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RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 1:49:54 PM

happypervert

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From: Scranton, PA
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quote:

However I am quite capable and have had in the past Ds relationships and even ownership where I did not romantically love my property or trainee. I feel deep friendship and respect for him/her but I didn't love them in any romantic or sexual way.

Yup. I think that if that respect and friendship isn't there, there's not much reason to get involved with each other. It's hard enough to find someone where that level of respect and friendship develops that I think it can be worth keeping them and making the most of a worthwhile relationship even if it doesn't continue to grow into romance and love.

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Post #: 41

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 2:52:15 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

it invawiably comes down to twue, don't it?

Why, yes of course, in this place, it's all about:

real
twue
spiritual

Wheeoh
Twue
Spiwituaoh

Please make a note of this.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 42

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 2:54:00 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

There's a difference, for me, between love, romantic love and affection. Love is what I feel for anyone close to me...it's a practice of unconditional love where I accept them for who they are. I feel this is absolutely necessary in an Ms relationship. Affection is necessary for me, although there could be some argument about public displays of such. Romantic love isn't a necessity for me, although I know that, for many, it is.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 43

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 3:16:06 PM

DivaDuchess

Posts: 402
Joined: 8/17/2006
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While I personally don't believe you have to have the 'warm fuzzie' 'tree hugger' kind of squishy love thingy going on, you do have to have a higher than average level of affection just to play or scene. Without it, safe words would mean little. You have to care first. Anyone who claims a 'no strings, emotionless, no love or affection' kinda of person ... is lying, either to the Dom or to themselves.

_____________________________

Duchess

Courage is not the absence of Fear,
But rather the judgement that,
Something else is more important than Fear.

The Brave may not live forever,
But the Cautious do not live at all.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 44

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 3:21:53 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivaDuchess
While I personally don't believe you have to have the 'warm fuzzie' 'tree hugger' kind of squishy love thingy going on, you do have to have a higher than average level of affection just to play or scene. Without it, safe words would mean little. You have to care first. Anyone who claims a 'no strings, emotionless, no love or affection' kinda of person ... is lying, either to the Dom or to themselves.

Wow, anyone who depends on their emotional state of connection as a guide to how trustworthy they are with a safeword is someone I'd consider very dangerous to play with- reckless even.

If I play with someone I met a half hour ago (which I've done often), how they FEEL about me shouldn't make any difference as to whether they LISTEN to what I'm telling them about there being a problem or not.

I've had many relationships that had no real love or affection attached to them, and they worked out great for us.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DivaDuchess)

Post #: 45

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 4:22:59 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
I got him a t-shirt that says "Owned & Loved" on it.

He got both ears pierced for me.

However I am quite capable and have had in the past Ds relationships and even ownership where I did not romantically love my property or trainee. I feel deep friendship and respect for him/her but I didn't love them in any romantic or sexual way.

Awww happy anniversary!!!! I can't wait to get to 7!

Thank you.

The ear piercing was a really big deal because he's a pretty mundane looking boy and comes from a very conservative family (he isn't conservative but some of the ideas linger). He was very worried about hygiene issues (we asked a lot of questions from every where we went to look into the piercing) and he was afraid it would hurt or bleed too much -- didn't do either (he didn't even grip my hand very hard when they were done).

As his luck would have it his parents called to say they are coming by tomorrow to just "see their baby" -- should be interesting.

The earrings have become our symbol of ownership and his trust in my hold over his body. I think they look hot!

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 46

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 4:57:41 PM

gandalf0297

Posts: 148
Joined: 8/6/2006
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It would seem that love would fit in nicely with the bdsm lifestyle.Simple fact of the matter is just this: Love HURTS!

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 47

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 6:57:24 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

It is without reservation that I express a deep sense of love for my girls. Not just to them... but anyone that wants to listen lol.

Personally, I have never felt that being in love and/or expressing love to my girls has ever negatively affected my ablity to exercise my authority. Nor has it undermined their ownership. I can't speak for it affects others and frankly in this regard... I don't care. I just know what works for me and us.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 10/13/2006 6:58:06 PM >

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 48

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/14/2006 7:01:33 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I think that Aerosmith’s “Sweet Emotion” is an ode to how easy it is for certain people to manipulate strong emotional feelings in certain others in order to fulfill Mankind’s second strongest natural instinctive need, which is the need to reproduce. Others actually do fall in Love, but after being severely burned in the process of loving someone, one tends to raise the guard up significantly and to carefully inspect a new relationship intellectually rather than just fly through it on an emotional high of some kind. In my own case, I still have the capacity to love, but I have to temper that love until I can begin to trust – and that trust can be very slow in coming, especially in certain cases. I prefer to be honest about that fact, and it can be a thorny issue as some would demand that I submit to, or that I be completely blinded by love with the very first picture exchange, or with the very first long, intimate chat session.

