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RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 6:37:34 AM

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Londonswitch,

Your tenacity is incredible and I applaud your efforts and your results. I always find you a pleasure to read.

I have my own 'different' wiring and I can very much relate to the notion of having to conciously moderate anxiety levels. This is why I often do not read people who are intentionally difficult to read. If their style is more important than their message then I am perfectly happy to leave them to it.

I recently asked someone why they would think that I would go the extra mile to understand if their writing is indicative of a lack of concern about whether or not they are understood. In short, if you don't care if I understand why should I?

I too am sorry to have redirected the topic of this thread and will bow out now. I just wanted you to know that I admire your writing and now, knowing what you have put into acquiring a command of it, respect you even more.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to londonswitch)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 10:15:16 AM

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Third person speach is about (not exactly sure this is the correct pharasing) immersing a self identity into the communal identity of a slave. You are no longer viewed in context of being a "you" as an individual. But rather you are part of a "we" a slave chain and/or as a part of a M/s power exchange. The use of such terms as "this girl" encourages a withdrawing from the personal ownership of me, myself and I. Replacing that with the ownership of a Master in which you are part of him and what is his. It is believed that third person enforces this concept and makes you think about your identity as a slave with each thought and expression of your new identity. Hopes this clarifies some...

< Message edited by Sylverdawn -- 4/20/2004 10:23:09 AM >

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to londonswitch)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 10:43:33 AM

stormiKnightBEAR

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MOST Gorean Masters prefer the use of third person speech from their slaves, as this shows outwardly to other Gorean the level of training.

As for stormi's ability to switch back and forth. Master has been kind enough to allow me that ability to grow into this style of speech. stormi does work hard at it and for the most part does pretty good.

However with that said, when people show their *** by assuming anything. stormi does tend to revert back to leather training and the usage of "i", "me". It's sad but true that stormi does not possess at this time all the correct things that most believe Gorean slave/kajira should. With that said the one who matters, Master, is most pleased with HIS girl and that truly is the bottom line.

Done with this!!!!

stormi

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 11:18:26 AM

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quote:

MOST Gorean Masters prefer the use of third person speech from their slaves, as this shows outwardly to other Gorean the level of training.

I'll bite, using the books for a guideline. Would they prefer it to show the girl is unsure of her place and needs the *extra* guidelines to reinforce them? The few times a girl spoke in third person in the books, that is they only thing it was used for, and if the girl was a main character she was back to 1st person speech by the next page.

Honestly, I would also like to know where you get *most* as at least half of the dominants I know that follow Gorean beliefs do not use it.

The ones that they do all require is that their slaves be polite to dominants even (or actually especially) if they do not agree with them. I don't agree with a lot of what Inyou says or does, but I don't think I have ever been as rude towards him as you have been. You can disagree without personal name calling. Just because he does it doesn't mean you have to do the same.

I didn't see your original post as *trolling*, but I do still believe you missed my original point. Just as you and I do not agree on things that we both know to be fact in our own dealings with RL Goreans, you and others do not agree on what is cheating. Even if your dominant's wife is well aware of you, those that do not believe in poly can easily call it cheating.

I hope things go well for your and your master. But just because something is a certain way with you (or me or anyone else), doesn't make the actions gospel that anyone else must live up to.

I guess this isn't really fair to post as it means you have to not live up to your word (you said you were done with this), or not respond. I am still going to post it though, as I hope you will at least read it and think about it.

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to stormiKnightBEAR)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 11:25:57 AM

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quote:

There are several small references and I want to say its in slave girl.. but god dang dont quote me.. in which White simply means reserved and or of limited service..

I am sorry Sylver, but I don't think you are correct in this. Yes, there were slaves whos service was reserved (as is the right of the master). But the term white was virgin and nothing more. They used the term *opened*. By the same token, being a virgin slave didn't literally mean they had to only wear white. Or even that they were not destined to be pleasure slaves.

