RE: "No Tie = No Service"

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/2/2005 1:17:15 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessJules

quote:

Do Dommes normally have a made-up-mind of the outcome of sessions and relationships before the actual event has a chance to play
out? Is the outcome more important that experiencing the interaction?

This is the kind of question that is something like. . .
Do men usually want their dick sucked?
Do black people usually like friend chicken and watermelon?
Do Japanese people usually not know how to drive?
Are you seriously expecting an all encompassing answer in regard to what "dommes" (in general) expect?
J

*applauds*
Well said.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/2/2005 1:24:52 PM

proudsub

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From: Washington
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I'm not replying to anyone in particular, just have a suggestion for future meetings between Doms/Dommes and subs/slaves. Before the meeting ask how the Dominant would like you to dress. If it's a first time meeting and you don't think the request is appropriate then say so, JMHO. I always did this when i was with my first Dom and we never had a dispute about it.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/2/2005 1:55:19 PM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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I have often had subs ask me if I would like them to dress any certain way for a first meeting. Since I live in an area where beach attire is accepted in all but the ultra high end restaurants (the type where they run a credit check before accepting your reservations) I let them wear what they'd like. I do like that they ask though, as long as I do not get the idea they're trying to be told to wear panties or stockings. I do not like "leading" type behaviour such as trying to get me to "force" fem them. That they ask, even though I do not care, shows that they are already thinking of ways to be pleasing to me.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/2/2005 2:36:39 PM

Moleculor

Posts: 189
Joined: 5/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

I'm not replying to anyone in particular, just have a suggestion for future meetings between Doms/Dommes and subs/slaves. Before the meeting ask how the Dominant would like you to dress. If it's a first time meeting and you don't think the request is appropriate then say so, JMHO. I always did this when i was with my first Dom and we never had a dispute about it.

Heh. Uhh... I've read a thread or three before where women get insulted if a guy tries to tell them how to dress for their first date. That's another thing that's got me so bothered by this thread. It's "assumed" that women can just freely decide things for someone they've never even met before, yet if you try to pull the same thing as a guy, half the time you're shot down (the other half you can get away with it, sure, but it's still a double standard).

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Post #: 84

RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/2/2005 2:43:22 PM

GoddessJules

Posts: 549
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Hiya Beach! Happy New Year!

quote:

That they ask, even though I do not care, shows that they are already thinking of ways to be pleasing to me.

You seem really laid back to me so it doesn't suprise me that you wouldn't make a fuss over what someone wears to a meeting. But I'm sure you can concede that some women are more apt to look for the trait "they are already thinking of ways to be pleasing to me". . .and to show up not dressed to the Domina in question's standards might put her off (even to the point of not wanting further contact.) I can see how it might not bother some people. . .but I can also see how it would be a burr in someone else's chaps. I don't think either way is right or wrong. . .a simple compatibility issue.

What I *do* think this thread has done is to open the eyes of the guys out there looking to parnet up with the domina of his dreams. . .that they all have different expectations and that they should investigate and ask questions where they are unsure. Because it seems like if the guy in question had asked. . .he wouldn't have upset you (and it would have showed you that he was thinking of pleasing you) and he wouldn't have let down the person he went to meet.

J

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/2/2005 3:18:43 PM

willing2serve

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I have a question..or maybe I missed the answer......Is he a newer submissive? I know as a new submissive, my Dom said that he "preferred" that i wear a skirt. Well one day, i was feeling like wearing a chic pantsuit when meeting him. i quickly learned and was clueless to the fact that i had disrespected his wishes. I truly thought "preferred" meant that he would "rather" me wear a skirt, I didn’t realize it meant ALWAYS wear a skirt. it was strictly miscommunication as me being a newer submissive, not defiance at all. After he got his "striking" clear point across. I learned what "preferred" meant. Perhaps, you too, should give the submissive benefit of the doubt if he understood what was expected. What is clear to some, may not be to others, based on experiences and not just intellect alone.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/2/2005 4:17:53 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willing2serve

I have a question..or maybe I missed the answer......Is he a newer submissive? I know as a new submissive, my Dom said that he "preferred" that i wear a skirt. Well one day, i was feeling like wearing a chic pantsuit when meeting him. i quickly learned and was clueless to the fact that i had disrespected his wishes. I truly thought "preferred" meant that he would "rather" me wear a skirt, I didn’t realize it meant ALWAYS wear a skirt. it was strictly miscommunication as me being a newer submissive, not defiance at all. After he got his "striking" clear point across. I learned what "preferred" meant. Perhaps, you too, should give the submissive benefit of the doubt if he understood what was expected. What is clear to some, may not be to others, based on experiences and not just intellect alone.

you know, I don't think that's a newer thing. I think that's a "not being a mindreader" thing. Had a dominant person (even my dominant person) told me "I prefer you wearing skirts" I would have taken it at face value-- I like it when you wear skirts.