And I need more than that, before I can begin to trust.

That being said, I believe that wonderful relationships can and do exist outside of romantic love, and that is what I seek, to start – a wonderful, caring, deep, and intimate controlling relationship without the pressure of having to falsely guarantee that romantic love will soon (or will even eventually) blossom from it. There are many examples of such relationships outside of my chosen lifestyle, such as teacher / student relationships, parent / child relationships, or even Drill Instructor / new recruit relationships. Why does MY future relationship have to fit some make-believe mold written by William Shakespeare?

It doesn’t.

And I think that many submissives / slaves out there would also benefit from going into any given relationship with their eyes wide open, as well.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 49

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/14/2006 8:13:28 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I think that Aerosmith’s “Sweet Emotion” is an ode to how easy it is for certain people to manipulate strong emotional feelings in certain others in order to fulfill Mankind’s second strongest natural instinctive need, which is the need to reproduce. Others actually do fall in Love, but after being severely burned in the process of loving someone, one tends to raise the guard up significantly and to carefully inspect a new relationship intellectually rather than just fly through it on an emotional high of some kind. In my own case, I still have the capacity to love, but I have to temper that love until I can begin to trust – and that trust can be very slow in coming, especially in certain cases. I prefer to be honest about that fact, and it can be a thorny issue as some would demand that I submit to, or that I be completely blinded by love with the very first picture exchange, or with the very first long, intimate chat session.

And I need more than that, before I can begin to trust.

That being said, I believe that wonderful relationships can and do exist outside of romantic love, and that is what I seek, to start – a wonderful, caring, deep, and intimate controlling relationship without the pressure of having to falsely guarantee that romantic love will soon (or will even eventually) blossom from it. There are many examples of such relationships outside of my chosen lifestyle, such as teacher / student relationships, parent / child relationships, or even Drill Instructor / new recruit relationships. Why does MY future relationship have to fit some make-believe mold written by William Shakespeare?

It doesn’t.

And I think that many submissives / slaves out there would also benefit from going into any given relationship with their eyes wide open, as well.

Well-stated...especially your second (third?) paragraph. Much like what I was trying to state to another earlier on this thread.

I've been burnt by that expectation of romantic love and then, after having given it, having the someone who expected it end the relationship because they could not love enough to do what they'd originally said they would do for one they loved. Doesn't mean that I won't...or DON'T...want to be in love again. But I do know...thanks to another...that I can love and be loved and not have to have the D/s or BDSM centered around being in love.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 50

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/14/2006 10:29:46 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

That being said, I believe that wonderful relationships can and do exist outside of romantic love, and that is what I seek, to start – a wonderful, caring, deep, and intimate controlling relationship without the pressure of having to falsely guarantee that romantic love will soon (or will even eventually) blossom from it. There are many examples of such relationships outside of my chosen lifestyle, such as teacher / student relationships, parent / child relationships, or even Drill Instructor / new recruit relationships. Why does MY future relationship have to fit some make-believe mold written by William Shakespeare?

Yes, they do exist. Many married people are together for those reasons well after the *romantic love* has waned, especially after many years have passed. It depends what you think *love* is. Who decides if you're loved, and how?

If you're in a wonderful ,deep, intimate, caring relationship many would see that AS being loved..........even if the word *love* is never spoken.

The things that make me *feel* loved aren't dependant on it being expressed with a word..........and the things that do that for each individual are different. I *feel* loved if I have positive attention, if I'm listened to and understood, along with a myriad of other actions that would probably not make someone else *feel* loved.

agirl

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 51

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/14/2006 10:46:37 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

The things that make me *feel* loved aren't dependant on it being expressed with a word..........and the things that do that for each individual are different. I *feel* loved if I have positive attention, if I'm listened to and understood, along with a myriad of other actions that would probably not make someone else *feel* loved.

Thank you.

_____________________________

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(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 52

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/14/2006 10:56:31 AM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear Rover, Ladies and Gentlemen;

With so many types of 'love' as it relates to people and or property; it really is extremely broad.

You do not need romantic love to get 'lucky' in the sack; you do not need romantic love to have 'love' of another human being. You may love a person but, hate what they do and one may hate a person but, love what they do. You may love someone but, they dislike you in return; there may be someone who loves you and you dislike them indeed, to the point of hate. Love comes in degrees; to which can be like the roller coaster, to which has its ups and downs. Love does funny things to people--so does hate.

I do love my whips, canes and things--they are property; love my current 'domme mobile aka toy trunk on wheels.' I do have love for my past slaves but, not so sure about romantic love as to 'marry' them.
I do love people in general --but, some of them wouldn't be a pleasure to be with on a live-in, 24-7 basis.

