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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:38:15 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Slaves have no rights.  If you have rights, you're not a slave.

(in reply to Yourkajira)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:44:32 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		What that would say would depend on him.  If as a no limits slave, he pushed you t where you objected, he could either see it as a reason to avoid that in the future, or just think you were being difficult.  Once you set yourself up to have no limits, your owner tends to believe that is true and any you decide to set alter, for whatever reason, may not be appreciated or respected.
While thats not how *I* handle things, I do see where he might be coming from.  Though it does set up a bad dynamic, becasue you wil no longer be able to necessarily trust that he is keeping your best interests in mind if he is willing to push something that can be physicaly harmful to you just becasue he wants it.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Yourkajira)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:44:33 PM   
Yourkajira


Posts: 23
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline 		Right. That is the difference between a slave and a sub. But still, would you stop? Does not having rights mean "what you want-think-feel doesn't matter?"

< Message edited by Yourkajira -- 9/1/2006 11:45:22 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:44:45 PM   
millisande


Posts: 182
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings all: Masters, Mistresses, Switches, subs, slaves, and undecided alike.

i am about to do the unpopular thing... i'm going to that a slave does not have the right to tell his/her Master/Mistress 'no.'
One of the things that you do when you choose to become a slave is give up your rights to another.
Now, assuming(yeah, i know, ass-you-me, and all that) that you knew what you were doing when you made your screne name Yourkajira, i have a little quote for you. a couple of them actually. These are from the books of Gor, as, well, that is what your name implies.
Read, think, respond, if you wish, and are permitted to do so.

“The life of a female slave,” he said, “is a life wholly given over to love. It is not a compromised life. It is not one of those lives which is part this, and part that. It is a total way of life, a total life. The female slave seeks to give all, selflessly, knowing that she, as she is a mere slave, a rightless animal owned by her master, one who can be bought and sold at his least whim, can make no claims, that she deserves nothing, and is entitled to not the least attention or consideration. There are no bargains made with her, no arrangements.”
Mercenaries of Gor - Page 435
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The slave is not a person before Gorean law but a rightless animal.
Slave Girl of Gor - Page 151
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the eyes of Goreans, and Gorean law, the slave is an animal. She is not a person, but an animal. She has no name, saving what her master might choose to call her. She is without caste. She is without citizenship. She is simply an object, to be bartered, or bought or sold. She is simply an article of property, completely, nothing more.
Hunters of Gor - Page 148
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, my dear, you are legally an animal. In the eyes of Gorean law you are an animal. You have no name in your own right. You may be collared and leashed. You may be bought and sold, whipped, treated as the master pleases, disposed of as he sees fit. You have no rights whatsoever.Explorers of Gor - Page 316--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a few notes... Yes, i am aware that earth is not Gor. Yes, i am aware that there is no legal slavery here. No, i do not live in a world of fantasy. The thoughts presented in the above quotes, however, do make up a small bit of the Gorean philosophy as it applies to the keeping of slaves.

A further note: Just because one has a piece of property, does not mean one should abuse it. If i set my house on fire, it would cease to be a good house, now wouldn't it? Nor does any of this mean that, if you are legitimately concerned, you should not talk to your Master. After all, how can He make the best decisions reguarding His property, if He does not have all the applicable data?

Best of wishes to thee and thine,With all respect, and in hopes that this is pleasing to the Free,
bina, of Wolf.

<message edited for stupidity>


< Message edited by millisande -- 9/1/2006 11:47:35 PM >

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(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:45:06 PM   
JustaDom


Posts: 84
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Slaves have no rights.  If you have rights, you're not a slave.


Would you also make the argument that their owner has no obligations or responsibility at all in regards to their health and safety?

Joe

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:46:38 PM   
Yourkajira


Posts: 23
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaDom

Would you also make the argument that their owner has no obligations or responsibility at all in regards to their health and safety?

Joe



Isnt that the trade off? Obedience for the security of being cared for?

(in reply to JustaDom)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:49:30 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		It rightfully should be the trade off. That is where your problem lies.  Even in the case of being a "rightless animal" you still need to be kept safe. as an owner, my responsability is to keep my boy safe from harm, inflicted by myself or by another. Thats part of being an owner, in order to esstablish the trust needed for him not to have limits, he has to trust that nothing I would ever do would actually harm him.
As a close Dom friend once said  "I may hurt you, but you can trust I will never harm you.  If I were to do that, I would be less of a Master for my own inabilities."