I'd listen to that, then wear what I felt best in that day.

I think the problems, again, come when communication isn't clear. Maybe I'm odd, but if someone wants me to do something, I rather expect them to -tell- me to do it, not to expect me to infer it or know it.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/3/2005 5:47:10 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moleculor

quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

I'm not replying to anyone in particular, just have a suggestion for future meetings between Doms/Dommes and subs/slaves. Before the meeting ask how the Dominant would like you to dress. If it's a first time meeting and you don't think the request is appropriate then say so, JMHO. I always did this when i was with my first Dom and we never had a dispute about it.

Heh. Uhh... I've read a thread or three before where women get insulted if a guy tries to tell them how to dress for their first date. That's another thing that's got me so bothered by this thread. It's "assumed" that women can just freely decide things for someone they've never even met before, yet if you try to pull the same thing as a guy, half the time you're shot down (the other half you can get away with it, sure, but it's still a double standard).

Angel sees no double standards IMO... thats just your generalization. (As a woman)If I am told that someone likes me in something in particular... then I listen and make the effort if i serve them.
I have a very good friend who is a Dominant. When we meet up for coffee or lunch, He has asked I wear (and not wear, in the case of my hat!) things that please Him. He will mention things that He likes and doesnt like(in the case of my hat!). To pay attention to what He mentions, then I see this as a way to honour Him and show my respect.(If you knew about how important my hat is... then you would know how big a deal that is...lol)

As for making a decision for someone one has never met before, I do not believe (personally) its about what is worn or what isnt... its how people receive information and deal with it. Does one inhale the information in and use it... or ignore and just carry on.
Its not so much the deed, but the reaction.

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Post #: 88

RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/4/2005 12:29:04 AM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessJules

Hiya Beach! Happy New Year!

quote:

That they ask, even though I do not care, shows that they are already thinking of ways to be pleasing to me.

You seem really laid back to me so it doesn't suprise me that you wouldn't make a fuss over what someone wears to a meeting. But I'm sure you can concede that some women are more apt to look for the trait "they are already thinking of ways to be pleasing to me". . .and to show up not dressed to the Domina in question's standards might put her off (even to the point of not wanting further contact.) I can see how it might not bother some people. . .but I can also see how it would be a burr in someone else's chaps. I don't think either way is right or wrong. . .a simple compatibility issue.

What I *do* think this thread has done is to open the eyes of the guys out there looking to parnet up with the domina of his dreams. . .that they all have different expectations and that they should investigate and ask questions where they are unsure. Because it seems like if the guy in question had asked. . .he wouldn't have upset you (and it would have showed you that he was thinking of pleasing you) and he wouldn't have let down the person he went to meet.

J

Happy New Year! *grins* It's being a wonderful year so far. Hope yours is too.

Oh I highly support any Domme dismissing any sub for any reason. I support dismissing them on a whim if she wants. That isn't the issue. What more got me was that she went on about how great he was and yet let communication issues screw things up. There are so few good subs and for a newbie to be great in all ways but an error of dress is very encouraging. It means he has the potential to be a superb sub. I know not everyone likes the idea of "training" a sub, but in my mind, no sub ever comes to me trained. He may know how some other woman likes things, but he doesn't know how I want things. I expect to have to tweak things even in a very experienced sub. I expect a newbie to screw up royally. I was a bit baffled by someone not wanting to take the time to polish the rock into the gem when it would have taken so little effort. I know it is a matter of personal preference, but when subs who are close to perfect are as rare as Domme, it seemed odd.

I agree.. communication is the key. I usually instigate it due to the fact that I tend to be a controlling bitch (woah, fancy that...) but when a sub runs into a Domme who doesn't volunteer what she wants/needs/expects, he should take it upon himself to enquire.. (If he wants to get and keep a Domme, that is.) A lot of them forget that when they enter our world, they are the supplicants. I find an amazing number of "subs" expect me to be life support for their fantasy. I have to point out to them that I am interested in submissive men, not men who have a submissive fantasy and want to role play it.

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Post #: 89

RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/4/2005 9:54:55 AM

ProtagonistLily

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I respect your opinion EStrict, however, I have a differant take on it.

