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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 3:36:28 PM   
Arpig


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Righteous...basic answer is yes. A marriage contract (note that it is called a contract) is basically a contract for formalised long-term prostitution with an exclusivity clause. Always has been and always will be. As to which party is the whore, who cares.
There is nothing wrong with being a prostitute, it is another profession that is all, but a dom (or sub) who requires money (or other material compensation) as a precondition to any "services" is a prostitute, gender is irrelevant to the issue.


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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 3:38:18 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
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wow... such a domly rant...
I really do not understand such personal attacks.
 
One person adds a post... doesnt matter if you think the persons an asshole or not.  Why cant people just read it and reply - OR just pass it by if they find the person so unworthy?  So its ok for pandora to wander her pretty little ass in and accuse someone of whining... but they are unable to respond with ironic humour?
I simply sit back and watch as zeno again wraps the world around his little finger.
Fabulous...
 
Oh and for the record... do not bring me up in your conversation again.  If you do not have something positive to say about someone, I do not really desire to be part of your 'petulant' posts.
 
Peace and Rapture


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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 3:44:56 PM   
cynthiamarie


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Joined: 3/11/2005
From: Bluefield, WV, USA
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zenofeller, I'd say that because of the ratio of men to women, many women find a partner early and don't need to advertise, or have put their profiles on hold to prevent getting unwanted spamming type mail, leaving a seeming higher ratio of Dommes who want tribute.

Some things to point out, just for the sake of debate:

Women test men, and just because we're into BDSM doesn't mean that courting rituals don't apply...the man still buys the flowers or candy, and pays for dinner and the motel, if applicable. 

Submissive women are often in lesser paying, service oriented jobs, and/or have many obligations to family and friends that drains their resources...many have custody of young children (financially much more draining than to the father who, from the women I know, pay anywhere from nothing to only $100 per month).  Why should these women pay for dates?  I don't understand why vanilla women ever pay for dates...they often become mere fuckbuddies to men who are not really interested in them romantically, and then the men use this saved money to pay for dates with women they consider hotties.  Most of the male subs I chat with have very good jobs and can afford to take a woman out on a date, and even pay for a hotel/motel.

I can understand why some women demand tribute, when topping subs that aren't theirs.  Men can be very demanding and a lot of hard work, and...many who want to bottom and explore BDSM play are very much "Do me!" subs.  When someone demands under the guise of pleading to allow them to serve me online, order them to beat themselves, etc. as if they actually could be serving me...I'm to follow the script they wrote and yet they are "serving" me somehow, talk about self-delusional...anyway, the random thought that goes through my mind is that they need to be paying someone if they want a performing monkey.

Buying the toys to use on them has costed me hundreds of dollars.  Same for clothing, and often not ones for me either.  I have NOT taken tribute, but I can see why others do...I pretty much wore my deerhide suede flogger out on one bottom alone.

You get what you pay for; either the payment is in emotions or else the payment is in another form.  Instead of asking why so many Dommes want tribute, ask yourself why so many males choose to be customers instead of boyfriends.

quote:

i mean, there's more women into cuddling than men, you don't see men selling cuddling services do you ?

Yeah they do...many women pay with giving sex and get hugs instead of love and commitment.

quote:

when did you last hear about a male dominant requiring "tributes" ?

Many do, but it's not called tributes...it's called "women's work", or supporting the Dom while he's down on his luck by sending him money or handing over all of your goods to him (including the title to the house and to the car).  I know this is not for everybody, but then...neither are Dommes who expect tribute.  They're a part of the lifestyle, not the only choice.

quote:

there's a distinct yet similar category, of women that don't outright beg for money, but still are looking for something very speciffic. a nice house. a better matress than they can afford. real wine. real kashmir. a better car. lifestyle as in plush couch not necessarily as in sweat and blood. all the bdsm contraption then become something tollerated, for the caviar and mumm, it isn't as bad as it seems, it doesn't last that long, heck, why not sort of thing.

