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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 7:52:30 AM

kdsub

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Please feel free...with my permission....as a law abiding voting citizen to drink your coffee... but I’ll throw your butt in jail if I catch you injecting heroin in your arm.

Butch

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 8:02:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Please feel free...with my permission....as a law abiding voting citizen to drink your coffee... but I’ll throw your butt in jail if I catch you injecting heroin in your arm.

Butch

You don't get it, butch. You're not the arbiter. It's not "whatever butch thinks is alright is what we'll allow". I'm sure there's some "guilty pleasure" you enjoy that's not harmful to anyone else that you'd be pissed about if someone outlawed it.

I told you: I know what addiction is and what it can do and I think people that get high are any combination of stupid/ignorant/naive/spiteful/rebellious/whatever, but that doesn't give me the right (or obligation) to try to stop them from being stupid. My own family/children? Of course. However you, as my fellow American have no right to tell me what I can do with my body. Unless you're suddenly FOR people other than ourselves deciding if we should be allowed to marry a same-sex partner? Or, have you changed views on suicide?

Free people can do whatever they wish with their own bodies, as long as it doesn't affect others.

Ex: I can bang all the heroin I want, in my own home. I cannot throw my body off a highway overpass since there's a chance I might land on someone's windshield and cause them to have an accident.

You don't get to decide whether I'm "allowed" to drink coffee or not. It's none of your fucking business.

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 8:27:27 AM

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Its a shame more people dont believe...
"However you, as my fellow American have no right to tell me what I can do with my body."
and accord it to all americans.

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 8:44:03 AM

kdsub

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I don’t think you get it.... If my view matches the law of the land I do have power over you if you decide to break that law and I witness it. If you decide to drink yourself into oblivion and get in your vehicle and drive I will report you to the police... You will then abide by the law or spend your time in jail. This discussion is silly as societies wishes always govern the individual. No society can exist with total freedom of choice. The good societies provide a way for the majority’s wishes to make or change laws but they can not exist without them. Soon smoking pot will most likely be legal and the law of the law land... Then I would not have the right to stop you from using pot..Until then, at least in my state, don’t let me catch you... it will cost you money.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 8:49:38 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Its a shame more people dont believe...
"However you, as my fellow American have no right to tell me what I can do with my body."
and accord it to all americans.

I am assuming we are talking abortion and eating wedding cake if you can get it.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 8:50:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don’t think you get it.... If my view matches the law of the land I do have power over you if you decide to break that law and I witness it. If you decide to drink yourself into oblivion and get in your vehicle and drive I will report you to the police... You will then abide by the law or spend your time in jail. This discussion is silly as societies wishes always govern the individual. No society can exist with total freedom of choice. The good societies provide a way for the majority’s wishes to make or change laws but they can not exist without them. Soon smoking pot will most likely be legal and the law of the law land... Then I would not have the right to stop you from using pot..Until then, at least in my state, don’t let me catch you... it will cost you money.

Butch

I'm sorry, butch. My condolences stand, but as for this topic, I'm done.

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 8:54:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
That's frowned upon as well, but it would definitely be an option if you didn't have the constabulary confiscating the contents of your greenhouse should you have something that catches their eye growing there, true enough.

In Colorado, up to 6 plants per resident is allowable, with up to 3 plants flowering at the same time; there is also a limit of 12 plants per residence. There are also ways you can grow more, but what I listed were "homegrow" rules. You can grow more if you set yourself up with a license for retail sale.

I'm for full legalization, including home growing. Will there be more cases like kdsub's? Sadly, yes. Will there be more cases like kdsub's if there is no legalization? Sadly, yes.

How many horrible stories are there regarding alcoholics? And that shit's easily available, and there is a 100 gallon/person (200 gallon/residence) limit to the wine or beer a person can annually brew for personal consumption.

I'm dubious that legalisation or decriminalisation of dope would lead to more people progressing from dope to more potent downers: they don't seem to have an unusually high number of junkies in the netherlands, to pick out the most obvious case. In that respect your analogy with booze is well chosen: it isn't the easy availability of liquor that causes some people's first taste of beer as a teenager to lead to them drinking meths under a railway bridge twenty or thirty years later, it's a mix of an addictive personality and other psychological and social factors encouraging them to develop a tolerance to a level where they can't manage without a drink. If there was an inevitable progression from enjoying a drink to nonfunctional alcoholism then I'm sure the majority of this board would be self destructive piss artists as most of us are older specimens, and sure we've all had a drink or two at one time or another.

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 9:01:13 AM

kdsub

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Thank you again... I am done as well. I am bad enough when I am passionate on a subject but when emotion is added I cannot think clearly.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 10:10:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Its a shame more people dont believe...
"However you, as my fellow American have no right to tell me what I can do with my body."
and accord it to all americans.

You quoted without context.