I shouldn't have said anything though, because I grew weary of the gor debate years ago. I spent many years researching it at the request of a dominant though, so I have read all of the books (tedious as that was).

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 11:38:08 AM

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People leave conformity of a Vanilla life because they do not desire to conform to whats concidered "NORMAL" So why then is there such a large amount of those here on a Alternate Lifestyle Forum and board whom want to insist that WE of a Alternate Persuasion "conform" and write and speak and express OUR selfs to Their Vanilla conformities?? I have seen no less then three Dominants here whom want to see people spell, write, speak and act in a Vanilla, Proper English or what They call Normal manner as well as so many submissives tempting to state the same to the point that it curdles ones blood. ALL OF YOU GET OVER YOUR POMPUS SELFS! I am as well as the writer of this thread of a ALTERNATE Lifestyle and way. You dont understand Us, You dont like Our style, Then dont read nor comment your ignorance on the thread simple, nor expect to CONFORM any of US ALTERNATE FOLKS to Your VANILLA WAYS.
and who the hell served pourrage and dident call Me to the dinner table any hoo? ~smiles~

(in reply to EStrict)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 1:54:09 PM

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No E... I believe you are wrong.. because I was specifically asked to research this topic... and found two quotes in the same book.. so please forgive me if it takes me several weeks get to back to you again..Ill go dig up the books and have a read through and give them too.. sometimes being right is more important than being told your wrong.. be seeing you

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 2:00:37 PM

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Third person speech is not uncommon among the leather community in which I am active and NO they arent gorean.. its used to make slaves think before they speak.. to identify to them that even speak is controlled. For some people its a part of their Protocal..it seems to me people only get bent about it when its identified as Gorean..cuz GOD knows thats all fantasy roleplay right.

Look I want to know where most of us get the guidelines we use.. we pick up the things that make sense to us.. that make us happy.. that make our dicks hard. I ve learned some things from those Goreans I know.. from Leather...From Old GUard.. From Lesbian Dyke Feminists.. From Gay Men who own Lesbian Women.. etc..etc..etc.. I do what seems resonable sensible and correct for me.. No one can tell me what my beliefs are... no one can tell me what my protocols are... and I like it that way just fine.. NOW I am done with this..be well.. oh yes I got that from a Gorean..

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 4:14:39 PM

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quote:

her contention of being his white silk slave. I do wonder if she really is a virgin, as that is the only way to be *white silk*.

Midear Sandi-

I thought that was the case too, but wasn't about to dig out 'slave girl of Gor' and look it up. Thanks for confirming it.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to EStrict)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 4:26:56 PM

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M.Sylverdawn-

At the risk of dragging the damn thing on any longer, the 'third person' selfreferance form of address was definately present in USMC bootcamp following WWI. It may go further back than that, but that's the earlist I could confirm it's useage. It is still in use today, and serves to 'alienate the subject from his own indiduality' [USMC Drill Instructors Handbook, circa 1998].

I suspect that J.Norman might have picked it up from the post WWII Leathermen.

Stay Warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 5:05:35 PM

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Obviously there are many different opinions being expressed here, and many differing opinions to them. But I feel safe in saying that all will agree with me in this opinion; printing in yellow is just wrong!

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 5:29:46 PM

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quote:

Midear Sandi-

::winks:: Sandi (with an *i*) is Utah Goddess. I am Sandy with a *y* Sir,,, the one that normally gets confused with Estring. Still, better to be confused with a blonde female than a shaved head male I suppose :)

Actually I do realize *you* aren't confusing us, just possibly causing others too...

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to topcat)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 5:42:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EStrict
(snipped) I don't agree with a lot of what Inyou says or does, but I don't think I have ever been as rude towards him as you have been. You can disagree without personal name calling. Just because he does it doesn't mean you have to do the same.

Opinions are a part of being human, as I mentioned in my now famous *troll accusation* post. Taking an "If" question as an accusation is indicative of the reader having an axe to grind. Keying off on a hypothetical is is an inward problem, sorry, and posing a hypothetical is not calling people names.