Our actors get paid for their work...if she tolerates this lifestyle in exchange for these things, that's the working arrangement between two people and none of my business.  Nothing that could make me upset, or feel that anything is not fair.  This is the business of the parties involved, and doesn't affect me...except when males approach me expecting to treat me like a prostitute...but I figure these types were out there before they even met Dommes who demanded tribute, and I send them on their way to find one who appreciates what they have to offer.

quote:

most american's grand-grandmother was either an old world whore forcibly shipped to the new world, a woman someone bought for tobacco leaves, a black woman someone raped etc etc. all because there weren't that many women there, had to get the place populated somehow.

Some, not most.  *Imagines pilgrim women being ex-prostitutes and laughs.*  Many of us had our relatives come here after those times.  We had an influx of Irish immigrants because of the potato famine, and many Chinese to build the railroad, and negroes who were imported for slavery were not prostitutes.  Many became indentured servants and were brought to America because they were in jail over debt, and others became indentured servants just to pay for their voyage.  Others were indiscriminately rounded up from the poor parts of town just so the country could get rid of some of it's surplus population. 

My first relative here from my father's proud line was sent to America from prison, to avoid a death sentence from stealing a man's coat and cane.  Yes, it's in a book at the library, called Early Criminals in America or something.  He was an indentured servant for 7 years as punishment.

Ah, my proud heritage...*grins*

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 3:45:47 PM   
Emperor1956


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quote:

darkinshadows said:
Oh and for the record... do not bring me up in your conversation again.  If you do not have something positive to say about someone, I do not really desire to be part of your 'petulant' posts.


Sorry, it doesn't work that way.  You post in public. You don't own your posts, this thread or this board.  I know this is hard for you to realize - but you do not control Me.  If you don't want to see your name mentioned or your words echoed back, don't post.

And learn how to Left Justify...its not only a good idea, its the law.

Peace and love, honey

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 3:49:27 PM   
MHOO314


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You are a Dom, what do you care what women do? Being a Dom means you can command whatever you want---for free---so why do you care what women do?
 
 

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 3:51:01 PM   
darkinshadows


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From: UK
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That isnt what I said.  I simply made a request.  Take or leave it sweetie.
 
question - why do you feel compelled... to belittle someone though?  Honest question... doesnt matter who it is.
Why is it necessary to bring a private and personal feeling, into a public forum?  If you dislike someone, why do you feel the need to display it?  Is this all part of (in keeping with the op) conditioning?  Does dominance demand displays of 'who can throw _ oh my spelling sux btw edit* - the biggest punch'?  If females are nurtured and conditioned into 'taking'... is this same for dominant display?
 
Peace and Rapture


< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 8/9/2006 3:52:29 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 3:57:54 PM   
zenofeller


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cynthiamarie
zenofeller, I'd say that because of the ratio of men to women, many women find a partner early and don't need to advertise, or have put their profiles on hold to prevent getting unwanted spamming type mail, leaving a seeming higher ratio of Dommes who want tribute.


on the face, that would be a good theory. however, practically, if women do indeed find a partner easy and early, they're happy right ? are there much more women in a happy relationship than men ? no ? then ? where's the extra from ?
quote:


Women test men, and just because we're into BDSM doesn't mean that courting rituals don't apply...the man still buys the flowers or candy, and pays for dinner and the motel, if applicable. 

men test women too. is this testing some gender privilege you think ?
quote:


Submissive women are often in lesser paying, service oriented jobs, and/or have many obligations to family and friends that drains their resources...many have custody of young children (financially much more draining than to the father who, from the women I know, pay anywhere from nothing to only $100 per month).  Why should these women pay for dates?  I don't understand why vanilla women ever pay for dates...they often become mere fuckbuddies to men who are not really interested in them romantically, and then the men use this saved money to pay for dates with women they consider hotties.  Most of the male subs I chat with have very good jobs and can afford to take a woman out on a date, and even pay for a hotel/motel.

this may be empirically true, it certainly rings true. then, if that's a fact, would you say it means many women are not in bdsm for bdsm, they're in bdsm because there's men there and they need men for [fill in] ?

another point, if you win the lottery tommorow, were it fair that your corner deli starts selling you everything at double price ? cause you can afford it ?

