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"Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 8:41:23 PM

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Hello everyone-
I was just thinking about this, having looked at another thread, and didn't feel like hijacking so I thought I would post another thread asking about the subject of "breaking" a submissive or slave. Now, I am not going to even bring up anything non-consentual here, because that's not the purpose of this site, but my question is how each of you views "being broken" by a Dom/me.

I see this in a few ways- the obvious negative connotation to "break a person's spirit", and also to "break someone in", meaning to teach them and push boundaries, to make them comfortable in their role over time, which could be more for a positive.

How do you feel about this term, and what does it mean to you? Is it always a negative, or can there be a positive as well? Do any of you have a stage like this in your relationships, or has it ever happened in an experience you had, positive or negative? If so, what were some of the things that happened that caused this breaking?

I know this seems like an odd series of questions, but it's something that my Dom and I have discussed before, and seeing it here reminded me of that conversation, so I would really appreciate the feedback.

Thanks,
behindmirrors.

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 8:46:07 PM

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

How do you feel about this term, and what does it mean to you?

I do not like this term personally, and to me it means breaking down my sense of self in order to rebuild me. I do not need to be rebuilt, or broken in, I like me even if I am a little flawed

quote:

Is it always a negative, or can there be a positive as well?

I am sure for some people there are positives, personally I cannot think of any.

quote:

Do any of you have a stage like this in your relationships, or has it ever happened in an experience you had, positive or negative?

I think that unwittingly perhaps there was some of this in my first D/s relationship, and it was not a positive experience for me.

quote:

If so, what were some of the things that happened that caused this breaking?

I was not broken completely, and I would rather skip this question..

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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(in reply to behindmirrors)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 8:48:10 PM

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To me (perhaps because I have a rodeo background) it's like taming a wild filly so you can ride her without fear of being bucked off every time you try to get on top. :D There are some filly's that will only allow one person to ride them and if anyone else dares to climb into the saddle, they'll be bucked off then trampled under hoof.

For me, personally, 'breaking' wasn't necessary. I enjoy service and I want to serve Himself and be pleasing to him so when I buck, it's because he wants me to do so, not because I have a wild streak that needs to come out or because I need to exert my independence.

I like this question. :D

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to behindmirrors)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 8:48:29 PM

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Thanks for the reply, juliaoceana. I appreciate it. I agree that I prefer to be a little flawed than to be destroyed and rebuilt, though being taught what is expected of me to enhance who I am and what I can do for my Dom is more than welcome. It's a term I see brought up every once and a while, so I was curious as to the connotations it has for people here.

behindmirrors.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 8:50:30 PM

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BitaTruble-
Thanks. I am glad you enjoy the question. :)
I see a lot of merit in your point- I am very familiar with horses, so that was an excellent way to describe things. I agree with the part that it is like teaching a horse to be rideable- but to still retain their spirit is important.

behindmirrors.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 8:52:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: behindmirrors

Hello everyone-
I was just thinking about this, having looked at another thread, and didn't feel like hijacking so I thought I would post another thread asking about the subject of "breaking" a submissive or slave. Now, I am not going to even bring up anything non-consentual here, because that's not the purpose of this site, but my question is how each of you views "being broken" by a Dom/me.

I see this in a few ways- the obvious negative connotation to "break a person's spirit", and also to "break someone in", meaning to teach them and push boundaries, to make them comfortable in their role over time, which could be more for a positive.

How do you feel about this term, and what does it mean to you? Is it always a negative, or can there be a positive as well? Do any of you have a stage like this in your relationships, or has it ever happened in an experience you had, positive or negative? If so, what were some of the things that happened that caused this breaking?

I know this seems like an odd series of questions, but it's something that my Dom and I have discussed before, and seeing it here reminded me of that conversation, so I would really appreciate the feedback.

Thanks,
behindmirrors.

Hello A/all,

The term "being broken" comes from the human practice of "breaking" animals to become submissive to human control. Where I have heard this used deals specifically with horses, although I have heard some use it about dogs.

From that standpoint, a person gets a youngish colt and bring it into the paddock. The colt needs to learn that it must do what it's "master" wants it to do, but it is young and filled with self interest.

I do not mean to make these seem oppositional, the terms I will be using tend to merge over time.

In the old days, a horse was generally broken using forced riding, lunging, and other practices intended to beat it into a sense of submission. At the end of this, the horse would be broken of it's independent will and do what it's trainer wanted it to do.

Then a practice known to some as "horse whispering" came about, wherein the horses natural inclination to be submissive to an alpha was used, although in the case of people the alpha was human, as proven to the horse.

I have had this discussion before, but my approach to training a submissive tends to go with the latter. There is an element, to me, of brutality in the first method. She wants to serve me, she needs to serve me, so I will use her impulses to teach her to serve me.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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(in reply to behindmirrors)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 9:48:23 PM

Aine

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Before I even entertained the idea of BDSM, I was in a relationship that I would most definitely say involved being "broken".

