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Consent - 10/29/2017 8:29:19 AM

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In a discussion about Weinstein in the Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion (Where Have All the SJWs Gone?), the topic of consent came up and I thought it would make a good thread on its own but felt it belonged in General BDSM Discussion rather than the Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion.

First a disclaimer, I believe in consent and I'm not an evolutionist but since it seems most here are evolutionists, I will open from an evolutionist stand point.

Evolution says mankind has been here for millions of years and so it would seem consent and gender equality are relatively new concepts and so it begs the question are they things that mankind has evolved and if not then has mankind had a chance to evolve in response to them? Or are these just concepts laid in a thin veneer over deep set evolutionary programming we have received over billions of years of evolution?

RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 8:33:12 AM

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Is rape "meant to happen"? Is that the question? Really?

(in reply to Milesnmiles)

RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 8:42:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Is rape "meant to happen"? Is that the question? Really?

In the evolutionary "animal" world there is no such thing as rape, there is only mating with those ready to be bred.

So, the question is why does mankind even have a concept of rape?

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RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 8:46:43 AM

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Oh this is not going to go well. And rightly so.

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RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 9:17:53 AM

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You ask a couple of interesting questions, but I think I take umbrage with some of the words chosen.

I'll work backwards ...

"Rape" doesn't exist in the animal kingdom because, by-and-large, the females of the species are more evenly physically matched with their male counterparts than human females and, if they're not receptive (either for physiological or sociological reasons), mating doesn't happen (in most species) because the females are able to fight them off.

So, I don't think it's equivalent to compare humans to animals, in this regard. I will grant that males aren't ostracized by the society, when they make a failed attempt at mating. Make no mistake about it, there are some intricate animal societies (Baboons, Geladas, Chimps and Toque Macaques come to mind) and individual males will fight over mating rights, but societal penalties for failed mating attempts are rare.

Then, as regards your first post:

First off, man has only been around for a couple of hundred thousand years (I think) and there's no doubt that societal changes are sometimes "forced" upon a population that is not ready for them. That's what we call politics or social engineering.

The fact that the populace isn't ready for these changes is evidenced by the strong opposition to them.

Michael

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RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 9:43:13 AM

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Michael, lemme go off in a slightly different direction, and not being a biologist or naturalist im a little unsure of what im about to ask---for the most part, does mating even really occur in the animal world apart from the females being in heat.

my point being, are we the only species where "mating" occurs for sexual pleasure as opposed to explicit sexual reproduction, during which (in the non-human animal world) the female is essentially saying "come and get me." in which case, there's no such thing as rape.

which pretty much appears to be miles point above...

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 9:49:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

Michael, lemme go off in a slightly different direction, and not being a biologist or naturalist im a little unsure of what im about to ask---for the most part, does mating even really occur in the animal world apart from the females being in heat.

my point being, are we the only species where "mating" occurs for sexual pleasure as opposed to explicit sexual reproduction, during which (in the non-human animal world) the female is essentially saying "come and get me." in which case, there's no such thing as rape.

I'm neither a biologist nor naturist either, but I watch (and learn from) a ton of nature videos.

I think there are certain (rare) species that scientists believe engage in sex for pleasure, specifically. If I'm not mistake ( and ... you know ... I'm not {said in his best "Adrian Monk" voice}), pigs, rabbits and dolphins come to mind. I reiterate: I may be wrong about that.

Essentially, though, your comment is on point. In the animal kingdom, mating is reserved as a necessity to be tolerated for the good of the species. I know there are some species of cats (and one that looks like a cat, but is actually a marsupial) where the "barbs" on the penis cause the female great pain (which is why you'll hear alley/Ferrel cats "Yowling", while mating).

That last paragraph is confusing, though. The males of most species are "always ready" and I believe there's evidence to show that they certainly attempt mating at their leisure.

I can imagine that there are some occasions where a female who is not in heat may get over-powered and taken by their male counterpart, but I've never seen convincing evidence that happens.

Michael

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 10:13:30 AM

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you know, I have never seen a whole episode of monk, just little bits and pieces.

so to me the real question miles is asking, short version, is---whats the evolutionary basis for "consent?"

ive said this before in another thread. theres a female sentiment that says "ive got the pussy, I make the rules" which implies that men want to be in the good graces of women in order for consent to eventually be gotten.

but I think theres an overruling sentiment that says "the only reason women have anything in the world is because men let them."

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 10:21:26 AM

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Are you seriously trying to argue that the theory of evolution justifies rape and creationists would never do that?

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RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 10:35:06 AM

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this is going exactly as Ithought it would, lol

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RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 10:38:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

this is going exactly as Ithought it would, lol

He should have just put it in P&R where the rest of the usual suspects can join in the fun...

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RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 12:52:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
You ask a couple of interesting questions, but I think I take umbrage with some of the words chosen.

Sure that's what discussion is all about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I'll work backwards ...

"Rape" doesn't exist in the animal kingdom because, by-and-large, the females of the species are more evenly physically matched with their male counterparts than human females and, if they're not receptive (either for physiological or sociological reasons), mating doesn't happen (in most species) because the females are able to fight them off.

Likewise you probably know that there a lot holes in your assumptions here. You probably know that in the animal kingdom the male is generally larger than the female just as in mankind so that is iffy at best.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
So, I don't think it's equivalent to compare humans to animals, in this regard. I will grant that males aren't ostracized by the society, when they make a failed attempt at mating. Make no mistake about it, there are some intricate animal societies (Baboons, Geladas, Chimps and Toque Macaques come to mind) and individual males will fight over mating rights, but societal penalties for failed mating attempts are rare.

