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RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/22/2006 6:04:15 AM

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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I told you the manner in which *I* responded. If you still want to feel slighted and take it personaly. Thats your problem. Deal with it!

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to marieToo)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/22/2006 6:25:31 AM

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Joined: 8/18/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

I"ve noticed a trait that has appeared in every dominant on this site that I've talked to beyond initial emails. They are extremely disciplined. They make a choice and stick with their decision no matter what. They can't be swayed, lulled or made to change their minds at all once they commit to a course of action. Once they make a decision that is it. Sooooo...I guess I'm just wondering, since my experience is limited, is this out of the norm or do you think that it is a common characteristic of a dominant personality?

i think it is a common characteristic, and thank goodness it is.

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/22/2006 6:32:05 AM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline

Funny, but I don't see the average Dom out there being all that diciplined in reality. I hear a lot of Doms say and read a lot of Dom's have real dicipline in their lives, protocols and paths, but what I see is not that way in the houses of over 60% of the Dom's I've met. I equate it to those who claim they can run 50 mile marathons, but don't train enough to even run five miles when the race is on. I think many see the goal they wish to achieve, but make no real effort involved in reaching that point.
In a perfect world, yes Dom's would lead by examples of dicipline and structure. In reality that's rare from what I've seen in the public scene here at best.
Suzanne

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/22/2006 6:34:07 AM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

I never assumed anything... I even asked if that is what you meant. (that is why there was a question mark)

You on the other hand clearly wrote that a submissive should poke around & find a weakness & interject their own 2 cents. If this is not what you meant then I am not the only one who gathered the impression. You'll note that at least one other person reacted to your words in the same way I did.

Never in anything I have ever said ANYWHERE have I remotely said that a submissive is not able to add to the relationship. In fact I value my partner's input & rarely do I make decisions without including her. In fact I refuse to use the word slave because I feel everyone should have a choice as to what they will do & what they won't do. Yet in the end, the decision is mine. I am responsible for what takes place in my relationship. I am the one that has to fix it if it goes wrong. How can I be accountable in the highest sense of the word if my girl is just feeling me out for a weakness... a crack as you put it.

If there was ever an advocate or a dominant sympathetic toward a submissive being treated fairly... you're talking to one. I have gone out of my way my entire life making sure that people I interact with on all levels are treated fairly. I feel as a responsible dominant that I should shoulder the grief/brunt of any bad situation & then trust that my girl is there to support me if things get tough... not worry that she will see a weak spot & take advantage of it. That is deceptive, manipulative & a down right shitty way to treat people.

Would you like to keep adding words to my statement, for yet a third time?

Or would you like me to explain what I mean?

If you seek clarification in order to have a civilized discussion about it, I would be all too happy to participate.

If you're looking for someone to scold because you're pissed off at someone who deceived you in your past....well....you're on your own in that case.

Whah Whah Whah, QUIT YOUR WHINING It's unbecoming of both of you.

Sheesh, kindergarten even in grown up peoples sites!!!

(in reply to marieToo)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/22/2006 7:18:26 AM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

I"ve noticed a trait that has appeared in every dominant on this site that I've talked to beyond initial emails. They are extremely disciplined. They make a choice and stick with their decision no matter what. They can't be swayed, lulled or made to change their minds at all once they commit to a course of action. Once they make a decision that is it. Sooooo...I guess I'm just wondering, since my experience is limited, is this out of the norm or do you think that it is a common characteristic of a dominant personality?

Greetings Aileen,

I can say that all my close friends who are Dominants or Masters (Gorean)share one thing ~ Self Disclipline! That most are ex Military is not suprise. If you will allow me to digress a tad, I was taught in Lodge when i was but a mere Neophyte, that to master the Universe, you must first Master the Five Elements. To master the Five Elements you must Master Yourself. For if you can not Master Fire with in you, yiou never Master the Fires without. If you can not Master the water within you, you will never Master the Waters without. The Five Elements of Nature exist with in each person as they manifest in nature. The Universe and its secrets lay within .. Ergo to master others you must learn to master yourself.. Disclipline and more Discliplin untill you have Self Disclipline and that every action your take and every word you utter becomes a command and a reflection of you and your mastery of self and that wghich is within your sphere of influence or interest.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/22/2006 8:04:19 AM

Posts: 198
Joined: 12/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

I"ve noticed a trait that has appeared in every dominant on this site that I've talked to beyond initial emails. They are extremely disciplined. They make a choice and stick with their decision no matter what. They can't be swayed, lulled or made to change their minds at all once they commit to a course of action. Once they make a decision that is it. Sooooo...I guess I'm just wondering, since my experience is limited, is this out of the norm or do you think that it is a common characteristic of a dominant personality?