quote:

t they need to be paying someone if they want a performing monkey.

no argument.
quote:


Buying the toys to use on them has costed me hundreds of dollars.  Same for clothing, and often not ones for me either.  I have NOT taken tribute, but I can see why others do...I pretty much wore my deerhide suede flogger out on one bottom alone.

this is a good point, but then why call it tribute ? it's really paying for wear and tear of the instruments, right ?
quote:


You get what you pay for; either the payment is in emotions or else the payment is in another form.  Instead of asking why so many Dommes want tribute, ask yourself why so many males choose to be customers instead of boyfriends.

the gist of the dispute however is that i consider my emotions priceless/worthless, and i don't see what's there to talk about with someone who actually has a scale. 10$ worth of sad ? puhleaze.
quote:


Yeah they do...many women pay with giving sex and get hugs instead of love and commitment.

question was, even if there's more women in the market for a cuddling than men, you don't see men selling it.
that;s about it, for now.

(in reply to cynthiamarie)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 4:12:51 PM   
Inhibitor


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I'm a bit more concerned about the "I was born to be worshipped omgbbq" line than the tribute bit.  If she wants money for services, that's fine. If she wants money because she thinks she's a special, unique snowflake who can telepathically transport to Mt. Olympos and commune with horses, she's been sitting in the bad section of Barnes & Noble for far too long. And I know many people who are caught up in that.

O great abuser of the astral caps lock key, we beseech thy questionable ass-talents and humbly offer up our bevy of Six Flags fun bux.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 4:17:26 PM   
zenofeller


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Joined: 6/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Inhibitor

I'm a bit more concerned about the "I was born to be worshipped omgbbq" line than the tribute bit.  If she wants money for services, that's fine. If she wants money because she thinks she's a special, unique snowflake who can telepathically transport to Mt. Olympos and commune with horses, she's been sitting in the bad section of Barnes & Noble for far too long. And I know many people who are caught up in that.

O great abuser of the astral caps lock key, we beseech thy questionable ass-talents and humbly offer up our bevy of Six Flags fun bux.


ditto. may your be here long.

(in reply to Inhibitor)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 4:59:36 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Yes I find it amusing that so many "slaves" and subs will gladly service their dom's cock, service the house, submit to enduring incredible pain, heck even get another piece of ass into bed to enjoy—but get absolutely horrified at the idea of being used for financial service (and it needn't even be actual whoring).



A very astute point.



To answer the original poster's question: that a male or female may be participating in a socially divergent way of life does not exempt him or her from the broader cultural influence of expected gender roles and behaviors. There is a lot of surface glamour to the so-called "deviance" of BDSM, but beneath that veneer one finds many quaint souls who still desire the typical picket-fenced American dream. In short, most are looking for a mate of some type under the guise of "master/mistress and slave".

Then of course there are those who have transcended the circus charade to embrace the terms quite literally. Master truly means a man who masters and "Goddess" is no longer a trite little title sprinkled in fairy dust. It is likewise a place where slaves—of both male and female sex—will serve in any way their owners desire, even if it means giving over their life savings and working full-time positions in a job only to come home and be shown the cage.

As one who has accepted "tribute" and gifts from servants and slaves, I suppose I may be labeled a whore as well? As much as I like that word, I can't help but feel it's off the mark—as it is so with many female dominants.

Of course there are pretending parasites among us who see nothing but material gain in exploiting the weak and foolish enthusiasts of BDSM, just as there are those who are propelled by nothing more than unabashed lust in their mock servitude. But I don't think we should allow these poor examples of dominance and submission to gain our attention long enough to ask something as negative and bitter as, "what sex is the greatest whore?" Giving credence to this question sticks a finger in the eye of those who earnestly live out dominance and submission in their lives. The question inherently subtracts from the legitimacy of the act and shows more than just a little level of judgment, too.