When I ask a question, or pose an "If this is true" hypothetical qualifier, I am asking the reader to think about the qualifier. As is often the case here, broad minded lifestyle board members become extremely narrow minded and seem to have difficulties with comprehension, and many tend to quickly "jump" to form their opinion.

Call me a *troll accuser* if that butters your bread the way you like it, it means little to me. I know what my intent was, and in reading my post it should be quite obvious to most. I am not surprised at the reaction stormi demonstrated (I didn't do it, you did it), as it tends to confirm the "If" qualifier I presented. The fury in her reaction was rather compelling as opposed to acknowledging the "If" qualifier did not apply... despite the unusual appearance of the original "rant post" (ie. 'searching for' description, e-mails, poor ole LSF Blues, etc), as opposed to simply the nature of the "rant" (ie. LSF Blues).

At any rate, I covered quite a lot of other points in my now famous *troll accusation* post, including the issue of appreciation that was not apparent anywhere in the "rant post". I believe there was a subsequent comment about caring so much for X number of Domme's and X number of Dom's who had the LSF Blues bigtime, which was offered to strengthen the original "rant post".

Regarding the subject of repect being tossed around this thread... (generic you)

In any organized avtivity, there are those above and below. Typically in an organized activity there are levels of repect which are simply formalities, or protocol as in a regime, that apply to all members of said regime. An example of a regimented organization is the military, officers out rank enlisted members, and any enlisted military member shows regimental respect to any officer... it's regime protocol, whether you like, love, enjoy, or hate the officer... the path you chose in not being the officer yourself is what places you in the protocol position of showing military respect to officers appointed over you... regardless of gender, race, height, width, or other petty little biases you possess within.

The BDSM lifestyle is a plethora of various regimes, with many common nucleus' points of structure, and regime. There being no single document, or manual for all BDSM lifestylers to follow, the waters become muddied quickly, expecially regarding regime protocol.

With this "melting pot" brewing, the BDSM lifestyle will ultimately involve many different types of opinion and preference. It also seems that lines which are clear to some are fuzzy to others. Are the majority of "fuzzy liners" on the Dom, or sub side of the dynamic? Based on the majority of posts and resplys seen across the board, most broad BDSM regime minded readers seem to revert to narrow "my opinion" minded types who push their personal concepts... I give respect to those who've earned it from me (by patronization, pleasing, whatever?).

Respect is measured by the individual displaying it. If they want to wear a soldiers uniform, or rank (be a lifestyler), but not be a soldier in a regime... it makes it look more like playing than being a soldier (lifestyler).

Many board members seem to have a philosophy of "If you are a Captain I like, I will salute you Sir/Maam... but if I don't like you Sir/Maam... fuck you!"

IMHO, I feel this mindset to be very unobjective, highly judgemental, totally self-centered, and indicative of a player... versus a genuine and sincere BDSM lifestyler.

quote:

I didn't see your original post as *trolling*, but I do still believe you missed my original point. (snipped)

You mean a point got missed? Imagine that!

Inyouagain

_____________________________

Careful with that axe, Eugene

(in reply to EStrict)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 5:44:20 PM

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quote:

::winks:: Sandi (with an *i*) is Utah Goddess. I am Sandy with a *y* Sir,,, the one that normally gets confused with Estring. Still, better to be confused with a blonde female than a shaved head male I suppose :)

And then there's that other sandy that i am now ignoring, the one that thinks she owns the world, and types in red.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to EStrict)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 6:20:51 PM

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Coming back to the original topic, unfortunately with the online community being as large as it is and only getting bigger every day, you are going to run into all kinds of people. Some good for you, some bad, some you wouldn't walk on the same side of the street with, and so forth.

To be concise about this, in order to find a diamond, you have to dig through a LOT of piles of dung. Stormi, your Master's wife is going to have to do that and yes, it is going to be frustrating as all hell and induce LSF, as another poster in this thread put it. We all search for those who will compliment and suit us best, and it takes as long as it takes. That's the bottom line. The trick is not to despair during the search.

