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RE: Lying. - 11/13/2006 9:10:04 PM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
At 18 I didn't think so either. Your mind will change too.

Now if THIS isn't the epitome of ageist condescending rude behavior, I don't know what is!

Maybe her mind will change and maybe it won't. To suggest that it WILL, however, is extremely rude, presumptuous, egotistical, and the height of condescension. It's as bad as telling a women she WILL change her mind about wanting marriage and children when she's older.

I was collared at 18...I still think it was the right thing for me at that time in my life.

Trust me, the issues we see here are not age related- I've seen them in much older couples as well.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Lying. - 11/13/2006 9:21:29 PM

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

I was tought something I think is very importent and something i think is true something My 10th grade health teacher tought me. The way we think today is not how we are always going to think.

I dont know maybe people will say thats an opinion but it is something i really think is true!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Lying. - 11/13/2006 10:35:36 PM

Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline

No, MagiksSlave - that's not an opinion, it's a truism. Not guaranteed to be true for everyone, but pretty much true for almost everyone.

Nor does it cease at any given age - for many, the changes continue on through life.

Personally, I hope I never cease to grow, change and develop - there's always room for improvement.

Midnight Writer

_____________________________

Benevolent Dictator of TIES - Tremendously Intense Erotic Situations. If you're local to Mpls-St.Paul, MN, you may want to check us out. The web site is at http://www.ties-bdsm.org and the Munches are monthly.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Lying. - 11/13/2006 11:04:50 PM

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
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quote:

justheather: Somehow, lately, there has been a widespread adoption of the notion that "opinions can't be wrong" [snip for brevity].

Thank you, heather, and kyra. It is a logical fallacy, compounded by the "politically correct" (and of course actually incorrect) idea that it is somehow disrespectful to another to disagree with their opinion.

Of course opinions can be wrong. If they can't, then Voltaire (I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it) becomes meaningless.

Just as an aside, I also am completely fed up with people who preface incredibly cruel statements with "I'm only being honest, here". Honesty does not require cruelty. (this is not directed at anyone in the thread. Just something on my mind.)

And finally:

quote:

missturbation: Anything that cannot be proved wrong is an opinion such as i think fat men make better lovers.

This is, of course, not opinion, miss. It is incontrovertible truth. As certain as the sun will rise, in the East, and be hot, tomorrow.

E.

(And you KNOW the only reason I even posted on this thread was to reinforce that truth!)

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

RE: Lying. - 11/13/2006 11:42:05 PM

Posts: 10
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: byule

Greetings,

It seems to me you both need some training. There are Dominants that train but you need to be lucky enough to live near them. You also have to be very careful about what you want them to teach you. There are many who learn the most simplest of basics and then think they are quailified to teach others.

I would reconmend find a local Munch. You can google BDSM Munch and find pages of stuff or here are some high lights. What is a Munch?

http://www.drkdesyre.com/jaysguide.html

A list of Muches by State. http://www.darkheart.com/sceneusa.html

Attend some meetings and get to know some people. Many people have specialized skills or interests. Pick and chose what interests you and ask the individual which has that kill to show you their kink. Most are very willing to share what they have learned.

For a list of lifestyle books and books that are vanilla but come in handy check out the Ds Haven Book Store. http://www.dshaven.com/store/storefront.html

Have fun.

Ty for the Information, Exsactly What I was searching for. More than Attacks. Yes Im Young, yes shes young but instead of pretending to KNOW EVERYTHING, which I dont. I look to Peers. this is our lifestyle, how and where we want to live it. Excuse US for Liveing in Backwoods Southern Bible Belt arkansas. with very few Peers. and when asking for help, we get scolded. wow. thats something for the temper. Im not perfect nor are any other. We all know that. But I thank you again. for being honest. and the help.

_____________________________

"The Greatest Things In Life Are The Things You Cannot Have"

(in reply to byule)

RE: Lying. - 11/13/2006 11:44:18 PM

Posts: 10
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: empresschaos

Jeezus! There's an 18 year old girl on here, who is concerned about the dynamic of her relationship, is apparently at least relatively new to BDSM, and she's being made fun of? I'd rather she (and anyone else, for that matter), ask about a bruise here than rationalize abuse as kink. Not that she's being abused, but she's wondering. And her master *made* her post for punishment on here... a universally dorky thing for a master to do, but she's pretty freaking young to be flamed off the scene and left to figure shit out for herself, isn't she?

