quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
I am not calling you anything.

When you make statements about a group of people, you are speaking to each of those people within that group.  Since I am within the group you are making generalizations about, you are making statements about me.

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I wasnt refering to anyone in particular.

No, you weren't.  But you were referring to people- and I am one of the people in that group to which you were referring.  That's the problem with sweeping generalizations- they completely fall apart when you try and apply them in the real world to real people like me.

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 I do not think you lack honor.

But I am into financial slavery.

This means you either believe that financial slavery is not always dishonorable, or that you believe financial slavery IS always dishonorable, yet somehow also believe I, a financial slave, am honorable- which is a complete contradiction.

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We are all the sum of our experiences and mine have led me to certain beliefs.  Im entitled to those, regardless of who agrees or who tries to railroad me into a personal insult.  Its ok to disagree with something a person does, without condemning the person.

I completely agree.  However, your particular statements were about degrading people themselves- saying they lacked honor, saying they were co-dependent, unhealthy, and other things. 

You are making statements about what a person does and THEN saying that it makes up part of who a person IS.  If you simply said "I think this particular practice sucks" then we'd be having a completely different discussion.

What you said was "I think this particular practice sucks AND the people who do it are co-dependent, unhealthy, lack honor, etc."

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Why is it ok to make a sweeping statement that's positive, but not one thats negative?  

It's not actually- I've pointed that out to people who have done the same.

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Maybe thats why you're becoming so frustrated.

I'm not.  Please try and understand that any emotional response I have to this is "intriguing intellectual discourse and curiousity."  I understand that MOST people in the world can't make strong arguments without getting emotional, but trust me, I'm one of them.  I'm very well trained at it.  Any other emotions you are perceiving here are completely projectioned.

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"hey, LA, you give some guy your money and he takes it.  that makes you a piece of shit". Believe me if thats what I thought I would tell you that.

But you did say co-dependent, unhealthy, lack honor and other things.

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Let me ask you this.... Is there anything that you think is unhealthy or wrong or bad?  If so, would you say it here?  And would the whole world agree with you?? 

Of course I think there are things that are unhealthy and wrong and bad.  And I would and have told those people "You are being unhealthy if you do this."

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 Who are you to sit all high and lofty and judge whats irrational?

The one with the degree in philosophy.  That doesn't make me queen of rationality, but it does mean I've trained very well and very hard to understand exactly what rationality is, how it works and how to discern it.  I'm smarter than your average bear when it comes to that.

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  Did you just make a sweeping statement about my state of mind?

No, it was a very precise and direct statement.

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 Youre judgeing  me to be a nut, arent you?   You cant say im being irrational without calling me a pyscho. Why dont you just say what you really mean?  

Being irrational hardly equates to being psychotic.  It does mean you are somewhat irrational.  This is ok- most people are. 

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Should I say  "In my opinion  its wrong, but it may not be wrong for everyone?"   Would that make it easier to swallow?  That goes without saying.  when a statement is made, its clear to anyone with half a brain that its the opinion of the person who authored it.  

I'm afraid simply saying "It's just my opinion" doesn't hold water when it comes to not having responsibility for that opinion.

Since you dispute one of my points, I will ask two questions:
1)  Do you consider other forms of slavery to be healthy, honorable and not co-dependent?
2)  If yes, why do you think financial slavery is necessarily different from those forms of slavery?

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Look,  if we didnt have beliefs, opinions, judgements on what is good/bad, right/wrong, healthy/unhealthy, what foundation would we use to make decisions from?  We'd all be bowls of non-judgmental jello. 

And we've all seen me say hundreds of times that I'm all against being judgemental?

Hardly.  My issue is that you seem to be holding an irrational and hypocritical judgement about people and what they do.

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Youre addressing me for something that you feel is wrong. You said I was being irrational and hypocritical.  And I still dont think you see me as a piece of shit or as an asshole.  I think you just see me as having done something that you dont approve of, no? 

Being irrational or hypocritical isn't really something to approve or disapprove of.  

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  How is that any different than me feeling something you do is wrong?   And did you word it in a more palatable way for my benefit??  did you say ...." to me,  it seems irrational" ? Or did you just make a sweeping statement that Im being irrational and hypocritical? 

I'm using the basic laws of logic here. 

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Exactly.

I realize that pros exist to serve a fringe market-an overabundance of do-me male subs.

