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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 8:25:42 PM

zenofeller

Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
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certainly you are. there's no difference.

was this supposed to be some sort of mind blowing thing ? cause it's kinda patently obvious. employee, whore, small penis, tiny penis, why quibble over details.

(in reply to LotusSong)

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 9:32:33 PM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Yes I find it amusing that so many "slaves" and subs will gladly service their dom's cock, service the house, submit to enduring incredible pain, heck even get another piece of ass into bed to enjoy—but get absolutely horrified at the idea of being used for financial service (and it needn't even be actual whoring).

A very astute point.

To answer the original poster's question: that a male or female may be participating in a socially divergent way of life does not exempt him or her from the broader cultural influence of expected gender roles and behaviors. There is a lot of surface glamour to the so-called "deviance" of BDSM, but beneath that veneer one finds many quaint souls who still desire the typical picket-fenced American dream. In short, most are looking for a mate of some type under the guise of "master/mistress and slave".

Then of course there are those who have transcended the circus charade to embrace the terms quite literally. Master truly means a man who masters and "Goddess" is no longer a trite little title sprinkled in fairy dust. It is likewise a place where slaves—of both male and female sex—will serve in any way their owners desire, even if it means giving over their life savings and working full-time positions in a job only to come home and be shown the cage.

As one who has accepted "tribute" and gifts from servants and slaves, I suppose I may be labeled a whore as well? As much as I like that word, I can't help but feel it's off the mark—as it is so with many female dominants.

Of course there are pretending parasites among us who see nothing but material gain in exploiting the weak and foolish enthusiasts of BDSM, just as there are those who are propelled by nothing more than unabashed lust in their mock servitude. But I don't think we should allow these poor examples of dominance and submission to gain our attention long enough to ask something as negative and bitter as, "what sex is the greatest whore?" Giving credence to this question sticks a finger in the eye of those who earnestly live out dominance and submission in their lives. The question inherently subtracts from the legitimacy of the act and shows more than just a little level of judgment, too.

In short, what I get from this is that it's basically ok to take 'tribute' or money as long as you're "earnestly living out dominance and submission", but if you're just a "pretending parasite" it then becomes dishonorable to take the $$ ??

Isnt taking tribute taking tribute? Or does taking tribute become more virtuous under certain circumstances?

Edited for a typo

< Message edited by marieToo -- 8/9/2006 9:34:08 PM >

(in reply to amayos)

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 9:59:40 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Ok.. so what would make you guys happy? Men speak derogatorily of women who give sex freely., Then call them the same if they charge you for it. If the choice is only being a poor whore or a rich whore.. which would YOU choose?

Just accept it.. we have you by the proverbial balls. You can pay for it and thus be the victim of your own need.. or you might even think you can take it and we will drive you to your spiritrual knees.. in court.

Or we can say "screw this" and jerk off to porno ,and then where will you all be?

You still paid for the porno.. so I guess there is no ass for free...

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(in reply to Homestead)

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 10:23:18 PM

SweetDommes

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Without reading the whole thread, I have to say that we have been approached many many MANY times by guys who wanted to be house-husbands ... stay at home, take care of the house, so on ... sounds good, until they start mentioning that they will never work a day outside the house so that they can be "devoted" to us - so they help run up the bills without helping to pay for them. Then they mention how they will stay in their cage while they are not actively serving - and who is going to pay for said cage? Us, of course. And will they turn over any money that they currently have, to help out with paying for their living expenses? Oh HELL no - that's THEIR money ... how can we even suggest that they help buy groceries and pay for the electric bill?

Personally, I think that there are just as many guys out there looking for a sugar-momma as there are women looking for a sugar-daddy - the guys just tend to hide it better.

< Message edited by SweetDommes -- 8/9/2006 10:27:46 PM >

(in reply to missturbation)

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 10:40:49 PM

LordDarkPleasure

Posts: 91
Joined: 4/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Ok.. so what would make you guys happy? Men speak derogatorily of women who give sex freely., Then call them the same if they charge you for it. If the choice is only being a poor whore or a rich whore.. which would YOU choose?