Three magic words. Context, context, context.

For example: If a Dom says they are only looking for a monogamous LTR, and you are bugging them to have a polyamourous fling, it is not them who is being stubborn.

I am undisciplined in many areas. I turn up late to work everyday, my flat is a mess etc... But, I won't change my mind on something just because someone wants me to.

(in reply to littleone35)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/22/2006 12:35:59 PM

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Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline

Prior to making a decision, I take time to think and even have input through discussion, but yes, when I have made a decision on something, I stick with that decision. But that's me.

Leonardo

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/22/2006 1:19:07 PM

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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owned1

LOL!!!!!

watching the brides to be line up behind Tamer

Owned

having visions of women in veils with boquets in hand chasing some guy down the street while he screams like a little boy

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Owned1)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/22/2006 2:22:31 PM

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Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

I think this thread is conflating two separate traits. I don't have anywhere near as much self-discipline as I would like. Nonetheless it's very hard to change my mind on a subject. That latter trait has nothing to do with self-discipline, and everything to do with being pensive, cautious, and analytical. By the time I come to a firm position on any matter, I'll have already assimilated every piece of information I can find on the subject and given it very careful consideration. My reasoning is seldom flawed. About the only way to change my mind, therefore, is to produce new information that I didn't previously have.

This trait even works against self-discipline. Once I start to read, research and ponder, it has a tendancy to push all other priorities out of my head -- up to and including the need to eat and sleep. One of the reasons I seek a sub, I think, is my belief that having a sub will give me more self-discipline, because the sub's periodic need for instructions provides an anchor that I can use to haul myself out of that headspace and back into reality.

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/22/2006 2:26:12 PM

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

If someone is to be sure of themselves.. I would HOPE it's the Dominant!

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/22/2006 11:36:21 PM

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

Oh and not for the first time I find myself at significant odds with Focus. There is a world of diffrence between a girl who will occassionaly test a boundery or two (As I've said in other parts of these forums, that is quite natural) and one who makes a game of it and is continualy bratty and willfully disobedient. Neither get their own way but the former is worked with to help her need to test those bounderys less, the latter is kicked to the curb in short order. It isn't insecurity to not tolerate consistant bad behaviour, a girl should be working WITH you, not against you. It is a relationship NOT a contest!

Crikey, seems we're always gonna be at "significant odds" if you deduced this from my post! I haven't nor do I advocate tolerating "consistant bad behaviour" at all.... And for cryin' out loud, "contest"???

I bought into this because I thought marie's comment was meant as light-hearted and good natured but was pounced on by the "topping from the bottom" nazis that can't seem to help themselves anytime a sub dares express themself in such a manner. Lighten up the lot o ya and leave her alone; you've blown this wayyy out of proportion!

Focus.

(in reply to RavenMuse)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/23/2006 6:46:04 AM

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Joined: 8/8/2006
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I'll second this! Couldn't have said it better myself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gandalf0297

I tend to stand by my decisions as a matter of course. But I am open to changing my mind provided one can state in a clear,logical way why I should change my mind, and have the facts to back it up.Hey I am not perfect, never will be. But I'm woking on it. ;)
Gandalf

(in reply to gandalf0297)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/23/2006 9:15:36 AM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

There uis a difference between a strong minded self discliplines person and being a hard headed stubbon person.. Most folks I deal with who are self discliplined and strong minded people tend to be open to atrernatives and are also open to compromise it the siruation is one where compromises are acceptable. However one trait I do find with many friebnds are their ability to agree to disagree. I have a vivid memory of a meeting with a bloke who under other circumstances I would have enjoyed his friendship. However we were at the opposite end of the table and whilst we agreed to disagree, we both knew that ther next time we met each of us would be trying to defeat and probably kill the other.. life is so strange at time..

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to littleone35)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/23/2006 8:18:40 PM

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
Secondly, the word "manipulation". I notice that you use the word manipulation as if it's a bad word. In my world, manipulation is only bad if deceit, and mal-intent are involved. Manipulation is just a word for cause and effect as far as I see it. If I want my dominant to be proud of me, and I do something or act a certain way that will cause him to feel that way, is that manipulation? In my mind, it is. Is it wrong? No. Its inadvertant maybe, or done sometimes instinctively, but its still manipulation.. If I were to manipulate a reaction by behaving in a disingenous way, it would still be manipulation of course, but then it would be a manipulation of a dishonorable kind. I think anytime we do something to cause another person to feel or react a certain way (good or bad ) we have become successful manipulators on one level or another. Its all about whether or not we acted with honor or with deceit that shows a person's character.

