight years on the force. What kind of training do police get for dealing with the mentally ill in crises?

I expect some people think this situation cant happen to them or someone they love but if a person gets dementia they can start hallucinating all sorts of things, not know where they live (even if they have lived there 30 years), etc and become angry and even violent.. with people living in their homes longer, perhaps until they die, there may be no family member/caregiver to come to their aid/defense should they get dementia and "act crazy" in a similar way this woman did... You dont have to actually be mentally ill to act crazy.. Just sayin'...

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 2:41:07 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

BoscoX forgetting the racial side of this particular incident, which in this case does not even belong in the discussion, it breaks down to a mentally ill assailant and a responding police officer. I think we can all agree the result of this case was not what we would have wanted to happen.... So... how could this tragedy have been avoided.

Some here want to assign blame... I don't because what happened once the two came together may have been unavoidable. The solution I believe is two fold. I don't have statistics but I would guess that many with a severe mental illness cannot function properly in our society and therefore cannot afford health insurance that could provide them treatment. Otherwise they slip through the holes and become time bombs waiting to explode. How many times in the last few years have we seen the mentally ill get access to a weapon and kill? Far too often for my liking. The partial solution would be to provide free mental healthcare. As you say it would not stop all incidents like this but it would at least reduce them. If it saved one life... like someone i love... it would be worth it.

The second part would be better police training when confronted with the mentally ill. As I've said before this solution may help but is not the answer alone.

I am just proposing solutions if you want to make it political you are missing my point. I would be interested in your ideas on how these type of tragedies could be at least reduced.

Butch

Why did they only send one officer?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 4:02:01 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

FR
If, as sugested they knew the situation, why did they only send one cop?
They supossedly knew about her mental health issues and did not send more than one cop.
If someone is swinging a bat at you odds are that you will consider this a mortal threat.
The mayor aside niether the baton nor tazers are intended to deal with armed attackers.
Regardless of what some may want to think a baseball bat is a deadly weapon.
It looks like, once again, a NYC cop was put in a no win situation and the politicians are selling him down the river to cover their own rears.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 5:24:14 PM

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

yeh right, the second she put down the scissors he said turn your sweet ass around so I can cuff you and she said the fuck you will.
the cop violated procedure, no amount of your fencing and apologizing can change that.
a baton and tazer is also a deadly weapon.
He didnt say now that we are clam lets all sit down and talk for a while so I can go home to the wife and kids, nope, he made her feel all cozy and protected using the cuff yer ass outreach program

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 6:46:17 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

yeh right, the second she put down the scissors he said turn your sweet ass around so I can cuff you and she said the fuck you will.
the cop violated procedure, no amount of your fencing and apologizing can change that.
a baton and tazer is also a deadly weapon.
He didnt say now that we are clam lets all sit down and talk for a while so I can go home to the wife and kids, nope, he made her feel all cozy and protected using the cuff yer ass outreach program

If he had any inclination toward killing her he could have when she pulled the trigger.
Do you have a recording of how he talked to her after the scissors?
Again he was sent into a no win situation and the government is selling him down the river.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 6:57:54 PM

Posts: 10540
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

NYPD Sergeant Charged With Murder In Shooting Of Elderly Woman With Mental Illness

Heartbreaking.

He followed her into her apartment. She swung a baseball bat at him. He shot her dead. Eight years on the force. What kind of training do police get for dealing with the mentally ill in crises?

He talked her into putting the scizzers down, then she attacked him with a bat.
So of ccourse in NYC they charged him with murder.
But why have a trial, burn him at the stake, then pick 4 other officers at random and burn them at the stake too.

What's a surprise so far, is that he was charged at all. Now let's see if he's acquitted or not.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 7:03:28 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

So that's your solution?

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 7:05:23 PM

Posts: 10540
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

he put himself into that situation, he followed her into her home, he knew she had mental issues. what happened to the night stick?

You don't know how the belt was set up, you don't even know if he had a knightstick.
All you know is someone representing the goverment must be wrong.
A blow from the knightstick could have been fatal, even tazers have been known to kill, then where would you be.

you can block a baseball bat with a nightstick but he should have backed off and put on his riot gear.

Look, we have arrived at a totally new 'law enforcement' culture, shoot even to kill and...ask questions later.

Soon, mark my words here. At anything like a demonstration and fearing for their safety, cops will start shooting into crowds and killing people...en masse.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 7:13:00 PM

Posts: 10540
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So that's your solution?

Call back-up in all of these situations or just send at least two cops. Doesn't NY have cruisers in pairs anyway ?

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: You're black, mentally ill, you call 911, you're dead. - 6/1/2017 7:30:16 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

NYPD Sergeant Charged With Murder In Shooting Of Elderly Woman With Mental Illness

Heartbreaking.

He followed her into her apartment. She swung a baseball bat at him. He shot her dead. Eight years on the force. What kind of training do police get for dealing with the mentally ill in crises?

He talked her into putting the scizzers down, then she attacked him with a bat.
So of ccourse in NYC they charged him with murder.
But why have a trial, burn him at the stake, then pick 4 other officers at random and burn them at the stake too.

What's a surprise so far, is that he was charged at all. Now let's see if he's acquitted or not.

It is NYC, he was bound to be charged.
His life has been ruined.
The outcome of the trial is yet to be seen, it will depend on the actuall evidence, I hope.
NYC is known for sending cops into unwinnable situations then selling them down the river.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

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