Just accept it.. we have you by the proverbial balls. You can pay for it and thus be the victim of your own need.. or you might even think you can take it and we will drive you to your spiritrual knees.. in court.

Or we can say "screw this" and jerk off to porno ,and then where will you all be?

You still paid for the porno.. so I guess there is no ass for free...

no free porno on the internet? on what planet do you live? hehe

(in reply to juliaoceania)

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 10:53:56 PM

MsBriarRose

Posts: 6
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The largest group in the het kink community is male submissives. Next is female submissives, followed by male Doms, with the smallest group being female Dommes. Most believe this misbalance is what allows for females to be able to demand and get tribute. However there is a second way to look at the issue. What is money? It is a physical representation of the value of hours worked. In the end, it is a chit you are given as value for what you did. A Domme is considered normal if she demands a sub give her time or work. Why is it wrong for her to insist he work hours and give her the money? What is wrong, and it is not limited in any way to financial Dommes, is for any Domme to ignore the needs of a sub they accept service from. This is inexcusable. The gift they give, no matter the form you accept it in, is precious. And a true sub is a jewel that must be cared for as the valuable thing that it is.

(in reply to zenofeller)

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 10:58:27 PM

BlkTallFullfig

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
so, the question is, do you belive that females more than males whore it out for material advantage in the bdsm community ? or is the above just an internet artefact ?

No, I don't think they do... I do think they're more honest about their motives perhaps.
The majority of what is on the net if one were looking for people who are honest/available for a relationship, is artifact, so than who cares what the artifact shows up on the screen as? The most one can hope for is to run into non-artifact (new word to replace phony vs real, lol). M

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(in reply to zenofeller)

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 11:20:28 PM

zenofeller

Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
You still paid for the porno.. so I guess there is no ass for free...

no, actually, porn as a business model is dead. there's so much stuff you can get for free nowadays, it's insane. i'm willing to bet your average 12 to 48 year old male is sitting on 2-3 Gbytes of porn. That comes to 2-300 Peta Bytes all over America, or maybe a conservative 5000 years worth of reel. so, forget about that. only way you get money out of people for porn is if they want to, cause they sure as hell don't need to. there's no clit & tit footage shortage.

quote:

the guys just tend to hide it better.

what's this, conspiracy theory 101 ?

quote:

A Domme is considered normal if she demands a sub give her time or work. Why is it wrong for her to insist he work hours and give her the money?

the situation would be similar to me walking up to the counter, ordering a club sandwich and then taking 10$ outta the register. either i take the sub and give the money or give the sub and take the money. i can't at the same time be getting both. it's strange that women have to be explained this, and men don't. it's even stranger that women have to be explained this EVERY SINGLE SEPARATE INSTANCE.

< Message edited by zenofeller -- 8/9/2006 11:21:21 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 11:31:06 PM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

In short, what I get from this is that it's basically ok to take 'tribute' or money as long as you're "earnestly living out dominance and submission", but if you're just a "pretending parasite" it then becomes dishonorable to take the $$ ??

Yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
Isnt taking tribute taking tribute?

Is this leading to the idea of a whore is a whore is a whore?

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
Or does taking tribute become more virtuous under certain circumstances?

Just as sacrifice can be in vain, so too can it be for a good cause. Nowhere is this choice more grave than when it is carried out in blood. To know your Goddess sees you as a true acolyte who offers gifts out of love and adoration is far different than being the cash cow of a pretty twenty-something blonde who haphazardly learned about the money slavery buzz, and overnight decided to become a transient "Money Domme".

< Message edited by amayos -- 8/9/2006 11:41:53 PM >

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/9/2006 11:42:51 PM

SweetDommes

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Joined: 10/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

quote:

the guys just tend to hide it better.

what's this, conspiracy theory 101 ?

No conspiracy, no theory ... simple fact. No one (that I've noticed) ever points out all of the male submissives who state in their profiles that they are the perfect houseboy, even though when most of the guys with profiles like that are talked to, they say that they want to stay at home, not work at a real job ... so what is the difference between a male submissive stating this and a female submissive stating it? Not much, other than wording and perspective. And I've seen a male Dominant or two stating that their submissives will be expected to support them. So why is everyone so down on women who do it? Because they are more blatent about it? That seems to be the main diference.