This is a good example of why miscommunciation can occur so easily. It is not so much that we mis hear what is said... or even mis understand what is said..... we simply have differences in definitions of the words we use.

marie... your use of "manipulation" is not often used in that manner.

1 : to treat or operate with or as if with the hands or by mechanical means especially in a skillful manner
2 a : to manage or utilize skillfully b : to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage
3 : to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose

Now those are the norms that are associated with manipulation. The most common usage is by far is 2b and 3. both uses indicates a dishonest approach and that will most likely cause some one to have a negative view point with regards to the use of Manipulation.

However, a acceptable use is 2a.... but a much less common use of the term.

Personally, if I am to use a specific word with a definition or personal definition that is less commonly understood, I will also use an appropriate qualifier to express the definition. Mostly thou.... I would attempt to avoid the use of the word. Since, It is my opinion to communicate for the purpose of being understood and not to increase misunderstanding.

Frankly marie... you used a phrase that was ripe for miscommunication and not for increasing one's understanding. Not that I agree with the assumptions that was made by others either.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to marieToo)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/23/2006 8:47:01 PM

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Personally, if I am to use a specific word with a definition or personal definition that is less commonly understood, I will also use an appropriate qualifier to express the definition. Mostly thou.... I would attempt to avoid the use of the word. Since, It is my opinion to communicate for the purpose of being understood and not to increase misunderstanding.

KoM: I think by now you know how I regard your opinion. You could probably tell me to go fuck myself and I wouldnt disrespect you. So you know that my tone is one of complete respect. Having said that, I must correct your highlighted point above. If you carefully read the exchange, I did not use the word manipulate in my statements. I did however subsequently refer to its meaning when two other people decided to use the word to describe ME as one who would manipulate and then insinuate that manipulation is always a bad thing. They did that, because they decided for me, that thats what I meant by my "hair line crack" statement.

Frankly marie... you used a phrase that was ripe for miscommunication and not for increasing one's understanding. Not that I agree with the assumptions that was made by others either.

Franky, Sir, I used a phrase that is in perfect keeping with who I am and how I think. And I would have been more than willing to qualify its meaning to anyone who was interested enough in understanding me, rather than tearing into me. I gave ample opportunity to invite anyone to question how I meant the phrase. Both parties chose to completely ignore that. Clearly no one's agenda was to understand, but rather to scold, lecture and label me as everything from a liar to a manipulator to a brat , and whatever other shit they felt like slinging at me. You are entitled to your opinion of course and I would never expect you to not give it to me, if you so desire. Though I doubt the day will ever come where I consciously choose my words more carefully so that I may be better understood by close-minded ignorant people whose goal was clearly to condemn rather than understand.

edited for a friggin typo

< Message edited by marieToo -- 8/23/2006 8:57:54 PM >

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/23/2006 9:06:05 PM

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

Oh and not for the first time I find myself at significant odds with Focus. There is a world of diffrence between a girl who will occassionaly test a boundery or two (As I've said in other parts of these forums, that is quite natural) and one who makes a game of it and is continualy bratty and willfully disobedient. Neither get their own way but the former is worked with to help her need to test those bounderys less, the latter is kicked to the curb in short order. It isn't insecurity to not tolerate consistant bad behaviour, a girl should be working WITH you, not against you. It is a relationship NOT a contest!

Crikey, seems we're always gonna be at "significant odds" if you deduced this from my post! I haven't nor do I advocate tolerating "consistant bad behaviour" at all.... And for cryin' out loud, "contest"???

I bought into this because I thought marie's comment was meant as light-hearted and good natured but was pounced on by the "topping from the bottom" nazis that can't seem to help themselves anytime a sub dares express themself in such a manner. Lighten up the lot o ya and leave her alone; you've blown this wayyy out of proportion!

Focus.

You are correct, Focus. It was sort of a way to light-heartedly make my very obscure point. I almost prefer when no one understands my deeper meaning. Though I would have gladly shared it, if it was truly wanted. I try to keep my statements short and almost humorous, because their meanings are often more intricate than most people around here could ever fathom. And thats not their fault. Im just freaky and different and most people will never 'get' me. And thats ok. I dont expect it. But I dont expect to be attacked either.

I dont think you understand just how much your words mean to me right now. Just the fact that one person understands it makes it ok for me. Thank you for that....really...thank you.

(in reply to Focus50)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/23/2006 9:08:40 PM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
Franky, Sir, I used a phrase that is in perfect keeping with who I am and how I think. And I would have been more than willing to qualify its meaning to anyone who was interested enough in understanding me, rather than tearing into me.

