RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (Full Version)

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JstAnotherSub -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/13/2017 3:11:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Well, I think 24 weeks is seriously very fair, or even 20 weeks. I mean, woman who uses abortion as birth control! Stop being wishy washy about abortion! Either get rid of it or don't! And get it done ASAP if they wanted it gone!

Don't delay, and don't wait!

It makes the removal of fetus more and more complicated as they keep delaying their decision.

And HONESTLY if any woman has any doubts about abortion, they should NOT abort. They gonna live with guilt for the rest of their life.

The ones who are quite comfortable with aborting, would just have immediately get it done.

Third trimester abortions are not done as birth control. They are done to save the life of the mother when a pregnancy becomes non viable at that point in the pregnancy.

You have control over your own uterus. You and the government need to stay out of everyone elses.



stef -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/13/2017 4:01:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Is someone feeling like they swallowed some vagisil???

It probably made his breath smell better.



MrRodgers -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/13/2017 4:50:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I think I'm pretty sure that most women carrying a child, don't think of it as a parasite.

Parasite is no less emotive a term than child.
[;)]

Well what's always missing from the debate that children are sacred now but up to the 1930's and even later, they were destined to be family wage earners, sent off to work as young as 6. Many 1000's of which were injured, maimed or killed.

It got to a point where a father looked forward to his children in their youth, supporting him. In the cities it got so bad, people who couldn't afford to 'invest' in them until then, were selling their children and hopefully to a home that could.

So I guess it's not too 'progressive' to see that vanish...for now anyway. We can look forward or maybe our children or their children can, to all of that coming back.

I am sure the dedicated capitalist of the future will father all of the children he can, when he...can sell them.



WhoreMods -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 5:02:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I think I'm pretty sure that most women carrying a child, don't think of it as a parasite.

Parasite is no less emotive a term than child.
[;)]

Well what's always missing from the debate that children are sacred now but up to the 1930's and even later, they were destined to be family wage earners, sent off to work as young as 6. Many 1000's of which were injured, maimed or killed.

It got to a point where a father looked forward to his children in their youth, supporting him. In the cities it got so bad, people who couldn't afford to 'invest' in them until then, were selling their children and hopefully to a home that could.

So I guess it's not too 'progressive' to see that vanish...for now anyway. We can look forward or maybe our children or their children can, to all of that coming back.

I am sure the dedicated capitalist of the future will father all of the children he can, when he...can sell them.

Particularly if he has a rare blood group which will make his brood unusually valuable for organ transplants.



jlf1961 -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 6:03:57 AM)

For the record, at 20 weeks a fetus may actually be sucking its thumb and have fully developed arms and legs.

For the record, and contrary to the dogma preached by many religions, I am opposed to any elective abortion after the first trimester, which considering that I am Catholic, goes against the church's stand on the issue.

That being said, I will agree that in cases of rape and incest, it should be the victim's choice as to carrying the child to term or aborting it, again in defiance of the church.

This is due to the psychological impact on the victim.

All that being said, I feel that abortion as a means of birth control because the woman either gave into base emotions of the moment (along with the male who could not keep it in his pants) is wrong on any number of counts.

However, I feel that the government, any government, does not have the right or authority to legislate what a person does with his or her body.

Which again puts me in conflict with the church, and any number of fundy denominations who want the government to regulate and legislate just about everything.

The woman should have the right to decide what she wants to do, and live with the consequences of her decision.

The fact that both sides of the 'abortion issue' actually agree with the idea of two murder charges being filed when a person takes the life of a pregnant woman is confusing as hell to me.

If the pro choice people want to insist that life begins at birth and not before, how in the hell can they turn around and say that a person taking the life of a pregnant woman is responsible for two deaths?

In my mind, that indicates that they are actually accepting the fact that the fetus is actually a living person, since murder is defined as taking a human life.



WhoreMods -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 6:36:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
All that being said, I feel that abortion as a means of birth control because the woman either gave into base emotions of the moment (along with the male who could not keep it in his pants) is wrong on any number of counts.