"Free people can do whatever they wish with their own bodies, as long as it doesn't affect others. "

As has happened, and will likely happen again if you start an abortion thread, it's going to come down to those who you want to have no right to tell you [general usage from here on out] what to do with your body aren't doing so you're a woman or whatever strawman one wants to erect, but because they value the idea that the action you want to be able to wish to do with your own body will affect another who can not stop you and has no voice to do so.

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 10:13:10 AM

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And so yet another thread gets dragged into bullshit arguments against birth control.

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 10:21:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
That's frowned upon as well, but it would definitely be an option if you didn't have the constabulary confiscating the contents of your greenhouse should you have something that catches their eye growing there, true enough.

In Colorado, up to 6 plants per resident is allowable, with up to 3 plants flowering at the same time; there is also a limit of 12 plants per residence. There are also ways you can grow more, but what I listed were "homegrow" rules. You can grow more if you set yourself up with a license for retail sale.
I'm for full legalization, including home growing. Will there be more cases like kdsub's? Sadly, yes. Will there be more cases like kdsub's if there is no legalization? Sadly, yes.
How many horrible stories are there regarding alcoholics? And that shit's easily available, and there is a 100 gallon/person (200 gallon/residence) limit to the wine or beer a person can annually brew for personal consumption.

I'm dubious that legalisation or decriminalisation of dope would lead to more people progressing from dope to more potent downers: they don't seem to have an unusually high number of junkies in the netherlands, to pick out the most obvious case. In that respect your analogy with booze is well chosen: it isn't the easy availability of liquor that causes some people's first taste of beer as a teenager to lead to them drinking meths under a railway bridge twenty or thirty years later, it's a mix of an addictive personality and other psychological and social factors encouraging them to develop a tolerance to a level where they can't manage without a drink. If there was an inevitable progression from enjoying a drink to nonfunctional alcoholism then I'm sure the majority of this board would be self destructive piss artists as most of us are older specimens, and sure we've all had a drink or two at one time or another.

My apologies. I wasn't clear on what I meant. I didn't mean there would be a greater frequency of people progressing from pot to harder drugs I meant there would still be people progressing from pot to harder drugs, just as there will continue to be people progressing if pot isn't legalized.

I get the point that you're leaning towards there being a decreased frequency as the pot provider (for instance, a government dispensary) has no reason to push you into harder drugs, but there will still be people who will prey on those that smoke pot to get them to try harder drugs.

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A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 10:22:00 AM

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Its a shame more people dont believe...
"However you, as my fellow American have no right to tell me what I can do with my body."
and accord it to all americans.

You quoted without context.

"Free people can do whatever they wish with their own bodies, as long as it doesn't affect others. "

Yes, lucy was cherry-picking there, but I'll go with that for her benefit.

My quote:

quote:

"However you, as my fellow American have no right to tell me what I can do with my body."

was definitely given in the context of drug use, but since you wanted to drag it into a different realm, let me help you out:

I stand by that statement, but request to extend or amend it (with permission of the Speaker):

quote:

"However you, as my fellow American have no right to tell me what I can do with my body.

The law can be used to mediate how one free person exercises their rights, when it infringes on the rights of others."

To bring it back to the drug use domain: The law certainly prohibits nicotine addicts from indulging just about everywhere (even when using vape products which pose no health threat to anyone other than the user). Try walking out of a bar with a glass of alcohol. Most states prohibit it, unless it's in a "fenced-in, outdoor area of the bar".

Weak sauce, as always, from lucy.

Stand by for name-calling in: 3 ... 2 ...

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A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 10:24:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
And so yet another thread gets dragged into bullshit arguments against birth control.

Not bullshit at all. That is the main argument against abortion.

And, it's Lucy's snarky comment that introduced the abortion idea into this thread.

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 10:50:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I get the point that you're leaning towards there being a decreased frequency as the pot provider (for instance, a government dispensary) has no reason to push you into harder drugs, but there will still be people who will prey on those that smoke pot to get them to try harder drugs.

Who's talking about government dispensaries? I was thinking more of the fact that you won't have somebody urging you try some of this, that or the other, and maybe even throwing in a free taste because you're buying your dope from somebody who can make a lot more if you're buying something he can cut more heavily and put a bigger mark up on than they can with marijuana.
As for the other point, you'll always get imbeciles who think that heroin is so wonderful that everybody should be taking it. The only way to stop that would be to round up all of the junkies and get rid of them, and even if you did that, you'd probably still get some fuckwit who's missed the point of who's missed the point of William Burroughs thinking everybody should try the stuff.
(I'm always a bit surprised that the gateway drug argument wasn't spouted more about E. The early deaths from the stuff at the height of the rave thing saved the red tops the bother of having to invent scare stories, but I suspect a lot more people have drifted into a serious habit for uppers from taking ecstasy than have wound up as junkies from smoking dope.)

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 11:39:27 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I get the point that you're leaning towards there being a decreased frequency as the pot provider (for instance, a government dispensary) has no reason to push you into harder drugs, but there will still be people who will prey on those that smoke pot to get them to try harder drugs.