(in reply to zenofeller)

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/10/2006 12:44:00 AM

Kedikat

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That Domme is a slave to money.
Can't buy respect.

(in reply to zenofeller)

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/10/2006 1:36:51 AM

zenofeller

Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
To know your Goddess sees you as a true acolyte who offers gifts out of love and adoration is far different than being the cash cow of a pretty twenty-something blonde who haphazardly learned about the money slavery buzz, and overnight decided to become a transient "Money Domme".

far different it may well be, but is it quantifiably different ? can you show this difference in laboratory settings ? becayse otherwise it is all in your head :p

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/10/2006 1:38:34 AM

zenofeller

Posts: 463
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes
No conspiracy, no theory ... simple fact. No one (that I've noticed) ever points out all of the male submissives who state in their profiles that they are the perfect houseboy, even though when most of the guys with profiles like that are talked to, they say that they want to stay at home, not work at a real job ... so what is the difference between a male submissive stating this and a female submissive stating it? Not much, other than wording and perspective. And I've seen a male Dominant or two stating that their submissives will be expected to support them. So why is everyone so down on women who do it? Because they are more blatent about it? That seems to be the main diference.

well, we could agree women are more blatant about it. that doesn't make men better at hiding it, as you originally said. it could very well be that they just do it less.

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/10/2006 2:18:34 AM

ExSteelAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

People behind walls have no clue. "Just a pimp" ? heh. just an office drone, yea. i can see that. just a corporate brown noser, just an ice truck driver, just a tech support guy. sure.

being a pimp is more complicated an activity than most people realise. it's akin to being a doctor, a lawyer, a writer. it's a liberal profession.

As an aside, I agree that being a successful pimp is an accomplishment, even if I don't agree with it morally. I read Iceberg Slim, Diary of a Pimp, years ago and was impressed by his intelligence and so on. He became something of a celebrity and appeared on TV talk shows.

Many, many of the techniques he used were M/s, bdsm oriented and something I have never forgotten. I remember one passage that when all else failed, he would whip a recalcitrant girl until she spaced and settled back to being a hard worker for him. He knew how to flog with the best of us.

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/10/2006 2:31:37 AM

Inhibitor

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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Just as sacrifice can be in vain, so too can it be for a good cause. Nowhere is this choice more grave than when it is carried out in blood. To know your Goddess sees you as a true acolyte who offers gifts out of love and adoration is far different than being the cash cow of a pretty twenty-something blonde who haphazardly learned about the money slavery buzz, and overnight decided to become a transient "Money Domme".

I'd agree wholeheartedly with one caveat: how can currency be a "gift" in the sense you describe? If a gift is given in love, I'd hope it'd have some kind of personal value or meaning, even if it's a simple guess as to someone's taste. It may well be a result of my reaction to our festering capitalism, but I'm hard put to see money as being a kind of acknowledgement of another's soul. We use money to get things that otherwise wouldn't be ours, so I see no place for it in an honest relationship.
If it is offered as needed assistance, I'd see it differently...but then, that'd be "help," not "tribute," yes?

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/10/2006 2:44:28 AM

zenofeller

Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain
I remember one passage that when all else failed, he would whip a recalcitrant girl until she spaced and settled back to being a hard worker for him. He knew how to flog with the best of us.

ofcourse, that would be the most morally objectionable part of the entire thing. 12 year old thai girl shipped to the US for a better life in a fucking container, landed in ny harbor, picked up by pimp, whipped senseless, "spaced and settled back" 50 times over the next two decades. not nice.

as for your kerouac interest, i lived 5 months in lowell, mass. hows that ?

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/10/2006 3:40:08 AM

CuteIrishM4F

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Zenofeller

quote:

i mean, there's more women into cuddling than men, you don't see men selling cuddling services do you ?

Check out my post on 'a question of pro-subs. Its all about the possibilities of male submissives becoming professional in order to offer high quality services to professional women, who happen to be dominant, but don't have the time to do anything about or want it in their personal life.