< Message edited by amayos -- 8/9/2006 5:03:16 PM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 5:00:06 PM   
cynthiamarie


Posts: 205
Joined: 3/11/2005
From: Bluefield, WV, USA
Status: offline
quote:

she doesn't pay uh. Hmm - well let's see now. i doubt anyone would want to pay a pro who showed up in her robe and slippers and a fly swatter. LOL - Oh this is going to be fun.

*Almost dies laughing*

Back to the author of this thread:
quote:

but then why call it tribute ? it's really paying for wear and tear of the instruments, right ?

It's tribute if the man is required to buy the flogger for her to use, yes...and how many men pay retroactively after the fun is over?  Not one guy has lamented over his ass wearing out my poor floggers, and kissed them and offered to make it all better.

quote:

if women do indeed find a partner easy and early, they're happy right ? are there much more women in a happy relationship than men ? no ? then ? where's the extra from ?

I know many happy women in committed D/s relationships, usually married and claiming to be soul mates.  Of course I know others who are still looking.  The women have partners, obviously, but there does seem to be a much higher ratio of men here than women.  Especially in chat rooms.  I'd say a higher ratio of women HERE who are in happy relationships than there seems to be in the ratio (aka hordes) of men.  The extra is from all the extra men I see and have chatted with...believe me, there's not enough of me to go around, and since most have never met me, I'm sure it's only because I'm female and available.

quote:

men test women too. is this testing some gender privilege you think ?

Yes, I know that as a female, I'm being tested by every serious male who talks with me and tries to get to know me better.  I am disappointed by ones who seem to be too indiscriminate to do any testing, who have no standards at all beyond...does she say "yes". 

quote:

would you say it means many women are not in bdsm for bdsm, they're in bdsm because there's men there and they need men for [fill in] ?

I was referring to the ones you mentioned who seem to be only in this for the perks the man can provide.  My entire life I've been uncomfortable with allowing a man to give me anything...probably had a lot to do with being treated as a young adult like I needed to pay in sex for the cheeseburger at McDonalds, and watching the men in my family enslave and degrade women through controlling all the finances.  BDSM allows me to trust certain men who give off the right signals for the first time in my life, power exchange for me is much more than rituals, whippings, and who gets tied up...  And a man who is "rich" or of "higher class" has a very hard row to hoe with me, I'm more likely to pass him over because I don't want to ever allow that to be used as a weapon against me to make me feel less. 

quote:

question was, even if there's more women in the market for a cuddling than men, you don't see men selling it.

Their choice...more's the pity.  Many times in my life I would have paid a man for mere hugs.  I could have gotten my emotional bandaid in place and then walked away without owing any emotional or physical debt.

quote:

the gist of the dispute however is that i consider my emotions priceless/worthless, and i don't see what's there to talk about with someone who actually has a scale. 10$ worth of sad ? puhleaze.

Deep emotions are priceless...the shallow and/or temporary ones are only worth what we are willing to pay for them.  

I think some target their ads to the seeming needs/fantasies of their potential clients. 

Maybe some need to make men pay because it is the last thing that many men are prepared to hand over...a true test of if he is really willing to be the submissive partner in all things.  I assure you, my mother, as the submissive partner in vanilla marriages, always had to hand over all of her paycheck...my father even turned up at her job at the start of her lunch break so that he could take it from her and cash it, so she never even saw her own money.  If someone grew up in such a home, I can visualize how some would feel more comfortable in the dominant role.

 The man would have no secret stash of money to spend on his piece on the side...no money for hookers...no money for lap dances at strip bars...no money to go out with the boys and get drunk night after night.  Financial domination sounds appealing when thought of in these terms.  If I were someone who would live to be an old lady I'd consider it, but as things are right now, I wouldn't want someone that dependent on me. 

< Message edited by cynthiamarie -- 8/9/2006 5:01:14 PM >

(in reply to zenofeller)
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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 5:24:38 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
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From: Georgia
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Trying to see both sides of this, if you think prostitution is morally wrong, why are not Dom type pimps criticised more? I see proDommes slammed, but have never seen a Dom pimp who rents out a slave for a weekend scene blasted. Or maybe he gives her to a friend for a favor that is a thinly veiled financial gain. What's the difference?