Love can grow, love can die, love in general terms is possible for everything and all things-- What determines what love I do have, is what I have in my keeping/possession/property and what it does to my mind's eye of what love is and or can be.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 53

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/14/2006 12:13:32 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

I was in Scotland 20 years ago and I don't know how much it's changed since then, but the women there would kill or die at the time for a chance to hook up with an American man because an American man would come bearing gifts of chocolate and roses, and beg on one knee to win their "love" - while a British man would smack a woman around, and take what he wanted.

Generally speaking, of course.

The point is, many submissives feel that if their prospective partner professes romantic love for them, then it's practically an offer to serve them, and it becomes an unspoken expectation. Of course, it's far more complicated than that, there are a million psychological games that are played off of it, it certainly doesn't fit everyone, but that can be one reason why so many Dominants are extremely reserved when it comes to verbally expressing romantic love.

[/quote]

If you're in a wonderful ,deep, intimate, caring relationship many would see that AS being loved..........even if the word *love* is never spoken.

agirl

[/quote]

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 54

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/14/2006 12:55:04 PM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

In reading some of the various active threads, I sense an inability or aversion on the part of some people to demonstrate (at least publicly) that they have actual "feelings" (love, perhaps?) for their property. As if doing so somehow negates their status as property.

Is this just whistling past the graveyard, pretending feelings don't exist?
Does the acceptance of feelings detract from the enjoyment of your ownership, or service?
Is it online posturing?
Is it genuine?
Is "love" incompatible with ownership?
Or is it something else?

I believe Love and ownership are not incongruent. What I find to oft be at the heart of trouble is the lack of understanding some may have of the two terms. Is it love or need? Is it ownership or the transient simulation of it? Foremost it is important to clearly define what is what.

The love and devotion of a loyal and well conditioned slave can go on without reciprocation, and go on unremittingly so. That a Master or Mistress may return that love is divine, but not something to be demanded. I prefer the slow and exceedingly fine wheels of mystery that bring about such affections from a keeper; love and ownership, when it is real, is much sweeter than the in vogue facade too often worn in its place.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 55

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/14/2006 2:19:03 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

i can with out doubt say that my Master loves me. Hell i dun think he'd put up with all my shit if he didnt! He's got no problems saying it either. Now granted i'm a spoiled brat (at times) and i dont always get what i want (i think thats the M/s interfering) he always does his best to give me what i need. Even if it has taken away from something else he's got in mind that he should be doing.

Oh hell, i've been feeling like crap for about 2 weeks. i'm retarded and really didnt say much to him about it. But it always comes out. Plus i'm like pmsing so it really came out. Other then the inital upset at me lashing out and letting my mouth get away with me - he took care of me. In the simplest and sweetest way. During the work week (which i never see him as he lives an hour away and is at work by like 6 am) he took me to the beach. Simply because he knew i needed him and the beach is some place i adore. Not only that, but he moved everything he needed to do this weekend to my house so he could be around for me.

Which of course i'm now completely unable to hide how i've been feeling. ::sigh:: anyone have a cure for feeling like crap, completely tired and worn out all day long for no good reason, with stomach issues and often feeling like you're going to be sick? With no cold symptoms, flue symptoms, fever or chils, or ect? huh - bastards!

yet really - i think he has a tough enough personality that it doesnt interfer with the M/s. I think he does let me get away with things at times - but he can be a real tough sob at times.

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 56

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/14/2006 2:49:12 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

Probably extending this further than you intended but hey...

I don't see love as an emotional state of being. Emotion to me is just an attachment to something outside yourself. You can feel emotionally attached to your toothbrush. (Example: "That's mine"..feelings of attachment and ownership are manifested)

Love to me is realised when you experience a connection to something or someone that dissolves "you" and "the other" away. It's a state of union. (Example: "There is no me, I, or mine in love".)

Saying that, I think in life, we cannot help but become attached to things, we can also feel union, so emotion and love can co-exist..perhaps on different levels of experiencing....

So....after sharing my understanding of emotion and love so you can see where I'm coming from when answering your questions, here goes:

In reading some of the various active threads, I sense an inability or aversion on the part of some people to demonstrate (at least publicly) that they have actual "feelings" (love, perhaps?) for their property. As if doing so somehow negates their status as property.

Is this just whistling past the graveyard, pretending feelings don't exist?
Probably, unless you have some mental health issues and can't connect with the people you're having relationships with.

Does the acceptance of feelings detract from the enjoyment of your ownership, or service?

Not necessarily, unless your emotional body hasn't matured or you consciously play with ideas of "objectification", (which kinda rocks my world as a kink actually) *grin*.

Is it online posturing?

Sometimes, sometimes not.

Is it genuine?

Sometimes, sometimes not.

Is "love" incompatible with ownership?

Yes. (see above).

Or is it something else?

Love can be present in relationship where the people involved see their fun and games in regards to ownership etc for what it is..an exploration into the dynamics of exchange when people are taking on different roles within relationship.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 57

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