One of the things I look for in a submissive, if I actually consent to meet them, is what kind of person they are. I pay attention to the details. Did he dress nicely? Did he wear appropriate clothing for the activity? Was he sloppy in any way? I prefer submissives who take pride in themselves, and have enough prior training, through either service to another or good upbringing to understand what social protocols are afforded.

Why does it matter that he didn't wear a tie? It's not my job to analyze whether Whipenrod's concerns are legitimate or not. They are legitimate for her, and she chose to bring them here for some feedback. I've been a little surprised at the lack of support that's been shown on some levels.

I think it's perfectly OK to have some misgivings about someone relative to dress or any other aspect of their presentation when you first meet. This isn't vanilla dating after all. A submissive is looking to serve me, in what ever capacity I see fit. I have certain criteria for the submissives I choose, whether it's a scene at a party, an ongoing part time relationship, or a full time relationship.

Rather than wondering if Whipenrod's concerns are valid, and encouraging her to give this submissive another chance, I think it's an opportunity for us, as Dominants to think about the little things, the little red flags, we saw but ignored in the beginning that could have saved us a lot of time with someone who ultimately, was not suitable in the long run.

I met an absolutely delicious young man last week. He's not networked in the scene other than having used Pros. He appealed to me on a number of levels...he was smart, articulate, a bit of a smart ass when the conversation allowed, was good looking and real and I enjoy the prospect of training someone for the first time. However, for what ever reason, he didn't think we were suitable for each other. I accepted it, and we have begun a friendship. If we look at this situation in the same light as the one Whipenrod posed to begin with, should I be asking him to give me another chance? Should I go to him and ask if there was some kind of miscommunication, and ask him to reassess me? I think not.

This lifestyle is challenging enough. Let's support each other.

Lily

quote:

ORIGINAL: EStrict

Honestly, I see this as a miscommunication, as much on your part as anyone elses. When he said why he didn't have a tie, if you did not make a comment about prefering one, how was he suppose to know you were disappointed? I acree with Moleculor. He is not a mind reader, and unless you told him specifically before the meeting that you had specific requirements, how would he know? He was clearly within the dress code of the place, and if he met their standards and this was a first meeting, how was he to know that he was breaking your standards?

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/7/2005 12:23:30 AM

EStrict

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I am kinda curious who you think I am not *supporting* and why they deserve *support* rather than honest opinions Lilly? I couldn't care less who was the dominant and who was the submissive in this situation. IMO the person who had *specific* expectations that didn't bother to speak of them in advance showed poor communication skills and will most likely find themselves disappointed again in the future if they do not work on their communication skills.

That is just a people thing. With any luck, both parties have learned something from their errors in this situation and will be able to avoid dissapointing/being disappointed in the future. Just because the dominant was the one disappointed does not mean they have not responsibility for their own disappointment. Communication is the key in ANY relationship, not just with BDSM communities, and mistakes are made on both parts. Any person who *never* makes a mistake, is, IMO, delusional. Mistakes are human nature. It is how you handle them that shows your true character.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 1/10/2005 3:16:42 PM

servantnj

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maybe no tie was his style. The question is does he look better with or without tie? i know he broke the rule, but aren't we all in this lifestyle by breaking the rule of society?

In order to answer this question, we would need more, very personal information about this gentleman, and the reasons why did he do that. But in my opinion it shouldn't be crucial detail, after all, who knows here, in which pocket of your coat you should put your gloves? On of the joy of BDSM for me is that each domina has her own interests and style, if everyone would follow etiquette 100%, serving will become borring, this way, one desire slave to stand on her right side, other to kneel on left etc.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 3/5/2006 5:33:56 PM

girlToServeYou

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You've got to be kidding me. Do you think having a preference to dominate rather than submit puts you in a position of superiority over another breathing human being? Judgeing a person for not wearing a tie, and not begging your forgiveness for it? Very shallow indeed. Perhaps it is you who doesn't deserve to be "served". Maybe you should have made an effort to know his heart, instead of critisizing him over a tie and making him feel inept. BDSM relationships are about mutuality, not getting your ass kissed over such a trite issue as to whether or not someone should wear a tie in order to earn the sheer priviledge of receiving your crop. Without a submissive, you dominate no one. You are not better than he. Its no one's job to impress you. TWO people either hit it off and impress each other, or they don't. Maybe you should look *into* a person, instead of being so wrapped up in something so superficial. He took you to a restaurant, instead of some dumpy diner, or to a cheap coffee shop and you have the audacity to sound downright arrogant because he wore no tie, and didnt apologize for it. Class in not in the way you dress, it's in the way you treat others. Furthermore you need to get this BDSM stuff into perspective. You are not a corporation; its a human to human relationship. You need to impress *each other*. One has to be worthy of BEING served, the other worthy TO serve. The name is Marie. Have a lovely day.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 3/5/2006 9:59:36 PM

Evanesce

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quote:

Its no one's job to impress you. TWO people either hit it off and impress each other, or they don't.

