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The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 7:12:00 AM   
Pangolin


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We discussed very often with people who were really daydreaming, but we had the feeling that these people were attracted by the idea of a BDSM relationship as they discovered in the "Story of O" and more recently in "Fifty shades of Grey"...

Real life that exists when the computer is switched off, with bills to pay at the end of the month is clearly not the frame where they dream their submissive desires.

Is it just us who have this feeling or not ?

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L&M

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 7:44:21 AM   
needlesandpins


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Each to their own. Lots of people are bedroom only. Not everyone has to live and breath BDSM. I seriously couldn't be bothered to waste that much energy on it. This is why I'd be very specific about what I want, and what I don't, if I were looking for someone.

It's also why you find many people with huge 'do me now' lists that claim to be subs/slaves. There are many that have been brought in by the books, and many don't have the first clue as to what they are doing, or what they really want, because the woman that wrote Fifty shades of shite didn't have the first clue about BDSM.

Same as anything else, choose your fruit wisely.

Needles

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 7:59:26 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pangolin

We discussed very often with people who were really daydreaming, but we had the feeling that these people were attracted by the idea of a BDSM relationship as they discovered in the "Story of O" and more recently in "Fifty shades of Grey"...

Real life that exists when the computer is switched off, with bills to pay at the end of the month is clearly not the frame where they dream their submissive desires.

Is it just us who have this feeling or not ?

--
L&M



Because, of course, there were never any fantasists with odd delusions about how S&M works before EL James squeezed out her turd.
There's enough wrong with those shitawful excuses for pornography already without retooling them as them something to sneer at newbies over. God forbid somebody who defines themself by their weal and twueness should have to give these poor clueless scum who should stay in the vanilla world where they belong a few pointers that might be more helpful, eh?

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 8:24:46 AM   
Spiritedsub2


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He’s a pompous twit who peppers his profile with French and thinks kink = dildos. Anybody meeting him would want to remain vanilla. Jus sayin.

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 8:25:38 AM   
Pangolin


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Maybe we shouldn't have mentioned "Fifty shade od Grey" which seems to be a sensitive subject, but the question would be the same with any book of movie which would be the backbone of vision of what a BDSM relationship should be for some people.

We mean that a simple sentence could take months if not years to achieve the real practice behind the words...

And so, if people are going very far in term of imagination, it will be harder to achieve something fulfilling in the real life...

--
L&M

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 8:47:15 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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I wouldn't call it poison. A dirty window, that provides a slightly distorted view, perhaps. To see clearly or truly know a thing is to experience it, and reading, fantasizing and thinking on things are experiences our brains have - so no less valid. An often first step toward the physical experiences that we consider "real"

I like the saying, "It isn't the destination that matters, but the journey."

For those seeking, who are more experienced (one might even say jaded), it can be frustrating to run into people who seem to be all about the fantasy, but those experiencing things for the first time have a lot to offer too. You get to relieve the excitement and wonder with them.

There are, of course disclaimers and warnings etc. but I'll leave those to others.

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 8:47:22 AM   
LadyPact


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OP, you do realize that for some people, there is no "goal" about it? There are certain people who fantasize about kink and that's all they'll ever want to do is fantasize about it. Crud, there are a good percentage of folks who only jump on the site during the holidays because they think BDSM sounds like fun to think about or talk about and that's all they really want to do. Are the folks who aren't willing to engage in a physical sense disrupting your ability to engage in kink?

Seriously, (and this is funny as hell coming from me) can the condescending attitude. You're not better than anybody else just because you're actively engaged in kink and other people just want to fantasize about it. As long as the fantasists aren't bothering you, I don't understand your issue.





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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 9:34:50 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pangolin

We discussed very often with people who were really daydreaming, but we had the feeling that these people were attracted by the idea of a BDSM relationship as they discovered in the "Story of O" and more recently in "Fifty shades of Grey"...

Real life that exists when the computer is switched off, with bills to pay at the end of the month is clearly not the frame where they dream their submissive desires.

Is it just us who have this feeling or not ?

