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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 6:31:21 AM

PeonForHer

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More than fifty dead, the BBC are now saying. Bloody hell, this man meant business.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 6:48:34 AM

bounty44

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

You just trolled us.
No one had mentioned US gunproblems. Before you brought it up.

Dumb strawman to play

that's not what he's done here. rather, based on experience from the numerous gun threads that have occurred here, he's presaged an argument, and then prophylactically responded to it.

while that bears some similarity to "answering an argument that's not really been made", its not the same. the difference being he's not responding, in a misrepresenting way, to anything that's been put forth. he's responding to actual positions that have been make in the past.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 7:06:07 AM

Greta75

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FR
This dude just camp at the top of a building and sniped. And managed to kill 50?

That's alot! It would need super accurate shooting from that distance and like, he had alot of time to keep shooting before he was found. Ex-Military?

But the big question. What was his beef against country music? Why specifically target country music lovers?

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 7:10:40 AM

WhoreMods

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Whitman, under the new definition would have been considered a terrorist.

Under the current definition, a terrorist is anyone that commits an act of violence with the intent of harming a large number of people, with or without some political/religious motivation.

Really? That's absurd. If the political aspect doesn't define terrorism anymore, that makes every spree killer in history a terrorist.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 7:13:24 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
Really? That's absurd. If the political aspect doesn't define terrorism anymore, that makes every spree killer in history a terrorist.

Like that kid who snapped who went into the school and shot alot of students. I guess that's terrorism too, when he was taking revenge for being bullied.

But an old white American male shot alot of white people in a country music festival, country music, being like THE ALL American music!

I am so curious about motive! Identifying this guy, his history and the whys. Did the band playing that night hurt his feelings? When he tried to ask for an autograph?

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 7:27:22 AM

WhoreMods

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
Really? That's absurd. If the political aspect doesn't define terrorism anymore, that makes every spree killer in history a terrorist.

Like that kid who snapped who went into the school and shot alot of students. I guess that's terrorism too, when he was taking revenge for being bullied.

But an old white American male shot alot of white people in a country music festival, country music, being like THE ALL American music!

I am so curious about motive! Identifying this guy, his history and the whys. Did the band playing that night hurt his feelings? When he tried to ask for an autograph?

Maybe he was a purist and he felt that the record for the most murdered at a music event in the 'States should be held by a live concert rather than a club playing disco records?
(I'd suspect it's some sort of beef with one of the acts: what they'd call a "hater" if he'd shot up a rap event rather than a country one. Maybe he felt that one of Jason Aldean's bigger numbers was a rip off a failed single of his own, or something. There are people who think like that out there.)

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 7:33:20 AM

peppermint

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So very sad. So many families hurting today.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 7:33:21 AM

Greta75

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I actually am a hater of country music. And have no idea who Jason Aldean is.

The only country musician I notice is Blake Shelton from the voice because he is just my type of guy in size and physique and I only know him from The Voice.

But I can't stand anything he sings. It's country!

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 7:41:28 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

So very sad. So many families hurting today.

Everytime when something bad like this happens. I think it's important to understand the psychology behind it. What made this person do this. And then hope to prevent a future one.

People always want to look it at the angle of I just hate Muslims. But when I look at their motivation and the "whys" they did it. Their reasoning came from because their religion told them they have to. There is a threat of hell hanging over their heads if they don't do it.

So I have to blame the teachings of the religion and start prevention from there. My country is taking alot of steps to differentiate between extremist Iman to moderate Iman. They are all Muslims. And they are trying to ban or shut down every extremist Iman to try to deal with this problem. But there is the problem of Muslim kids still reaching out to extremist Imans through online.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 7:42:02 AM

WhoreMods

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I actually am a hater of country music. And have no idea who Jason Aldean is.

The only country musician I notice is Blake Shelton from the voice because he is just my type of guy in size and physique and I only know him from The Voice.

But I can't stand anything he sings. It's country!

It isn't all dreck like Garth Brooks or Miley's dad, Greta.
(I don't know any of Jason Aldean's stuff myself, but it's hard not to feel sorry for the guy over this. It's the very last way you'd want to get on the news as a working musician, isn't it?)

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 7:48:08 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
It isn't all dreck like Garth Brooks or Miley's dad, Greta.
(I don't know any of Jason Aldean's stuff myself, but it's hard not to feel sorry for the guy over this. It's the very last way you'd want to get on the news as a working musician, isn't it?)