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Yourkajira)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 12:16:39 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		If someone is putting your body or mind at serious risk, you  have the -responsibility- to say no, regardless of your orientation.

I believe that it's the properties job to let his/her Owner know what's going on. For the most part, I think that if the property communicates to his/her Owner, then the Owner gets to make the decition as to what comes next. Where I draw the line, however, is in cases of actual physicla or emotional damage.

Having anal sex without lube is -definatly- a case of physical damage. I'm sorry, but unless there are incredibly different circumstances than I'm used to, that is simply not a physically safe activity.


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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 12:40:09 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yourkajira

In certain cases.

for example, you have a slave and you are interested in anal sex. you are not interested in lube, or whatever, and when you do (she obediently complies) the girl who has such a high pain tolerence begs you stop, because it hurts too much.Now, this is a girl who has been raped (on several different occurances) in the past and you know this. Do you tell her basically that she has no right to deny you something that you want, and do it anyway, especially if you are...um...well endowed and don't take it easy. So, do you stop or tell her to shut up?


Let me begin by expressing my regrets for the pain you've suffered. Regardless if this was intended or not, your mind has been left quite unsettled and seemingly torn. I wouldn't wish this upon anyone. It isn't for me to say what is right or wrong. I sincerely believe in my heart that slavery is a path we are led to, it is not one we can travel alone. You identify yourself as such and I would gather the one you serve has taken you to this place or at least scratched the surface.

Your question has given me pause. I think we all have healthy boundaries that should not be tampered with. While this incident is most unfortunate, it provides a wonderful opportunity for you to redefine yours and come to a collective agreement as a pair. When speaking about your willingness to serve, be cognizant of the things you will not do. Can you truly say you are no limits? What if his request brought harm to another other than yourself? Would you still comply? At what point will you cease to be able to stare at the woman in the mirror and feel some measure of respect and self-esteem?

Life is reciprocal. An action causes a reaction. You are aware of the price you've paid and the feelings that have ensued because of it. I wonder if he's feeling the same as well? Is his frustration centered on your refusal to perform, or on the fact that he has brought sadness to the one he promised to cherish. While slavery can be a wonderful way of unlocking the beauty we have within, no one can reveal to you what your eyes refuse to acknowledge. I would rather know that the smile you wear comes from the heart and isn't painted on instead. I wish you luck.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 2:09:32 AM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yourkajira

In certain cases.

for example, you have a slave and you are interested in anal sex. you are not interested in lube, or whatever, and when you do (she obediently complies) the girl who has such a high pain tolerence begs you stop, because it hurts too much.Now, this is a girl who has been raped (on several different occurances) in the past and you know this. Do you tell her basically that she has no right to deny you something that you want, and do it anyway, especially if you are...um...well endowed and don't take it easy. So, do you stop or tell her to shut up?


*edit* *this is from the 'owners' perspective*

That depends on whether you *owner* want a trip to the hospital (possibly jail following) or the morgue (jail following) if things go badly and you get caught. Maybe things will go fine. Personally I play the lotto every week.

Pick your pleasure. :-)

D (owner of j).

< Message edited by Wolfie648 -- 9/2/2006 2:39:35 AM >

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Possibly.

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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 2:43:41 AM   
Yourkajira


Posts: 23
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie648


*edit* *this is from the 'owners' perspective*

That depends on whether you *owner* want a trip to the hospital (possibly jail following) or the morgue (jail following) if things go badly and you get caught. Maybe things will go fine. Personally I play the lotto every week.

Pick your pleasure. :-)

D (owner of j).



That was hilarious. It made me smile. Thank You

(in reply to Wolfie648)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 2:50:38 AM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yourkajira

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie648


*edit* *this is from the 'owners' perspective*

That depends on whether you *owner* want a trip to the hospital (possibly jail following) or the morgue (jail following) if things go badly and you get caught. Maybe things will go fine. Personally I play the lotto every week.

Pick your pleasure. :-)

D (owner of j).



That was hilarious. It made me smile. Thank You


I'm here all week (ahhh fark that I'm here all the time). Please enjoy the show. Whoooo.

D (owner of j).

_____________________________

Possibly.