--
L&M




When you go to the grocery store you are a customer. Vanilla, alternative yadda, yadda is irrelevant.

When you are at work, you are an employee or perhaps the boss. You will find teachers in schools and chefs in kitchen.

When you are at the store or post office or restaurant and your dom texts you to get your ass home NOW ... (capital letters from your master, owner, authority figure blah, blah, are usually words which best be noted) and in that moment there is a singular sort of clarity that washes over and you realize who is really in charge.

Do you continue to stand in the line at the post office even if there are ten people in line ahead of you or do you obey?

Do you leave your job if told or work the over-time? Would you put forth a command to quit a job? Vote a certain way? Fix your dinner?

I already know what I would do and did.

It is as real as you desire and make it to be so finding compatible cohorts is usually the best place to begin a process that really can go right up to dirt nap time.

Not everyone is for everyone.


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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 9:44:45 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pangolin

Maybe we shouldn't have mentioned "Fifty shade od Grey" which seems to be a sensitive subject, but the question would be the same with any book of movie which would be the backbone of vision of what a BDSM relationship should be for some people.

Oh, that's cute: why don't you nip down the front page a bit to the Gorean forum and tell them that they're a bunch of idiots because their fantasies and/or lifestyles are derived from a work of fiction and so won't work irl?

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 10:32:17 AM   
DocStrange


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pangolin

Maybe we shouldn't have mentioned "Fifty shade od Grey" which seems to be a sensitive subject, but the question would be the same with any book of movie which would be the backbone of vision of what a BDSM relationship should be for some people.

We mean that a simple sentence could take months if not years to achieve the real practice behind the words...

And so, if people are going very far in term of imagination, it will be harder to achieve something fulfilling in the real life...

--
L&M


Today it is "50 shades of Grey" that made some people curious, 15 years ago an airing of "Roseanne" at the and of the show and the grandma is in a leather catusit, or some other TV sitcom that shows some blip of kinky BDSM as a teaser, or a trip into an adult book store for the first time. It does not really matter how a person's interested in finally peaked enough to go into discovery.

Today if you have access to the internet, you more than likely have seen some type of BDSM. In some people this will trigger a response to be curious. Others it will not. While 50 Shades is not a good portrayal of what BDSM really is, neither is porn, any TV sitcom blip. But if it makes a person curious enough to go learn and explore, then I am not offended that is where their first interest came from. BDSM while more accepted is not mainstream. So you are not going to learn about it from mainstream. And I am totally okay with that.

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 12:12:06 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:


Oh, that's cute: why don't you nip down the front page a bit to the Gorean forum and tell them that they're a bunch of idiots because their fantasies and/or lifestyles are derived from a work of fiction and so won't work irl?



Damn it, you beat me to it!

Or Story of O which is over a hundred years old.

More importantly, why is the op targeting clueless fantasists to meet? Why isn’t he screening better?
Remember, the only common denominator in all your relationships is you. And that includes all these failed ones.

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 2:28:01 PM   
WhoreMods


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You're thinking of Sacher-Masoch and his boot fetish: The Story Of O was published in the '60s.
It's weird that it's only Venus In Furs that's seemed to have had legs out of the shitloads of Victorian porn that's been available for over a century. Hardly any of it seems to get printed unless a comics artist wants something smutty to draw that's out of copyright, and even then a lot of them seem to go straight to VIF: Crepax, Manara and Pichard have all taken a shot at that one, haven't they? Maybe it's Lou Reed's fault...

I think the good Doctor has nailed it: however the op feels about EL James, without fresh blood coming in, the scene is dead. If it takes a stupid book to get people curious, then that's easily worth a few clueless newbies who think that getting their labia clamped will win them a millionaire with mummy issues spoiling the atmosphere in his favoured play parties or fetish nights. It's not like anybody who expects the scene to work like that is going to stick around for long anyway, is it?

Of course, one thing I have noticed in the time I've spent online is that a lot of people seem to think that the easiest way to make out you're not a newbie or a fake is to accuse somebody else of that. Maybe Pangolin's just trying to cover up for his insecurities?