It was a guy I had dated that was 2.5 years older than me from the time I was 12 to about 16. He was very intelligent. He was very calculating. Even for that age. He very regularly broke me down to build me up to where he felt I should be.

And despite much agony and mental anguish I suffered after our final breakup, a good friend of mine decided to date him regardless of the knowledge of what I went through.

In turn, he did the same to her, and I bled for her for what she went through. Although that didn't last long, but that's a whole other topic.

I don't believe in the concept of "breaking" someone. In any way. But that is just me and my personal opinion.

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 9:50:08 PM

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Reposted:
Lots of people need breaking, or at least breaking of lots of bad habits. I had to break my local partner of a LOT of things before we could become serious together.

Some doms also have a "break and remold" fetish thing going as well. The reality is that breaking someone down and bringing them up again is a huge time and energy intensive operation that few have the skill and ability to do well.

But breaking someone down and building them up is certainly possible, and in some cases beneficial.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_584608/mpage_1/key_breaking/tm.htm#584703
Breaking (2)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_374431/mpage_2/key_breaking/tm.htm#374702
slaves being broken

http://www.collarchat.com/m_282350/mpage_1/key_breaking/tm.htm#282444
breaking

http://www.collarchat.com/m_189190/mpage_3/key_breaking/tm.htm#191277
breaking stubbornness

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to behindmirrors)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 10:13:38 PM

diamonddreamlove

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I found this quite interesting after a conversation with my Dom just a little earlier. His comment had been He would not wish to lose me after having taken the trouble to break me in. Of course that is a little out of context but the reality is that we have spent enough time together that i know what He wants by a glance or just intuition. It took training and hard work. He also knows by a glance what i am needing at any given moment. Doesn't mean we don't say the words but many times words are not necessary. I can tell how much trouble i am in by His look and see if it is mock trouble or serious trouble by the twinkle or intensity of His eyes. Yep i believe i am broken in and perhaps by the horse whisperer method which i use on my own horses. Oh and sometimes i feel like a Domme with the horses because they must know i am boss so i do believe the horse analogy works for this topic very well.

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 10:26:13 PM

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From: Sacramento
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There are those women who due to beauty or charisma are used to men bending to their will. There are submissive women who fit this bill as well. Some recognize their power others are unaware of it. When they come across someone against whom that power breaks like waves against a lighthouse they often react with anger or disgust.

However, like moths to a flame they return again and again until either they destroy the flame or the flame captures them.

I despise cheesy poetics but that is how I see the process. I do not believe in coercive breaking but I have had a number of women who either because of youth or beauty were quite used to getting their own way, submitting on their own terms.

I am not doing this justice as I don't have the words, but there is a vast difference between a glorious self assured woman like LA, who if she wants to submit would simply choose to do so but instead a woman who desires someone to tame her. It is a game and some are quite used to winning.

A while back I started playing with one who was quite young and more attractive than most in the scene and she was quite used to playing little games and getting away with it. I didn't manage to break her but I did walk away, an act that stunned her.

Another, a domme, thought of me as an arrogant ass (not all wrong) and after a couple of years, I finally grabbed her and kissed her and kept her as mine for six rather glorious years.

I think I have a better way of describing it. I think most dominants break and when it is done healthily, what happens is over time the submissive realizes the dominant is NOT going to break and surrenders. Of course a lot of other things have to be going on but that is perhaps the best I can do to put it into words.

(in reply to diamonddreamlove)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 11:14:08 PM

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Being broken to me signifies chipping away at negative habits, views, experiences, ect, in order to uncover the lessons that are behind them and over all improving one's self in the process. i view this as being something we all go through all the time as just another process within self growth. Sometimes it is guided by our partners and sometimes it is something that we make a concious effort to do ourselves. Example, somebody that has a problem with shyness, knows it and does not like it, gets a job that has them continously interacting with different individuals. They are in essense breaking themselves of their shyness. Same example different twist, somebody that has a problem with shyness is thrown into situations by their partner that forces them to interact with different individuals and ultimately overcome their shyness. Either way to me this is part of "being broken" i'm not saying it's always something that we like to do or have done to us. Sometimes it can make us feel like crud, but if the end outcome is a positive change,... it's worth it isn't it?

All that being said i also know of and have experienced other meanings to it that are not so positive. The partner (or friend, family member, co-worker, aquaintance, stranger, or even one's self) who purposely chips away at your self worth in order to try controling your thoughts, emotions, or actions in a way that is not healthy. In my experience this is usually done by somebody seeking what i guess can be termed self gain. Example, The spouse that continously tells their other half that they are stupid, just so that they can feel superior when in fact it is the spouse that can't get two when adding one and one.