I shall await for motive. But it's very strange for a white man to go after country music. In my head right now, I am thinking that, country music is associated to right leaning folks, and right leaning folks is associated with Trump voters and shooter is left leaning who hated all the people who voted for Trump, thus he went to shoot em all. And then Trump will be blamed for this shooting for making people so angry and divided to this extent. My speculation and my guess.

Or may be just a beef against a specific band playing. And trying to ruin their concert.

Or a white Muslim..., they exist.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 8:14:57 AM

heavyblinker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
This dude just camp at the top of a building and sniped. And managed to kill 50?

That's alot! It would need super accurate shooting from that distance and like, he had alot of time to keep shooting before he was found. Ex-Military?

But the big question. What was his beef against country music? Why specifically target country music lovers?

Automatic assault weapons are legal in Nevada.
That is apparently what he used.

You don't have to be a sharpshooter if you're using one of those.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 8:27:04 AM

bounty44

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on the whole greta yes, country music is much more appreciated by those on the right, and "mainstream" and somewhat Christian America.

it will be interesting to see if this particular shooting was more or less one of convenience, or because of the populace related to the genre.

if you want to try a few representative aldean songs, try "Amarillo sky", "my kind of party," "hicktown," "just gettin' started," "she's country," "the only way I know," "johnny cash" and "lights come on."

i like them all but particularly so the lyrics to Amarillo sky:

He gets up before the dawn
Packs a lunch and a thermos full of coffee
It's another day in the dusty haze
Those burning rays are wearing down his body
The diesel's worth the price of gold
It's the cheapest grain he's ever sold
But he's still holdin' on

He just takes the tractor another round
And pulls the plow across the ground
And sends up another prayer
He says, "Lord, I never complain, I never ask why
Please don't let my dreams run dry
Underneath, underneath this Amarillo sky."

That hail storm back in '83
Sure did take a toll on his family
He stayed strong and carried on
Just like his dad and granddad did before him
On his knees every night
He prays, "please let my crops and children grow."
'Cause that's all he's ever known

He just takes the tractor another round
And pulls the plow across the ground
And sends up another prayer
He says, "Lord, I never complain, I never ask why
Please don't let my dreams run dry
Underneath, underneath this Amarillo sky."

And he takes the tractor another round, another round, another round
And he takes the tractor another round, another round
He says, "I never complain, I never ask why
Please don't let my dreams run dry
Underneath, underneath this Amarillo sky
Underneath this Amarillo Sky."

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 8:45:14 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
It isn't all dreck like Garth Brooks or Miley's dad, Greta.
(I don't know any of Jason Aldean's stuff myself, but it's hard not to feel sorry for the guy over this. It's the very last way you'd want to get on the news as a working musician, isn't it?)

I shall await for motive. But it's very strange for a white man to go after country music.

Yes, because all white men like and listen to country music? There's a stereotype that I can help put to grass. I despise the stuff and almost always have (My uncle taught me how to play some Johnny Cash stuff on my guitar, when I was a wee sprig).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
In my head right now, I am thinking that, country music is associated to right leaning folks, and right leaning folks is associated with Trump voters and shooter is left leaning who hated all the people who voted for Trump, thus he went to shoot em all. And then Trump will be blamed for this shooting for making people so angry and divided to this extent. My speculation and my guess.

You really need a hobby. Seriously. "country music is associated with right leaning folks ..." Strike two. I lean to the right and, again: I DETEST country music.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Or may be just a beef against a specific band playing. And trying to ruin their concert.

Or a white Muslim..., they exist.

While this might be referred to, these days, as an "ISIS-styled attack" and you're right, when you say white Muslims do exist, but there is NOTHING CREDIBLE to this point to suggest this guy was a Muslim. It would be extremely rare for a man that old to be a "recent Muslim convert". Although, I suppose it could happen. Idealism on that scale is usually the milieu of the under 30 crowd.

As per usual, I was awake, when this hit the airwaves. I went to sleep around 0400 and the reports were 2 dead, 26 injured.

I could tell by the first video shown that it was automatic fire and there were a lot more than 30 injured.

The 32nd floor is about 250-260 feet up and the concert was across the street. I'm not good at math, but this guy was probably a total of 600-700 feet (total distance) away from the concert area. That's not all that far with an AR15 or M16 (Someone suggested a legal, full auto weapon). The rule of automatic weapons fire is to start at the ground and walk your fire up. Even from that distance, with that large a crowd, that type of tactic could have caused the damage we're hearing about so, the numbers aren't all that surprising.