A lot of the time that's more the fault of chemists who refuse to sell or fill prescriptions for other forms of birth control than on somebody whose got pregnant because she couldn't buy a packet of three or birth control pills, though. I always find it hilarious that some twonk who thinks that their religious convictions are more important than doing their job is forcing women to have abortions by refusing to provide them with alternatives. The fuckers should have bought a cake shop instead of a drugstore...



DesideriScuri -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 7:38:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
...
However, I feel that the government, any government, does not have the right or authority to legislate what a person does with his or her body.
...
The woman should have the right to decide what she wants to do, and live with the consequences of her decision.
...


I completely agree government doesn't have the authority to legislate what a person does with his/her body. Thus, I completely agree that a man or woman should have the right to decide what he or she wants to do with his or her body, as long as it's not crossing another's rights. I would also say, that, at least in the case of abortion, a woman has every right to abort her fetus, but no right to do so with taxpayers' money. Planned Parenthood gets loads of donations, an the people who donate to them do so knowing that their money could (and I'm sure some donate specifying it has to) go towards paying for someone else's abortion. They have the right to do that with their own money.

I feel abortion is wrong. I also feel I don't have the right or authority to decide that for someone else.





bounty44 -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 9:31:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I would also say, that, at least in the case of abortion, a woman has every right to abort her fetus...

I feel abortion is wrong. I also feel I don't have the right or authority to decide that for someone else.


I understand the hesitancy to use the force of law when it concerns individual choices, but i could use some help with this statement:

if she has a "right" to do it, im unclear how abortion can be "wrong?" can you elaborate? are you thinking "a right to do it" is maybe synonymous with "free to do it" because the law allows for it?

quote:

Thus, I completely agree that a man or woman should have the right to decide what he or she wants to do with his or her body, as long as it's not crossing another's rights.


when does the baby in the womb get rights such that killing it would be in violation of those rights?








DaddySatyr -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 9:45:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

when does the baby in the womb get rights such that killing it would be in violation of those rights?



It frequently baffles me that of all the beings in an abortion chamber, the one in most imminent danger of death is the one who has no voice.



Peace,


Michael



jlf1961 -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 10:04:18 AM)

Contrary to the far right and anti abortion propaganda, federal funding provided to planned parenthood and other similar agencies, by FEDERAL law cannot be used in paying for abortions.

The funding can be used for any other medically necessary procedure or medication such as cancer screenings, std checks and other non abortion issues including providing birth control.

Also contrary to the pro choice members of congress, only 3% of planned parenthood services are abortions.

If you want to argue this point, google federal funds paying for abortions at least one result will show the fact the law prohibits federal funding from paying for abortions.

Furthermore, federally subsidized or funded medical programs such as medicaid and medicare will not cover elective surgery or procedures of any kind, and this too, included elective abortions.

If the life of the mother is threatened by the pregnancy that cannot be dealt with by medication, then an abortion is covered.

Finally, most private insurance companies will not cover elective abortions, and if they do, the copay is extremely high.

So, the abortions performed by planned parenthood are covered by independent donations, and another point, planned parenthood does not recommend abortion as anything but a last option.

Which brings up another point.

Human infertility rates are on the increase



JVoV -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 10:19:17 AM)

And no matter how many times that is said, it doesn't sink in.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 10:28:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Contrary to the far right and anti abortion propaganda, federal funding provided to planned parenthood and other similar agencies, by FEDERAL law cannot be used in paying for abortions.



Money is fungible and every tax dollar spent on "other services", frees up PP donations to be used for abortion so, at the very least, tax dollars are being used to "subsidize" abortions.

The government should divorce itself from PP or PP should "split", making the "abortion division" cut off from ANY "stain" of tax dollars.



Michael



WhoreMods -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 10:48:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

when does the baby in the womb get rights such that killing it would be in violation of those rights?



It frequently baffles me that of all the beings in an abortion chamber, the one in most imminent danger of death is the one who has no voice.



Peace,


Michael

You're okay with paying for the child to be fed through dependency-encouraging welfare if its mother didn't want to have it because she couldn't afford to raise and look after a child, then?
That's the thing that really pisses me off about all this bullshit: this risibly stupid and deeply offensive notion that the nine months before somebody gets their birth certificate must be protected with the full force of the law, but once their mother has dropped them, they're on their own and the hell with any wet liberal who thinks that birth is where society's obligation to children begins, rather than where it ends.