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 2:47:23 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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It's just you

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 2:52:43 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

The Story Of O was published in the '60s.

1954 actually

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 2:59:36 PM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

The Story Of O was published in the '60s.

1954 actually

My mistake.

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 4:58:24 PM   
DesFIP


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I was confused. Actually thinking of one of the original banned books, The Memoirs of Fanny Hill.



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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 5:46:01 PM   
longwayhome


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

OP, you do realize that for some people, there is no "goal" about it? There are certain people who fantasize about kink and that's all they'll ever want to do is fantasize about it. Crud, there are a good percentage of folks who only jump on the site during the holidays because they think BDSM sounds like fun to think about or talk about and that's all they really want to do. Are the folks who aren't willing to engage in a physical sense disrupting your ability to engage in kink?

Seriously, (and this is funny as hell coming from me) can the condescending attitude. You're not better than anybody else just because you're actively engaged in kink and other people just want to fantasize about it. As long as the fantasists aren't bothering you, I don't understand your issue.






I'd second that.

There are so many people doing so many things that looking down on others who seem less "serious" than you just because they exist seems a bit of a waste of energy to me.

Everyone has fantasies of one sort or another. There have been a number of threads on this, some on the judgemental side but occasionally there is a thoughtful discussion on the relationship between fantasy and reality and fantasists and realists. Some of the porn cliches seem a bit unrealistic to me as does some literature but then, despite having lots of real life experiences, I have to admit that I have the odd fantasy that is unrealistic for any combination of too risky, not having the physical fortitude or attributes or just because as a set up it would lose its appeal (in other words if there more than a hint of "do-me" or "do-it-this-way" as a sub the whole dynamic and frisson collapses a bit).

In practice I find myself as alienated by people who claim that if you don't live it properly you are not a twue Dom(me) or sub, because what "living it" means is different to different people. Besides which, taking it to an extreme, the people who scoff that only twue slavery without limits or release is the real deal and condemn everyone else as actors might suddenly discover their limits if they had a finger removed every day for real. A lifestyle with clear limits and non D/s space is not necessarily less real. My family and my ability to hold down a decent job is my own business whatever a partner of any description might think of our relationship dynamic, unless they choose to support me with either or both.

BDSM isn't an exclusive club that the cognoscenti have entry rights on. If people have unrealistic fantasies and bump up against those who participate in a more direct way, they can decide whether those realities attract them. If not they are not going to hang around for very long.

Sports clubs have people who participate, people who spectate and people who do both. There are also those who fancy the idea and come along once or twice. They either turn into one of the former groups or they lose interest and bugger off. Occasionally watching athletics on a TV screen is very different to being part of club or taking a serious interest. Some people however end up fully involved in the sport having initially watched the pale reflection on TV.

50 Shades is a very pale reflection and very different to participation. Some people always know they are kinky, some realise it more slowly or have their interest piqued by an external influence.

Ho hum - live and let live.

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 6:08:39 PM   
kiwisub22


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I'm one of the ones that was piqued by an external source. Some of my best orgasms came from BDSM erotica. I didn't realise it was "real" until I actually talked to a dom after a response on a vanilla dating site.

The first man I met, I ended up in a submissive/slave relationship, for five glorious years, until his death. I'm pretty sure that no-one that met us in real life considered my submission any the less real for being bought out by erotica.

We all have a starting point. And external sources only prompt something that is already inside us. ( or at least me) Some people are lucky enough to find that prompt early in life, and seems to be easier to access now than when i was a sweet young thing. I rather think the internet and easy access to porn has something to do with that. Probably why there are a lot of 20- somethings in my local area.

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 7:19:03 PM   
NoirMetal


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Be nice,these ancient divorcees need something to cheer them up.

It's the "Mooch slave" you have to be wary of.

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RE: The poison of literature... - 12/29/2017 11:12:07 PM   
DarkSteven


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My take is that women get bad takes on kink from books, and men do from porn.

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