Who's talking about government dispensaries? I was thinking more of the fact that you won't have somebody urging you try some of this, that or the other, and maybe even throwing in a free taste because you're buying your dope from somebody who can make a lot more if you're buying something he can cut more heavily and put a bigger mark up on than they can with marijuana.

Some of those drug dealers also lace the pot they sell with the hard drugs without you knowing it... which is why imo people should be allowed to grow their own rather than take those risks with buying from someone else (including from so called "friends")...

Years ago I had a friend that developed MS and it hit her hard and fast.. she was bedridden for about 2 years and she was dead about 3 or 4 years after being diagnosed.. I often wonder if pot would have helped her with the MS, maybe giving her more years of life as she had a young son and her husband was unpredictable due to him having a brain injury (from a workplace accident).. But legalized medical pot wasnt on the horizon in Canada at that time..

Btw, Canada has had legal hemp farming for many years now, since the late 1990s, y'all get much of your hemp protein/seeds/oil, etc from Canada..

Assuming that the US Feds legalize pot at some point, I wonder what will happen to all those with criminal records due to minor pot convictions.. and I assume they would have to decide on those with minor convictions serving time in jail, whether to keep them locked up (at no small tax payer expense) or to let them out... however, I dont see the Feds legalizing it for a very long time tho...

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 1:50:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I get the point that you're leaning towards there being a decreased frequency as the pot provider (for instance, a government dispensary) has no reason to push you into harder drugs, but there will still be people who will prey on those that smoke pot to get them to try harder drugs.

Who's talking about government dispensaries? I was thinking more of the fact that you won't have somebody urging you try some of this, that or the other, and maybe even throwing in a free taste because you're buying your dope from somebody who can make a lot more if you're buying something he can cut more heavily and put a bigger mark up on than they can with marijuana.
As for the other point, you'll always get imbeciles who think that heroin is so wonderful that everybody should be taking it. The only way to stop that would be to round up all of the junkies and get rid of them, and even if you did that, you'd probably still get some fuckwit who's missed the point of who's missed the point of William Burroughs thinking everybody should try the stuff.
(I'm always a bit surprised that the gateway drug argument wasn't spouted more about E. The early deaths from the stuff at the height of the rave thing saved the red tops the bother of having to invent scare stories, but I suspect a lot more people have drifted into a serious habit for uppers from taking ecstasy than have wound up as junkies from smoking dope.)

I mentioned government dispensaries as an example of a pot provider that had no reason to push you to harder drugs. That's all.

There will always be someone out there looking to get people who are already using drugs to try harder and harder shit, even if they aren't currently your dope dealer. Sadly, there will likely always be junkies, as long as there is something they can get their hands on.

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
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Limited Government
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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 1:53:59 PM

kdsub

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It was me that put that thought our there not Lucy...although I do believe this was her intention I am not a mind reader... But I think it is reasonable to pick a time limit when abortion is not killing a formed human anymore than you jacking a load of semen on the ground. Or do you follow the Bible on that as well? You do know that your God may put you to death for doing it don't you?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 2:10:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
Assuming that the US Feds legalize pot at some point, I wonder what will happen to all those with criminal records due to minor pot convictions.. and I assume they would have to decide on those with minor convictions serving time in jail, whether to keep them locked up (at no small tax payer expense) or to let them out... however, I dont see the Feds legalizing it for a very long time tho...

Interesting thought project there. I don't know if changing the laws to legalizing will be treated the same as changing a law to make something illegal. If something was legal when it was done, later laws (ex post facto laws) making it illegal can't be used against people who "broke the law" before it was illegal. I posted the question on Facebook with a call to my friends who are "lawyerly types." I'll post a general response later.

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 2:18:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
It was me that put that thought our there not Lucy...although I do believe this was her intention I am not a mind reader... But I think it is reasonable to pick a time limit when abortion is not killing a formed human anymore than you jacking a load of semen on the ground. Or do you follow the Bible on that as well? You do know that your God may put you to death for doing it don't you?
Butch

I got it from Lucy in Post#43. Not sure where you put the thought out.

How do we pick a time before which it's getting rid of a mass of cells that may or may not result in a live birth (not all wanted pregnancies make it to term), and after which it's considered a human, with the full complement of inalienable human rights?

Please point to where jacking off is banned by the Bible. I honestly don't know of any scriptures that have legitimately been interpreted that way (and I am not a Bible scholar by any stretch of the imagination). And, I think it's already been explained that Christ's death on the cross alters some of the penalties for sin as put out in the OT. Now, Jews and Muslims might not agree, but that's based on their disbelief of Christ as the Son of God. But, as a Christian, the penalties in the OT have been changed by Christ.

But, nice try to play "Gotcha!"

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Why is marijuana [hemp] illegal ? - 1/2/2018 2:19:45 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

I see... you think potential life is the same as a fully formed life... is this right?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

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