SusanofO
Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005 Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Noah quote:
ORIGINAL: Chaingang quote:
ORIGINAL: juliaoceania We ought not to believe in things that make emotional sense to us?... Nice post, Chain. Thanks. When it comes to a finding of fact, such as whether this person did this crime, holding the ideal of dispassionate logic is great. But I think we should make room even there for the sometimes positive role of emotion in attacking highly rational(istic?) challenges. Does anyone want to say that Logic itself is a condition of existence and so if there is a God he must have been subject to logical constraints when he created the world, or subject to logical constraints upon his very existence? Well fine. Then you only need ask this person what sort of turtle their Turtle of Logic is standing on the back of. Or else compliment them on a faith greater than that of Abraham and surreptitiously touch their hem for luck. Logical exploration itself conducted with modest good sense can lead us to see that logical exploration has a finite range of useful application. It isn't logical to apply the tools of logic beyond this range. Kind of like walking to the edge of the continent can show us that walking has a limited range of useful application. Real simple. I mean Aristotle believed that a menstruating woman's image would permanently discolor a mirror toward red. Spinoza though Blacks were a different species. Rove thought Libby would be a good guy to have on the team and Libby thought "Scooter" was a cool name for a world-class power-broker. I'm telling you even really smart guys fuck up royal sometimes. What about emotional God-searching? If there is a there, there as far as popular notions of God are concerned is He/She/It accessible via our emotions? Once again, every argument in favor of such a claim is exactly as non-sensical as every argument against. I'm not saying worthless. At a certain point in life you realize how very subtly worthwhile nonsense can be, some of the time, for some sorts of things. But either way we have already seen that "beyond the reach of logic" is not synonymous with "non-existent." I mean ... women exist, right? This is an interesting thread. I am glad it was posted, Chaingang. It has been fun to read. I appreciated the opportunity to be able to read responses. I really liked this, Noah. Yours is one of the best summations of this whole "area of disputation" I think I may have ever seen. (really) I loved reading all of the examples. Bingo! I feel inspired by it. **For me, reading this thread has me, for some reason, contemplatng other questions posted on the CM forum such as: "Do We Believe People Can Change?", "Attitude" and also "Being "Owned" and the fact that some believe in and practice bdsm Polyamory and some support and practice Monogamy. Decisions about such things, I believe, for most people, are not always based on logic to the exclusion of emotion (or vice-versa) - I'd lay odds on it, anyway. And, when cloudboy stated, his wife is seeing a blithe Jewish person, and it's made for an interesting dynamic, but if one of them died, what would be left? Bingo! That got me thinking as well. Is it important to know with certainty why humans exist? I don't believe that it's possible to answer, but of course life can be very enjoyable for some anyway. Someone asked the other day on a CM thread how to deal with the aspect that "technically" a Master could change into a different person than the one she commited to, possibly. If she said "yes, I am a slave" and then she has agreed to whatever he wants and a slave exists only to serve a Master's needs, and if she cannot ever say the word "No" again, to any request - how does a person settle that question in their mind? She is a smart gal, and had been in a bdsm relationship and felt mis-treated, apprently, to a degree that caused her to leave the relationship eventually. I know Dominants and Masters can also be devastated by leaving, or having someone else leave, a relationship as well. Again and again, that question "What is a slave"? comes up on these CM boards. She simply wanted to know, intellectually, how she could deal emotionally with the definition she'd heard. She was anything but intellectually imparied, and had read various definitions of the word "slave." She appeared to be trying to settle the question in her mind, outside of advice she'd already read and heard tossed around these boards, that she already knows is good advice (and is trying to take) re: Choosing a good and responsible Master. I said I thought the difference was a question of semantics, but one to definitly take seriously and never one to walk blindly into, etc., that she'd heard before, I am sure. That question, in relation ot slicing and dicing the difference technically, between a submissive and a slave, related to me in many ways, to another thread I'd read a few days before, that had meandered into an area about whether "Addiction to a person" can be similar in many ways, to a drug addiction. But the comparison, is, I think, not completely analogous. A drug has to be taken, and people voluntarily take them, sure. A person volunteers for a consensual bdsm relationship to another(s). I also persoanlly believe people can influence eachother in more pervasive and myriad ways, some almost imperceptibly, some directly and forcefully, for better or worse, more pervasively than a drug, and that relationships in general are sanctioned and are more prevalent, and have been throughput history, as I perveive it and fromm what I've read, in many societies (since the term society implies two or more people). But, I may be digressing. Anyway, I am reasoning that - The connotation of any answer for this gal doesn't have to be "bad". I can see what Rule is implying in his remarks on this thread, particularly, also. I feel (and think) the answers anyone comes to regarding such questions are going to be limited by the range of the consciousness of the person perceiving the replies, which will be limited, generally by limits of logic and emotion. I thought I foresaw some potential imagery and discussion about the term "Co-dependency" being tossed around on the thread discussing addiction to a person, and that thread is on the boards here somewhere still, and I haven't gotten back to it. But it was an interesting thread as well. Simply because I think the questions can be construed as similar to this one. Sometimes I just appreciate being able to read about, and also ask, questions about some topics. Good thread! - Susan
< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/9/2006 6:02:35 AM >
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"Hope is the thing with feathers, That perches in the soul, And sings the tune without the words, And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson
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