My two cents is that she and her master both probably have a lot to learn. And learning it here is cheaper than buying a dozen books.

Thanks once again another person, that can Understand.

_____________________________

"The Greatest Things In Life Are The Things You Cannot Have"

(in reply to empresschaos)

RE: Lying. - 11/13/2006 11:58:26 PM

Posts: 10
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline

My slave an I have droped this topic, for it seems, a little advice for the younger croud is so bad. I own her, We are young, and enjoy it. GET OVER IT. I did get good advice from this though from Byule on local groups. Bc this once again proved 90% of online people, dont have personal honor nor give a shit, bc they have protection of the big red (X) at the corner of the screen. now you ranted and had your fun. enjoy your life, for I will mine.

I dont puncuate, or spell worth a shit. so someone can correct it! seem your good at that.

_____________________________

"The Greatest Things In Life Are The Things You Cannot Have"

(in reply to arkansasheather)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 12:43:18 AM

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAF

My slave an I have droped this topic, for it seems, a little advice for the younger croud is so bad. I own her, We are young, and enjoy it. GET OVER IT. I did get good advice from this though from Byule on local groups. Bc this once again proved 90% of online people, dont have personal honor nor give a shit, bc they have protection of the big red (X) at the corner of the screen. now you ranted and had your fun. enjoy your life, for I will mine.

I dont puncuate, or spell worth a shit. so someone can correct it! seem your good at that.

Maturity has to do with attitude, not age. There were several posts which asked questions to gain clarification in order to be of some help, my own included. Most of those went unanswered. When it came out that there was a rather large discrepancy between the various ages you've taken ownership of, it cast doubt on 'you' and your honesty and was ironic considering the nature of the OP. I'll grant that you did attempt to clear it up with some kind of nebulous.. "I don't know" reply, but your credibility is damaged as far as I'm concerned. The above post did not help alleviate the doubt.

The paths and roads you take are your own choice but when one puts their own foot into their mouth, it does make taking the next steps a bit more difficult.

The post I make now has nothing to do with how old you are.. it has to do with how old you act which seems to be very, very young.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to MasterAF)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 3:02:40 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

This question is a joke. Lying and relationships, especially M/s relationships, are mutually exclusive. Whatever you two thought you had together, you were both wrong. Now, either you start over or you go have a nice day with someone else.

You might begin by talking to each other instead of us.

K.

This over-simplistic view of relationships and human complexity is staggering.

agirl

I don't see how it's possible to have a relationship with someone you can't trust. You'll allow that I said they need to talk. Why did she lie? Was she afraid? What was she afraid of? Whatever, lying raises issues of basic trust. I think what is "over-simplistic" is the notion that punishment constitutes dealing with the problem.

K.

If there's a pattern of lying and it's a continuous quagmire of never knowing whether the truth is being presented or a lie, I'd agree with you.

I don't happen to think that a lie*, in itself, is a guide to whether a relationship is *worthwhile*. What would matter FAR more to me, would be why the lie was told.

I trust my sprogs, yet I know they have lied to me on occasion.

People are complex and the reasons for a lie can give a huge insight into them. Creating an environment where lying isn't needed takes time and trust if someone lies out of fear, for instance. I'd be far more interested and concerned with the fears than the lie.........and I'd also be interested in any part I might have played in the fact that they felt a need to lie.

agirl

< Message edited by agirl -- 11/14/2006 3:03:30 AM >

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 3:17:56 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

I'd agree with your teacher. Unless you are a mushroom, you constantly assess what you think you know based on *more information*, sometimes just through living longer.

At 49 yrs, I am far less certain about many, many things than I was when I was younger.

agirl

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 3:30:39 AM

Posts: 249
Joined: 10/31/2006
Status: offline

i agree with you agirl, learning is a constant process - or should be, in my opinion.

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 4:47:09 AM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

Man
You folks...

Opinions CAN be proven wrong in many instances.

For instance -
You state you do not believe that people should be collared (collard) at 18... because they are too young (assumably because of a maturity issue)...

If we ran a study and demonstrated that the average length of relationships starting at 18 years of age out lasted the average age of relationships (say) starting at 22 years of age by 10 years, then this would prove that people are more ready at 18 years of age to have a relationship than they would be at 22.