Interesting, also as you mention here it is generally not the female that fights off the male but generally the "alpha" male that decides who will mate with the female and even then if a male slips in a "quickie" he is not generally ostracized for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Then, as regards your first post:

First off, man has only been around for a couple of hundred thousand years (I think) and there's no doubt that societal changes are sometimes "forced" upon a population that is not ready for them. That's what we call politics or social engineering.

The fact that the populace isn't ready for these changes is evidenced by the strong opposition to them.

I didn't intend for what I said to be a scientifically accurate statement of the length time mankind has been around, even scientists vary greatly on the subject. I only intended to indicate that at the speeds evolution seems to take, the time these concepts we are talking about seem to be but a blink of the eye and that it might take a couple thousand years to evolve to where these concepts become part of our evolutionary makeup.

Also the "politics or social engineering" you speak of may be relatively new concepts we are not yet ready for.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 1:01:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you know, I have never seen a whole episode of monk, just little bits and pieces.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
so to me the real question miles is asking, short version, is---whats the evolutionary basis for "consent?"

ive said this before in another thread. theres a female sentiment that says "ive got the pussy, I make the rules" which implies that men want to be in the good graces of women in order for consent to eventually be gotten.

but I think theres an overruling sentiment that says "the only reason women have anything in the world is because men let them."

I was just wondering about the seeming disconnect between the animals around us and mankind. In the animal world there is no seeming concern about consent or equality and yet for mankind it is a seemingly "big deal". So, guess part of my question is why is that so?

(in reply to bounty44)

RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 1:08:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
Are you seriously trying to argue that the theory of evolution justifies rape and creationists would never do that?

What? I guess I'm going to have to start call you froggy because you continue to jump to such farfetched disconnected conclusions. If you want to make this a "religious" discussion I suggest you start a thread about it in the forum about Religion.

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RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 1:14:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
Are you seriously trying to argue that the theory of evolution justifies rape and creationists would never do that?

What? I guess I'm going to have to start call you froggy because you continue to jump to such farfetched disconnected conclusions. If you want to make this a "religious" discussion I suggest you start a thread about it in the forum about Religion.

Reifne your sophistry or your rhetoric a bit, and there'll be no room for such "misreadings".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Evolution says mankind has been here for millions of years and so it would seem consent and gender equality are relatively new concepts and so it begs the question are they things that mankind has evolved and if not then has mankind had a chance to evolve in response to them? Or are these just concepts laid in a thin veneer over deep set evolutionary programming we have received over billions of years of evolution?

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RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 1:14:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

this is going exactly as Ithought it would, lol

He should have just put it in P&R where the rest of the usual suspects can join in the fun...

Hi froggy, I have yet to see how this subject fits into either politics or religion, perhaps you would be so good as to elucidate for us.

(in reply to WhoreMods)

RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 1:22:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

this is going exactly as Ithought it would, lol

He should have just put it in P&R where the rest of the usual suspects can join in the fun...

Hi froggy, I have yet to see how this subject fits into either politics or religion, perhaps you would be so good as to elucidate for us.

Because you're claiming that the evolutionary theory is even more evil than the fundies claim it is as it's there to excuse rape.

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RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 1:22:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
Are you seriously trying to argue that the theory of evolution justifies rape and creationists would never do that?

What? I guess I'm going to have to start call you froggy because you continue to jump to such farfetched disconnected conclusions. If you want to make this a "religious" discussion I suggest you start a thread about it in the forum about Religion.

Reifne your sophistry or your rhetoric a bit, and there'll be no room for such "misreadings".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Evolution says mankind has been here for millions of years and so it would seem consent and gender equality are relatively new concepts and so it begs the question are they things that mankind has evolved and if not then has mankind had a chance to evolve in response to them? Or are these just concepts laid in a thin veneer over deep set evolutionary programming we have received over billions of years of evolution?

Froggy, the only misreading is yours alone, because you seem to be the only one that thinks that this some sort of "religious" discussion.

This is a discussion about consent and in a way gender equality, I would appreciate your sticking to the subject at hand and not trying to change it so you can make personal attacks.
Thanx

(in reply to WhoreMods)

RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 1:30:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

this is going exactly as Ithought it would, lol

He should have just put it in P&R where the rest of the usual suspects can join in the fun...

Hi froggy, I have yet to see how this subject fits into either politics or religion, perhaps you would be so good as to elucidate for us.

Because you're claiming that the evolutionary theory is even more evil than the fundies claim it is as it's there to excuse rape.

Froggy, why do you continue make up reasonings that have not been stated or implied? This thread is not about evolution, it is about consent and what it is and how it is to be understood. Get with it or if you have nothing to add, get lost.

(in reply to WhoreMods)

RE: Consent - 10/29/2017 1:34:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

this is going exactly as Ithought it would, lol

He should have just put it in P&R where the rest of the usual suspects can join in the fun...

Hi froggy, I have yet to see how this subject fits into either politics or religion, perhaps you would be so good as to elucidate for us.

Because you're claiming that the evolutionary theory is even more evil than the fundies claim it is as it's there to excuse rape.

Froggy, why do you continue make up reasonings that have not been stated or implied? This thread is not about evolution, it is about consent and what it is and how it is to be understood. Get with it or if you have nothing to add, get lost.

You're claiming that there is no evolutionary mechanism for consent.
If there was anything else to your claims in the OP, you'd have an excuse to whine sniffily about that, rather than looking like an evasive little bitch.

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