I will admit: my first thought, when the story first broke (around 0030 or 0100) was: "Those DAESH bastards!", but as the reports came in (by about 0200 or so), I began to doubt that because with that scale of potential deaths, DAESH would have sent more than one shooter (Think about the French soccer thing, last year).

Whether just a "lonely old man", a "lone wolf" or a "sanctioned DAESH action", what this comes down to a sick piece of shit negatively affecting/destroying innocent lives of people who just wanted to get a little tipsy and hear some of their favorite tunes. I won't wish hell on him, but I'm confident that's where he is.

One of the reasons I knew it was worse than was known, when I went to sleep was somewhere between 0200 and 0300 a reporter stopped an off duty cop, wearing a dark blue scrub tunic with a stethoscope hanging around his neck. He said he was also an army combat vet and he was near tears and couldn't talk. That told me all I needed to know about the tragedy.

early this morning, I posted this on my Facebook page: "Pray for the victims in Las Vegas, today and for the "regular people" who were at the show who heroically ran into the fray to save the injured and recover the dead."

Then, let's wait for facts.

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 10/2/2017 9:14:40 AM >

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 9:21:45 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Whitman, under the new definition would have been considered a terrorist.

Under the current definition, a terrorist is anyone that commits an act of violence with the intent of harming a large number of people, with or without some political/religious motivation.

Really? That's absurd. If the political aspect doesn't define terrorism anymore, that makes every spree killer in history a terrorist.

You preaching to the choir.

It was a subtle change in the DoJ codification of violent crimes, with the intent to allow for harsher punishment for people such as would go out and shoot up a school because they are bullied.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
This dude just camp at the top of a building and sniped. And managed to kill 50?

No, he had a room in the Mandalay hotel/casino, on the 32nd floor. So he was a spree killer with some idea of style since those rooms run $100 a night for a king room.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
That's alot! It would need super accurate shooting from that distance and like, he had alot of time to keep shooting before he was found. Ex-Military?

He was firing into a very large crowd, no aiming needed, a basic point, pull trigger, point again. Hell a blind man could do as much damage if you pointed him in the right direction.

Are you naturally this ignorant, or do you practice?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
But the big question. What was his beef against country music? Why specifically target country music lovers?

I doubt if it was due to music genre or fans, probably picked a day when a large crowd would be across the street. Anyone would do.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 9:57:59 AM

LadyPact

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My condolences to the families of the dead and injured.

I have trouble even thinking of a motivation. I agree that jumping to conclusions on that aren't helpful at this time. Better to wait for information.

Motivations aside, the guy might have been crazy for wanting to kill all of those people, but he wasn't stupid. I see this as a well executed plan. Huge outdoor music festival like that, positioned himself in a place that gave him an advantage to do a lot of damage while not being on the concert grounds, himself, etc. It's horrific.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 10:03:50 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Yes, because all white men like and listen to country music? There's a stereotype that I can help put to grass.

Well, not all white men, but I consider country music an American White Men thing! It takes a thick white southern accent to sing a proper country song doesn't it?

There are always exceptions to genre.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 10:09:06 AM

MrRodgers

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I was almost there. A couple of women I know after I agreed then turned down a free ticket the the Knight's exhibition game Thurs., (new NHL team) asked me to go with them down to the festival. I politely declined.

My recent-years and general disgust for any sizable crowd of people in a small area...stopped me from both.

(when my Wash. Caps hockey team moved into D.C, Verizon center...never once went)

Had chances and never went to the Meadowlands, too many drunks etc. Open air venues may come to an end now.

Latest is 58 dead 515 injured yet I don't see it.

Oh they are unhurt and didn't get close...too many people, one est. had 30,000+.

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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/2/2017 10:16:32 AM

MercTech

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I wonder how many dead and injured were from gunshots and how many from a panicked crowd trying to flee through limited exits? In a crisis situation; often more are injured from panic than from the immanent threat.

Assuming all the deaths were from gunshot and no multiple kills per shot due to ricochet; that is one reload with 30 round magazines and 6 reloads with California magazines (10 round max). Based on scores at a tactical range, yep way back in the day, that rate of fire would be consistent with three minutes of supressive fire for a practiced marksman or 5 minutes for a duffer.

And some of my friends wonder why large crowds make me paranoid a bit. Knowledge of how easy it is to devastate a crowd is a thing I wish I could unlearn.

BTW, you don't need a southern accent to sing country. You just learn to sing through the nose. And, yes, Nashville style country is a southern white thing. And Delta Blues is a southern black thing. And New Orleans Jazz don't give a fig for color as long as you like it spiced. Is this an issue?

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