Lucylastic -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 10:51:54 AM)

Yep. Men know what its all about. Money and responsibillty.
Gah




DaddySatyr -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 10:52:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

You're okay with paying for the child to be fed through dependency-encouraging welfare if its mother didn't want to have it because she couldn't afford to raise and look after a child, then?
That's the thing that really pisses me off about all this bullshit: this risibly stupid and deeply offensive notion that the nine months before somebody gets their birth certificate must be protected with the full force of the law, but once their mother has dropped them, they're on their own and the hell with any wet liberal who thinks that birth is where society's obligation to children begins, rather than where it ends.



Your first sentence assumes a position I don't hold.

I do believe that welfare causes dependency/slavery to the government teat, but I am not against the existence of safety nets. I am against those safety nets becoming a "career" and, in some cases, a "family business".

I also believe recipients should prove that they are doing everything they can to become employable (drug tests, etc.). I have to take a drug test to earn their check for them, the least they could do is take a test to receive it.






WhoreMods -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 10:53:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Yep. Men know what its all about. Money


I'm just pointing out that the same people who want to deny women any control over their reproductive "rights" are also viciously opposed to paying any sort of state funded child maintenance. Always strikes me as a double standard that one.



WhoreMods -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 10:56:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

You're okay with paying for the child to be fed through dependency-encouraging welfare if its mother didn't want to have it because she couldn't afford to raise and look after a child, then?
That's the thing that really pisses me off about all this bullshit: this risibly stupid and deeply offensive notion that the nine months before somebody gets their birth certificate must be protected with the full force of the law, but once their mother has dropped them, they're on their own and the hell with any wet liberal who thinks that birth is where society's obligation to children begins, rather than where it ends.



Your first sentence assumes a position I don't hold.

I do believe that welfare causes dependency/slavery to the government teat, but I am not against the existence of safety nets. I am against those safety nets becoming a "career" and, in some cases, a "family business".

I also believe recipients should prove that they are doing everything they can to become employable (drug tests, etc.). I have to take a drug test to earn their check for them, the least they could do is take a test to receive it.





None of which has anything to do with my point: does an abortion cost the fed more than another welfare sponger who'll spend the rest of their life hanging off the government teat?



DaddySatyr -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 10:58:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

None of which has anything to do with my point: does an abortion cost the fed more than another welfare sponger who'll spend the rest of their life hanging off the government teat?


and none of your statement addressed my point which was I (and people like me who oppose abortion) should not be forced to pay for it at the point of a gun (taxes).






Lucylastic -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 11:05:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Yep. Men know what its all about. Money


I'm just pointing out that the same people who want to deny women any control over their reproductive "rights" are also viciously opposed to paying any sort of state funded child maintenance. Always strikes me as a double standard that one.

I was not disagreeing,
I should clarify, i didnt mean you, or all men
Just this particulr page of posts
And what is "acceptable " to them



jlf1961 -> RE: Congress pass new abortion law to ban late term abortion (12/14/2017 11:07:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Contrary to the far right and anti abortion propaganda, federal funding provided to planned parenthood and other similar agencies, by FEDERAL law cannot be used in paying for abortions.



Money is fungible and every tax dollar spent on "other services", frees up PP donations to be used for abortion so, at the very least, tax dollars are being used to "subsidize" abortions.

The government should divorce itself from PP or PP should "split", making the "abortion division" cut off from ANY "stain" of tax dollars.



Michael



Considering the bullshit that Federally funded grants are being used for, planned parenthood is the least staining.

I will agree with stopping pp funding when the government gets out of funding 'art' that isnt, research studies that have no real benefit for humanity, and the few billion spent each year to subsidize the rail road industry to maintain the rail network that the rail roads own themselves, under a long forgotten program that was meant to modernize the rail system for high speed freight and passenger service over 30 years ago that has yet to happen.

Or the billions in government matching funds given to telecom companies to upgrade the national telephone system to fiber optic? Under a program that was supposed to have fiber optic service to every home and business 10 years ago?

Like I said, planned parenthood is at least providing a service to someone, and not padding the pockets of some corporate assholes in salaries that would be impossible without government assistance to industries that have not actually achieved the goals that money was supposed to be used for.



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