_____________________________

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(in reply to cynthiamarie)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 5:31:10 PM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
Of course there are pretending parasites among us who see nothing but material gain in exploiting the weak and foolish enthusiasts of BDSM, just as there are those who are propelled by nothing more than unabashed lust in their mock servitude. But I don't think we should allow these poor examples of dominance and submission to gain our attention long enough to ask something as negative and bitter as, "what sex is the greatest whore?" Giving credence to this question sticks a finger in the eye of those who earnestly live out dominance and submission in their lives. The question inherently subtracts from the legitimacy of the act and shows more than just a little level of judgment, too.


very well said. and so it is, about the devils of discussing the point.

should i pick my own brushes and paint the devils of shoving the point under the rug ? or can you imagine it and save me the trouble ?

quote:


Not one guy has lamented over his ass wearing out my poor floggers, and kissed them and offered to make it all better.


heheheh. cheers.

quote:


Their choice...more's the pity.

no, really, i can't argue with you. stop making me laugh i might come up with a point or something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain
Trying to see both sides of this, if you think prostitution is morally wrong,


i don't think that. i think certain forms of whoring out are in bad taste. that's about all. depending exactly how the male does the sub-sub-letting ( :p ) it could be in poor taste or not.

morally wrong, heck, i can't find em and now i don't remember if i ever had em.

< Message edited by zenofeller -- 8/9/2006 5:33:11 PM >

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 5:47:56 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

very well said. and so it is, about the devils of discussing the point.

should i pick my own brushes and paint the devils of shoving the point under the rug ? or can you imagine it and save me the trouble?


Rather something of a less somber shade? A well suffered cautionary tale or perhaps good advice on spotting the meanies? That way there we needn't waste so much paint on devils.

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 6:16:55 PM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
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well, yes, we'd spend less time painting devils, buuut we'd spend more time taking people's advice. compared to that, the devil of drawing your own conclusions is, well... epsilon.

besides, i got all this paint on sale when they foreclosed on that guy's barrel.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 7:15:32 PM   
Domwidower


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I understand that the focus of this discussion is on the Dommes who request tribute. But it seems to me, that if that is part of the type of submissions the individuals paying this "tribute" choose to pay, then why should they not accept it. We are all here consentually, I hope, and have the right to walk away from any situation we dont like. To demonstrate submission through financial support, contributing to housework, sexual service, or as a painslave all are ways of submission, and each Dom/Domme and sub develop thier own rules in this area.  I for one am happy for anyone who knows what they want and gets thier needs appropriately.

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 7:23:57 PM   
gestapa05


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The choice to pay is up to the individual.  Choice...

(in reply to Domwidower)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 7:52:26 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Trying to see both sides of this, if you think prostitution is morally wrong, why are not Dom type pimps criticised more? I see proDommes slammed, but have never seen a Dom pimp who rents out a slave for a weekend scene blasted. Or maybe he gives her to a friend for a favor that is a thinly veiled financial gain. What's the difference?

Let's just say he always was in the chat rooms when I dared to bring it up.

I think the difference is that fewer male doms encourage or get into renting or trading their slaves like that, far fewer female subs accept such relationships.  So it doesn't get discussed very often.

But I can say that every time I've discussed it, it has been met with a nearly complete wall of "He's a pimp and you're just being used and abused."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 8:05:08 PM   
zenofeller


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People behind walls have no clue. "Just a pimp" ? heh. just an office drone, yea. i can see that. just a corporate brown noser, just an ice truck driver, just a tech support guy. sure.

being a pimp is more complicated an activity than most people realise. it's akin to being a doctor, a lawyer, a writer. it's a liberal profession.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 8:21:10 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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If you are employed.. and if you get any kind of paycheck.. does that make you a whore because you feel entitled to be paid for a service provided?   You spent your 8 hours or more satifying some other's need to have you there.. what's the difference.


This is a rhetorical question posted for your ponderance.

(This is not directed to misturbation's comments.. I juxst happened to be in that area and hit the post button)

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 8/9/2006 8:22:33 PM >


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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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Profile   Post #: 60
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