I think we all use phrases and speak in a manner that is keeping with who we are.

Awhile ago... I had an exchange with Caretakr. He suddenly disappeared.... and along comes Homestead. It only took a few posts for me to suspect that it was him. After I was sure... addressed him directly as Caretakr and not Homestead. His style like yours and mine and many is rather distinctive.

Having said that... we also need to appreciate that the manner we communicate affects are abilty to be understood by others. This affect can be either good or bad. I personally didn't read to much into your orginally post on the thread.... maybe because I have read enough of your posts to see beyond a simple phrase and judge it soley on it's merits. However, we are not often listened to in that manner are we. We can't control how others wish to respond to our words. If they seek clarification... then great... we have an opportunity to increasing understanding... if not... well... all a person is going to get is a headache.

I am not being critical of your posts in this thread... I am just pointing that your specific definition of "manipulation" is out of the norm. I suspect the whole issue would of been adverted if alittle more common sense would of prevailed. Ask for clarification as well as using terms with the more common definitions increases communication. Afterall.... are we not on this board to communicate with each other and be understood and understand others. I think we all fail at this from time to time.... communicating is such work sometimes and then with some... as I am sure you are aware... it's just not worth the effort.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to marieToo)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/24/2006 5:09:47 AM

Posts: 360
Joined: 7/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill

Funny, but I don't see the average Dom out there being all that diciplined in reality. I hear a lot of Doms say and read a lot of Dom's have real dicipline in their lives, protocols and paths, but what I see is not that way in the houses of over 60% of the Dom's I've met. I equate it to those who claim they can run 50 mile marathons, but don't train enough to even run five miles when the race is on. I think many see the goal they wish to achieve, but make no real effort involved in reaching that point.
In a perfect world, yes Dom's would lead by examples of dicipline and structure. In reality that's rare from what I've seen in the public scene here at best.
Suzanne

thanks one, it is refreshing to know that my world is perfect :D and to the OP, I am italian raised and quite a hardass so I know that shred of comfort that you seek and wrap around it like a blanket until it taken away. It is a reward in my home, not something that is a constant.

(in reply to onestandingstill)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/24/2006 7:12:57 PM

Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

I"ve noticed a trait that has appeared in every dominant on this site that I've talked to beyond initial emails. They are extremely disciplined. They make a choice and stick with their decision no matter what. They can't be swayed, lulled or made to change their minds at all once they commit to a course of action. Once they make a decision that is it. Sooooo...I guess I'm just wondering, since my experience is limited, is this out of the norm or do you think that it is a common characteristic of a dominant personality?

I tend to stick with my decisions only if I know that it is a good one. There have been times that something has been pointed out to me, causing me to make a change in how I thought, or to reverse a decision. I find nothing wrong with it. No one is perfect; everyone makes bad decisions at some time in their life. Maturity and responsibility are shown when you can admit that and rectify the mistake.

_____________________________

Chris

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: The Disciplined Dominant - 8/25/2006 4:16:14 AM

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

You are correct, Focus. It was sort of a way to light-heartedly make my very obscure point. I almost prefer when no one understands my deeper meaning. Though I would have gladly shared it, if it was truly wanted. I try to keep my statements short and almost humorous, because their meanings are often more intricate than most people around here could ever fathom. And thats not their fault. Im just freaky and different and most people will never 'get' me. And thats ok. I dont expect it. But I dont expect to be attacked either.

I dont think you understand just how much your words mean to me right now. Just the fact that one person understands it makes it ok for me. Thank you for that....really...thank you.

I wouldn't swear to understanding you, I don't know you, but you're most welcome regardless. Yet I did find fond familiarity in your statement that set the others off....

I like and allow a bit of wriggle (or wiggle) room for my own sub to express (and inevitably go too far!) What can I say; much like a cat with a mouse, I like to "play with my food" - which translates into allowing a little extra rope for her to "hang" herself. And as I said, that works best with a sub who has the mischief gene within, AND a sense of humour, because I have a strong sense of often dark humour myself.

Obviously there's an indignant element who see anything like that as manipulation or the dreaded "topping from the bottom" but I see it as nothing more that D/s foreplay; even an alternate means for the girl to instigate a D/s dynamic beyond just a "stiff-shirted" formal request. It's my responsibility to set boundaries for her and I regard it as "normal" (even desirable) for my sub to occasionally test them. She soon stops "wriggling" when hauled up onto her toes by a pinch of pubic hair.... In fact, I love the contrast that type of action evokes - when she suddenly goes VERY quiet and focused!

And all this has very little to do with the OP - where did Aileen get to?

Take care Marie.

Focus.

(in reply to marieToo)

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