Particularely within the community, i do prefer to think of "being broken" in the more positive sense. Ideally that would be the only sense there was to it. Unfortunatly we don't live in an ideal world.

< Message edited by lilsky -- 10/8/2006 11:15:56 PM >

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 11:20:51 PM

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Im sorry but in my opinion there is NOO good way of breaking a person slave or not it is emotional abuse. You speak of breaking in animals to be subservient and demesticated that is different an animal is non consenting and may or may not want to be broken and there for NEED to be broken. If a person needs to be Broken in order to be submissive to a given person that shows to me that that person has no want to be a slave and there for it is non consentual a person that needs to be broken does not belong in BDSM, that is my opinion and only my opinion it is a bit strong but it is how I feel non the less.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to lilsky)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 11:43:57 PM

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In any relationship, both people change a little to accommodate each other's needs and personality. This can be seen as 'breaking' someone, or breaking them in, depending on the extent of change. I think it has to be negotiated between the people involved.

But the term 'breaking' isn't one I'd want to use, suggests destroying someone's personality.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/8/2006 11:58:04 PM

crouchingtigress

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in my experience there is a 'breaking', or a breaking down, or a 'gentling', of ego and will, when a submissive attempts this life style for the first time no matter how "naturally" submissive they are.

how hard that process is is really always up to the submissive, dominants, as crappy so beautifully said, are the light houses they are compelled to crash their wave upon, they choose to curl and crash over and over again, from a deep need inside themselves.

the dominants role, imho, is to take and use the parts of the submissive that have been given freely, for those they have earned, but not to simply take what has not been given...for that to me shows a severe lack of faith in their skills as lover, teacher and steward.

plus, it is much more intriguing as a dominant to be given a little more each time, then everything all at once, because its the journey not the destination, that makes wiitwd so wonderful and exciting.

_____________________________

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This is him

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(in reply to behindmirrors)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/9/2006 1:00:25 AM

Mavis

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i'll have to start off with the list of disclaimers.   i think there is a huge difference between breaking the Will and breaking the Spirit. i know O/others i respect much that feel differently, and that's ok.   i still like T/them. <grins>

i haven't been "broken" at the hand of an abusive inconsiderate overbearing Dom wanna be. i have been broken by a gentle caring very demanding Master. i wasn't "fixed", or beaten down to be rebuilt, there was no tearing down of my strengths, simply put -- my will was brought into alignment with my desires. my desire is to submit. But my will is to protect the status quo, the ways of the strong woman in charge of her own destiny. Even when i want to leave that woman behind and take on new challenges, she follows me, unless my will is set to ignore her.

i know it sounds like a dichotomy, one one hand, using my will to overpower that other self in me that doesn't want to submit to anyone or anything, then on the other hand, claiming my will to be broken. Partly that is because it's a Forrest vs Trees issue:   in the forrest sense, my will is broken to submission, i am already there, wanting and desiring to be surrendered. But i live among the trees, where my little willful ways dart and dash between the trees, seen now, hidden now, taunting me sometimes. Single items, small tasks, attitudes and behaviors, those are the places the will needs breaking as W/we go, like layers of an onion.

One example of "breaking" that most can understand... my "will" to do things on my own time needed to be broken, because my time management skills suck!

i will say, there was a time early on, when the corrections and disciplines were so unrelenting, it seemed i could do nothing properly out of instinct, everything required a training or adjustment, i was overwhelmed. i finally said "Please!   The line between breaking my will and breaking my spirit is RIGHT THERE. i am so close to giving up!"

Break my will all ya want, that's open, it was given over, i WANT it broken.   But get near breaking my spirit and it will pop up and defend itself! One thing, i don't think we can expect AnyDom to guess where our line is, we have to show Them, it's all part of the trust building process. But that does mean we have to know where it is ourselves.

(in reply to becca333)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/9/2006 1:12:38 AM

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There are things that need to be broken within us

There are things that need to be enhanced within us.

Understand which should be broken and which should be enhance is most important

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to behindmirrors)

RE: "Being Broken" - 10/9/2006 5:48:35 AM

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I think breaking someone and breaking someone in are two completely different things. The latter likely happens in many BDSM relationships even if the parties involved don't call it that. The former is pretty dangerous, IMO, and involves dismantling a persons sense of self and reducing them to basic, animalistic components. For myself, I wouldn't consent to being broken by someone who (a) didn't have a PhD in psychiatry and (b) didn't have a clear plan for putting me back together. Sure, it's a hot idea for many dominants to break their sub/slave as a symbol of ultimate control but the reality is that an infinitesimally small proportion of dominants actually have the know how to do this properly and have a sub/slave who comes out whole on the other side. It's one thing to fuck with my head but it's entirely another to think you can dismantle my psyche and not have there be some serious consequences. Besides, there are plenty of broken people in the scene already. Why not just hook up with one of them from the start?

(in reply to behindmirrors)

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