AAkasha

quote:

Sadly, it's supply and demand. Based on the numbers of women "demanding" tributes, how many sub men out there are obviously dopey enough to fall for it? Men should be talking to each other about NOT supporting these women

This is a great point. Sadly my experiances so far reflect the 'preying Pro-Domme/stupid submale' scenario. I'm just lucky i got the right advice from some nice folks here before i made a big mistake.

sub4hire

quote:

men would demand it too. If there weren't so many of them

Again, see the threas on 'pro-subs'!

Lashra

quote:

Actually in the animal kingdom the male has to compete/fight for the right to mate with the Alpha female, at least in most species. It is not something that is a given, the Alpha female can reject the male and no mating between the pair will take place.

In humans though this is nothing but conditioning. Most females have been conditioned to believe that they need a male to be the provider and that they as women need to stay home and take care of home and children. Therefore women are taught to use their good looks(sexuality), submissiveness(feigned or natural) and good cooking will get you that mate.

Unfortunately this is also very true. Whatever about our instinctual processes, there is a lot going on that is constructed by society, and we have only ourselves to blame for reinforcing and perpetuating it. There was a great thread on 'should Doms be gentlemen' that sparked a really interesting conversation on chivalry and how important it can be to maintain order within this false structure we call society. Our animal instincts need self control (especially men's), and the mating game Lashra mentioned is in part designed to make a man control both his animal side and his 'civilized' side all at once. In short, it works. But since Professional services, either for Domination or submission, are almost exclusively the domain of women (rightly said by sub4hire and AAkasha, due to numbers), what can be done about it?

althalus.

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/10/2006 3:42:38 AM

mons

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greeting to all

I am shock at your statement why some women were use, do you know anything so history. of the usa? if you did you would not pull a statement about the black woman being raped out of you hat. here is a small history lesson, these woman were not raped becasue there were not other around. they were use becase they were proverty of the master and yes the master had wives. they did it because they could, plain and simply. do not make what you think yoiu know a joke that was a horrible thing this is different and oh no they were not paid they were whipped. this is a submject no one likes to hear of.

when talking of modern days dommes and doms know what you will say, as for the years of abuse for many afircans read up on what happen to them i will subject a book LIFE OF A SLAVE GIRL i may have th title wrong but i will make sure it is write then and only then please take the time top know what you speak of it is not a joke if someone is raped. i remember when someone was raped in my family that man beat her so badly it was so horrible i will never forgive her beaten face/

speak of whores but pick the subject more and think. i know you will write me a long letter telling me off it does not matter what matter is you shoould know your history. ok

mons

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/10/2006 5:16:15 AM

Jasmyn

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I'd like to ask all those men, male doms and subs, if they respect women ... not 'a woman', but 'women' in general ... cause it sure as hell reads ... a great deal of you don't ...yet you're all happy to make 'whores' of your women ... but it does your head in if she makes herself one ... farken classic ... let it go boys ... as a woman, it's my cunt, I'll do whatever I want with it ... now, those boys who wish to kiss my arse, can form an orderly line and msg me on the other side.

Jasmyn ...goes back to her knitting

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RE: Doms and whores. - 8/10/2006 6:16:59 AM

cloudboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Yes I find it amusing that so many slaves and subs will gladly service their dom's cock, service the house, submit to enduring incredible pain, heck even get another piece of ass into bed to enjoy- but get absolutely horrified at the idea of being used for financial service (and it needn't even be actual whoring).

Male doms tend to ask for things like sex or for the sub to wear a particular something on a first date instead of asking for outright tribute- both are for the same purpose however.

The difference is that what male doms ask for is an end in-and-of-itself, whereas what the OP's FEMDOM asks for is a means to another end. When I give you money, I am not giving you anything of myself. Such a transaction is completely impersonal. When I make you dinner, send you a personal email, clean your house, or pleasure you --- I am giving you a piece of myself.

Subs cringe at "financial slavery" and tributes because its alienating.

Although zenofeller claims to be a neutral observer, I will confess to finding such profiles (which are legion) unbecoming.

[What a surprise, I know!]

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/10/2006 6:36:09 AM >

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