They will do what most Dommes refuse to-enabling various kinks to be played out-the bottoms way. I really have no issue with this form of bunsiess.

What I do take issue with, is the old female entitlement of cunt for money in more dishonst forms. It may have been a valid leveler in days when females were disempowered-but when you have equal rights under the law-it does make one seem more a whore for insisting on it-over simply desiring a time and attention focus from your male partner.

Instead, you have gold diggers. In a word, whores. Lying, game playing whores.

I have yet to see a woman who was bi or lesbian pulling this crap with a female

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Im taken zeno... and that wouldn't be a possibility even if I wasn't. You insult women wherever you go though.. THAT is a shortcoming... Good luck with that

On edit: I shouldn't have brought up your wealth, it is just I have had many a wealthy suitor in my time, and I have rejected them all, because people with money tend to think they are buying those of us without it, and I am not for sale. It also offended me to see you insult someone on this very thread for her weight because you did not like what she said... that is insulting to thin as well as heavy women because it is devaluing an opinion based on whether you find someone sexually appealing, reducing women to sex objects.. which is fine as long as they consented, but I do not think this domme did. It is a sister thing I guess, you got personal with Pandora, I got personal with you.. it isn't pleasant is it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
Having a degree certainly doesnt put you in a position to tell me what I was saying, how I meant it or what I "really" think.  Get over yourself and that degree LA.  How many times a day do you actually post that, and use it to make you 'righter' than someone else?   Why not argue the points instead of putting that up in my face as "proof" that youre right?   Honesty that comment made you look like exactly what you are, a 25 year old know-it-all, up on a high horse because youve manage to earn a degree.  Your posts are riddled with the same know-it-all attitude.  "Most people feel like this"  "Most slaves do this". "Most people wouldnt do that"...  At your age you know what most people think and feel?  You dont even know most people.

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Then when your hit with a sensible argument and valid points,  you use your degree to support the fact that you are correct, or should I say you hide behind it like it somehow exonerates you from having to actually support your own argument with this supposed expertise in the field of reasoning and logic that you wave around.

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Maybe you should ask yourself why you've decided the launch an attack against someone who thinks that financial slavery is trash. 

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 I notice you did this exact same thing to someone else on a thread yesterday.  You actually told them how they felt about their own sense of self in their relationship.  They denied it and told you that you misunderstood,  and you insisted that if they said "A" it just HAS to mean B.  Normally I wouldnt pull something like that into an argument, but it supports my observation that you actually think you're a know it all to such a degree that you know each person you speak to better than they know themselves.  Someday you will realize that your degree, while a great accomplishment, doesn't  automaticaclly make you smarter, better, more equipped, or frankly any "smarter than the average bear:"  Your posts on this subject, Im afraid speak for themselves.  

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ps:  A little bit of unsolicited advice.  Dont shower yourself with accolades and compliments about being smarter than the average person.  Youre most likely not, and well.....it tends to look like common bragging.   

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I'm confused. 

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ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Scott ... nice response ;)  and I totally agree with you about the animal kingdom not been a good comparison for humans ... but it was the continued point you were making of animals in dominant/subservient pairings/herds/packs whatever, the male is the dominant one because he has the sheer brute strength to force the act ... my tale of the stallion was to give an example of one of the animal kingdom not actually proving that rule. ... but while we are at it...if it is not okay for me to use an animal to demonstrate dominance & submission that I have seen acted out in the animal world ... but it was okay for you to?
 
It's rhetorical, btw

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I will say Marie that there are some generalizations we must all do in order to function in the world.. I agree with your estimation about 20 somethings, not that all 20 somethings fall under that generalization. We all have different experiences at different ages that shape our view of the world, of course 20 somethings have less experience than a 40 something, and different experiences. A 20 something can observe though, and can learn from observation.. they will try to make logical sense of these observations.. but as you know it takes the experience of life to own these experiences that can not be owned through observation.

I would never know what it is to be married for 25 years for example, I have never done it. Someone who has never parented a child to adulthood wouldn't know what that is either. We can understand somewhat through logic and observation.. but we do not know. Every stage of life has its pluses and it minuses. Some people never mature past their teens even though they are in their 50s, some people get stuck. Others have a bevy of life experiences while in their 20s. I had been married, divorced, a single mom, and a bread winner for my son all before I reached 25.. something that most people never will experience. It shook my faith in my logical ability to disect the world long before it was supposed to happen. It also deprived me of other learning experiences.. like making a one on one relationship work for many years.. because I didn't want to count on anyone else while I was rearing my son.