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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 4:00:38 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yourkajira

i have always been  a nolimits slave. i was always of the opinion that i would never be made to do something that was harmful for me in a way that i would want to stop. i dont even have a safeword. i have never wanted to say no. but i did here.

would that say something? or would it seem just stupid, or disobedient


I am a slave. To me, the idea of having no safeword doesn't sound stupid, and I've made your assumption as well. However, I've made that assumption based on an underlying bigger assumption - that the person I've chosen to be with had a sense of right and wrong and the good judgment necessary to act in a responsible manner.

When it happens that he doesn't, and I'm put at significant physical risk - the admit to the hospital kind of risk - then I don't allow words like "slavery" to get in the way.

My first responsibility is always to myself - to maintain good health, both physical and emotional. I do what's necessary to fulfill that responsibility - whether it be talk to him, or walk. Walking is always our option - even if we like to say we have no rights other than what he gives us.

juliet

(in reply to Yourkajira)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 4:09:44 AM   
RPutnamJr


Posts: 176
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline 		I would say a slave does and does not have the right to say no.

Ultimately it is the slave's duty to follow the guidlines set down by its owner. Thus the slave can say no, so long as the slave eventually submits to its owner's wishes. In general though the slave should not be saying no. To disobey means that the slave needs to be reminded of its place in the hierarchy, and thus be punished for the disobediance.

I personally would want my slave to be able to use her mind. In having my slave be able to use her mind then I would expect her to say No at times, otherwise she is just a drone. What is affected in my opinion is the degree of punishment that she will receive by saying No. After all like I said before, saying no is a form of disobediance. Thus I would have to know more about why she is saying no in order to consider a fitting punishment.

If her reasons are good enough in MY opinion then she would either receive no punishment or less punishment. Usually its less punishment than if her reasons where not justifiable in my opinion. After all she may need reminding of her place and that is to follow, not lead.

So to answer your question if a slave has the right to say no, I would answer yes. But it is up to the owner of the slave to then determine the degree of punishment that the slave will recieve for displaying its disobediance. After all the slave should not be saying no to anything its owner is requesting it to do.

Now if the no has nothing to do with the slave's owner and any directives given to the slave by its owner, then the answer is 100% yes, the slave has the right to say no. After all the slave belongs to its owner, not everybody else.

Robert 

(in reply to Wolfie648)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 4:25:53 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		A slave has only one choice and that is Who will be her/his Master.  If you advertised yourself as having "no limits" and now find you have limits either hard or soft, then you are breaching your contract in effect.  you may want to re-examine yourself and take time to decided whether or not you really want a "no limits" dynamic. 

By the way, there is nothing wrong with having limits.  i for one have the hard limits of Nothing that could result in jail time, Nothing that could result in my or others death, Nothing that will cause me or others permanant harm.  

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Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 4:41:41 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		So do you think that if a person says no limits it means that you could also ask the slave if they'd mind if you killed them and they wouldn't have the right to say no or say hey now I'm gonna try a new game..it's called skin-you-alive doesn't it sound fun? EVERYBODY has some kind of limits, it's human to have limits be it slave or not.
My 2 cents

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 4:54:53 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		i believe everyone has limits and should have limits and i dislike when people either say they want a "no limits" slave or say they are a 'no limits' slave because it's way too vague.  Do the Masters who want "no limits" slaves assume the slave would kill or be killed for their pleasure?  That would fall under the category of 'no limits' or what if they wanted to involve non-consentual others?  Any illegal activity?  my point is that we DO all have limits and we need to examine ourselves so that we know from the onset what we will not do under any circumstance and what we are willing to be taught to do under the right circumstance, etc.  Self-reflection i think is paramount before entering into real-life relationships.   

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Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 4:55:58 AM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		They have whatever rights thier Master gives them.

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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 5:05:28 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		In a word, NO!!!!!

If she does she is breaching her slavery and should be begging release or sold to another Master.

I know there are times and especially with a newby or inexperienced master or just with a pseudo master that she needs to refuse to protect her safety but than she nedds to be out of that situation and collar.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/2/2006 5:19:26 AM   
toughbutgood


Posts: 4
Joined: 3/23/2006
Status: offline 		It is not a matter of who s pleasure the activity was for....it is a matter of not inflicting harm, physically or emotionally to a prized possession.

(in reply to Yourkajira)
Profile   Post #: 40
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