As for applying personal interpretations to a broad-based standard, in the end, it just does not work well. This is why I, who am polyamorous, shrug off those who have strict and straightforward monogamous tendencies who look and speak to me like I am abnormal. Perhaps to their worldview, I am, but that does not mean that I have to accept their words as gospel.

The thing that I have found in my 8 year journey is that there are a LOT of closed-minded people within this lifestyle, and they can be as bad (if not worse) as those who life a vanilla life who sees us as a whole and deranged and depraved for the pursuit or our particular brand of happiness.

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/20/2004 8:54:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: inyouagain

Many board members seem to have a philosophy of "If you are a Captain I like, I will salute you Sir/Maam... but if I don't like you Sir/Maam... fuck you!"

IMHO, I feel this mindset to be very unobjective, highly judgemental, totally self-centered, and indicative of a player... versus a genuine and sincere BDSM lifestyler.

Are you suggesting that everyone who claims a particular role deserves to be kowtowed to?

Call me a player if that floats your boat (and frankly, I don't find it an insult at all, since in my world it means someone who's actively doing bdsm (ie. playing) as opposed to someone who does nothing more than talk about it), but I'm never going to respect people simply based on how they self-identify or the honourifics they assign to themselves.

Times like this I'm glad not to be a "sincere BDSM lifestyler". I have a LIFE, not a lifestyle. I'll take that over a one dimensional existance any day of the week.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to inyouagain)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/21/2004 1:42:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA
Are you suggesting that everyone who claims a particular role deserves to be kowtowed to?

On the contrary, I'm pointing out the trendy mindset and it's compliment being the attitude which prevails among many board members. Being dominant is not a self professed honourific anymore than being a switch or sub, it's simply a chosen role. Kowtowed? There is a difference between kowtowed and courtesy, and the mindset that courtesy must be earned is precisely what I'm speaking of. You are either courteous, or you are not... no one bestows that upon you but yourself.

As far as your LIFE and what role you claim, those are just words also to many here, as they do not see you practice what you preach... only your professed self-identity and the honourifics you've assigned to yourself.

quote:

...I'm never going to respect people simply based on how they self-identify or the honourifics they assign to themselves.

Using your own logic you can easily see why those who do not know you first hand can disrespect you as a matter of routine discourse.

Odd that your self-professed LIFE seems to have you jumping on words such as "indicative" and offering explanation as to why you are not what you perceive that someone else "called you"?

Inyouagain

_____________________________

Careful with that axe, Eugene

(in reply to SherriA)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/21/2004 3:52:29 AM

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*cackles*
It sort of dances when you look at it doesn't it.

(in reply to Estring)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/21/2004 6:54:54 AM

stormiKnightBEAR

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Thank you for your kind words and for having seen exactly what the post was TRULY about.

Your kind words are greatly appreciated. Thank You Again.

Respectfully,
stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

(in reply to Rendclaw)

RE: liars, wannabes, cheating spouses, money hunters, t... - 4/21/2004 3:16:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: inyouagain
You are either courteous, or you are not... no one bestows that upon you but yourself.
assigned to yourself.

Thanks for clarifying. That makes more sense to me than your initial comment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: inyouagain
As far as your LIFE and what role you claim, those are just words also to many here, as they do not see you practice what you preach... only your professed self-identity and the honourifics you've assigned to yourself.

Um...when have I EVER used an honourific when referring to myself here? I don't use honourifics for myself. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else? Or maybe that was a generic "you"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: inyouagain
Odd that your self-professed LIFE seems to have you jumping on words such as "indicative" and offering explanation as to why you are not what you perceive that someone else "called you"?

You're misreading me, I think. I"m not jumping at anything, but simply adding my thoughts to the thread, and I've no need to justify myself to anyone. I occasionally do because it clarifies my position, but I don't feel any need to do so otherwise. (And I didn't perceive you calling me anything in the post I responded to. )

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to inyouagain)

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