I bring the above up because many times we are condescending of the experiences of those younger than us, and that is as much of a black and white thing as what you accuse 20 somethings of doing.. I say let people be at the stage of life they have arrived at, usually we can make some generalizations about them, but people have a way of shredding our generalizations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Scott ... nice response ;)  and I totally agree with you about the animal kingdom not been a good comparison for humans ... but it was the continued point you were making of animals in dominant/subservient pairings/herds/packs whatever, the male is the dominant one because he has the sheer brute strength to force the act ... my tale of the stallion was to give an example of one of the animal kingdom not actually proving that rule. ... but while we are at it...if it is not okay for me to use an animal to demonstrate dominance & submission that I have seen acted out in the animal world ... but it was okay for you to?
 
It's rhetorical, btw

Jasmyn, I really don't want to make a career out of this. The horrible thing about debate is that you can pick and choose points to argue for or against in regards to your opponent's statements, and even gently ridicule them. But of the 'great' debates that I've seen and heard, one thing becomes very clear. The truth often becomes the casualty when victory is the primary goal. As such, the debate becomes useless towards understanding anything.

This is where I throw up my hands and abdicate, simply because it's pointless to my goals in understanding the world around me.

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I can at least say I've NEVER been accused of needing to be absolutist before in my life. 
 
The fact that its never happened before today, doesnt make the accusation untrue.  Logic 101.

In fact I've very often been accused of being "too mushy" and relative in my perspectives because I allow for degrees and contextual variances.

You havent allowed for anything but your own perspective here,  and being called "mushy" in the past, doesnt change that.  Logic 102

It's also a bit amusing that you're calling a bisexual polyamorous switch slut someone who needs absolutes

The fact that you are sexually diverse doesnt prove that you werent looking for an absolute.  Logic 103
 
Futhermore, to use your varied sexual preferences to help build an argument that supports denial of the fact that you were indeed looking for an absolute in this case, is.... well.....Illogical.   But then maybe its so logical that its beyond the understanding of the "average bear".  Roar.
 
Go on Marie, embrace your over generalizations and irrational and hypocritical assumptions.  They've served you well enough up till now.

 I didnt answer your question and go on with this because discussing something with you feels like im chasing a chicken with his head cut off.  The above statement is a prime example.  
  You are all over the place in your argument and Im beginning to think you do it on purpose when you see the oppositions point. Whats that they say?  "When you cant dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit" Look, The entire world is not going to march to the beat of your drummer, most of the world will never even hear your drummer, not everyone wants to, not everyone even agrees its drumming.  I would suggest trying to accept that rather than fighting so hard for someone to conform to your idea of what a drum should sound like.  I wish you well. 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

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ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

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ORIGINAL: zenofeller

Along with my apologies for being a tad absent lately, I bring you the latest in controversial topics, as customary.

This is not the latest in controversial topics.  It is the oldest, in controversial topics.  So I will give you "controversial". Because I am sure all you want to do is stir up the same old arguments.
As one who is such "an observer of human nature", perhaps you could try to bring something a bit fresher to the table.
I, for one, never noticed you were away.

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ORIGINAL: Kedikat

Overall I have no problem with what anyone seeks. If another gets satisfaction in providing it. Good for both.
The money for Dom/Domme thing is fine. But as in all the different kinks, it can have all sorts of motives.
I feel there are different dynamics entirely in a non direct financial D/s Kink relation. Be they good or bad.
To go forward with a person who puts up this kind of profile, you just best know what it is about. Be prepared for it to be possibly emotionless, business like.
If nobody gets emotionally hurt. It can be fun and good business. Just different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

this thread is most amusing. there's about a dozen people shouting different things in different languages.

to try and bring things back together, let's consider a simple question.

have you ever heard of a male faking orgasm ?

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ORIGINAL: Kedikat

Overall I have no problem with what anyone seeks. If another gets satisfaction in providing it. Good for both.
The money for Dom/Domme thing is fine. But as in all the different kinks, it can have all sorts of motives.
I feel there are different dynamics entirely in a non direct financial D/s Kink relation. Be they good or bad.