Bit of a contradiction there, isn't it?

When a submissive is seeking to meet a dominant, it most certainly IS their job to impress that dominant. The OP clearly stated she dressed appropriately for the evening, and the submissive did not. If it were me, I'd have thought the same thing. Underwear is just that - underwear. It should not be seen peeking out of an open dress shirt. Had he left off the undershirt, I'd probably have let it slide.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 3/5/2006 10:18:57 PM

ShadeDiva

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Noooooooooo it came BACK!!! I thought this one was dead forever! LOL!

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 3/6/2006 2:21:53 AM

MarinaBlack

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Personally, the only thing I want to see around a man's neck is a collar. I don't much care for ties.

You didn't mention that the restaurant management said or did anything about his being sans tie, so I'll assume it was okay with thier policy.

When I am feeling picky about a potential's attire for some reason - be it whim or dress code at a particular event/venue - I prepare the applicant with that information.

Sounds to me like he was well-groomed, attentive and even engaging. Good conversation is hard to come by.

In the end, however, you deemed him less than exceptional. You weren't moved. I don't think it was the tie.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 3/6/2006 6:55:05 AM

thetammyjo

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To the OP:

Did the restaurant have a dinner code he broke?

If not, I would have suggested that either get redressed to look more like he was my escort or removed some article of my own clothing.

Then again, what do I know, cause I'd be so amazing uncomfortable in such a setting anyway.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 3/6/2006 8:17:51 AM

collegebeauty

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It seems to me that if a place was nice enough that the OP felt the need to dress in her absolute best, it was nice enough that he should have been well dressed as well. The very least he could have done was button his shirt before meeting her. As a sub, I always ask if the person I'm meeting has any preferences about my attire, first meeting or not. One Dom that I saw for a long time preferred that I be in a skirt every time I saw him. My current Dom is uncomfortable with me being in any thing dressier than a casual skirt, and he prefers me in jeans. When we go out, it's typically to places that being in jeans is perfectly acceptable and as He is usually in jeans, he dislikes feeling underdressed when standing next to me. The sub meeting the OP could have been faced with a similar situation and so, in the absence of instructions, was comfortable. Again though, it seems as if this was inappropriate for the situation. Guess I can see both sides here. However, if you're going to judge him only on his attire, and not on his other merits, that does seem a little shallow.

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 3/6/2006 9:56:04 AM

girlToServeYou

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quote:

When a submissive is seeking to meet a dominant, it most certainly IS their job to impress that dominant.

No contradiction at all. It should not be a "job" to impress anyone. These are human relationships, not job interviews. You either have the chemistry or you dont.

You Said..."The OP clearly stated she dressed appropriately for the evening, and the submissive did not."

The problem is that "appropriately" is in the eye of the beholder. The submissive male was dressed "appropriately" for the restaurant.

Sorry, but it still seems very shallow, very trite and really not at all what relationships should be based upon. I have personally dressed pleasingly to meet Dominants and have never had a complaint, however, it's a choice to dress that way for a person when you *first* meet them; Dominant or not, they do not have control, unless and until a submissive gives it. Until a power exchage is set in motion by two individuals, it should be about mutually respecting one another. I do believe from reading all of the posts, that his effort was sincere, which is more important than a silly tie. Maybe he shrugged it off when she brought it up because he was turned off by something that he interpreted as unreasonable and deemed *her* unworthy of *his* submission. Clearly, Whipenrod had no appreciation for his taking her to a fine restaurant and she reduced it (in her own words) to him trying to "dazzle" her. Maybe he did it to please her and she couldnt see that through her apparently over-blown ego.

< Message edited by girlToServeYou -- 3/6/2006 9:58:13 AM >

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RE: "No Tie = No Service" - 3/6/2006 10:14:46 AM

girlToServeYou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShadeDiva

Noooooooooo it came BACK!!! I thought this one was dead forever! LOL!

Tee hee hee...Sorry! This was the first time I ever checked out the message board!

PS: You're very pretty. Love the picture!

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