That would show that the expressed opinion of "18 is too young to be collared (collard)" is incorrect and therefore "wrong".

Opinions CAN be wrong and CAN be proven that way...

The examples given previously were in order to demonstrate this fact to you folks through simplistic examples...

Sometimes the logic just escapes me... and, many others.

~J

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Heather there is a difference between fact and opinion opinions cant be wrong things that are proven facts on the other hand are not opinions!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 4:52:32 AM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
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This was the point I was making earlier -

Stating: "If someone lies to you, it is all a wash - you did not have what you thought, you might as well go looking for someone else", is 'throwing out the baby with the bathwater'

We do not even know what the lie was about (perhaps she told her dominant that she was not baking him a cake for his B-day, and then produced one).

The fact is, people tend to test the waters in a relational dynamic - the fact that he caught it out and is willing to work it through in their way (whether anyone agrees with that way, or not) is a testament to giving it a go - and, trying to make something work.

The absolutist potential of the originating statement is rather poor relational empathy from my standpoint.

And, since this is an opinion - I know it cannot be wrong!

~J

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

This question is a joke. Lying and relationships, especially M/s relationships, are mutually exclusive. Whatever you two thought you had together, you were both wrong. Now, either you start over or you go have a nice day with someone else.

You might begin by talking to each other instead of us.

K.

This over-simplistic view of relationships and human complexity is staggering.

agirl

I don't see how it's possible to have a relationship with someone you can't trust. You'll allow that I said they need to talk. Why did she lie? Was she afraid? What was she afraid of? Whatever, lying raises issues of basic trust. I think what is "over-simplistic" is the notion that punishment constitutes dealing with the problem.

K.

If there's a pattern of lying and it's a continuous quagmire of never knowing whether the truth is being presented or a lie, I'd agree with you.

I don't happen to think that a lie*, in itself, is a guide to whether a relationship is *worthwhile*. What would matter FAR more to me, would be why the lie was told.

I trust my sprogs, yet I know they have lied to me on occasion.

People are complex and the reasons for a lie can give a huge insight into them. Creating an environment where lying isn't needed takes time and trust if someone lies out of fear, for instance. I'd be far more interested and concerned with the fears than the lie.........and I'd also be interested in any part I might have played in the fact that they felt a need to lie.

agirl

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 5:25:54 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

I haven't found, in my life experience, that lying PER SE is a *terrible thing*. It's always been a situational thing......

Honestly, if I was dismissed as a *totally untrustworthy person* over the course of my life-time, for the lies I've told, I'd have given up on self-searching years ago.

I LIKE and want to be truthful......it's an ideal I can always be striving for ....but I don't delude myself into believeing that I'll never lie, or that it is an indicator of my *trustworthiness*.

I don't fear being *lied to* either....... I see it as a human response to certain situations. It's entirely dependant on the relationship I have with the other person, be that one of my offspring, a friend, an aquaintance or my Master.

agirl

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 9:08:24 AM

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub

No, MagiksSlave - that's not an opinion, it's a truism. Not guaranteed to be true for everyone, but pretty much true for almost everyone.

Nor does it cease at any given age - for many, the changes continue on through life.

Personally, I hope I never cease to grow, change and develop - there's always room for improvement.

Midnight Writer

(Smiles) My thoughts exactly

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to emdoub)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 9:41:08 AM

Posts: 5
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline

Telling a lie to you're master is a vary dumb thing in the first place. Theres no resin. If you were lying to hide something you done wrong that makes it all that much worse. Even the master need to be honest or it will not work. A so called normal relationship need both people to be up front with each other to get the relationship to work. And in a master slave relationship its all that more important. I for one find this to be one of bigger things that P me off.
So let you're master punish you as he wishes and don't do it again.

(in reply to arkansasheather)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 9:43:26 AM

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Bikaz28: Telling a lie to you're master is a vary dumb thing in the first place. Theres no resin.

Ah, wax on, wax on!

E

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Bikaz28)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 10:06:54 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

[
You have yours and I have mine. You may think what ever you want but that doesnt change how I feel... No age is not the be all and end all of things, but I feel 18 is very very young. its how *I* feel and unlike you Im not trying to get everyone to think as I do Im simply stateing my opinion if you agree fine if not thats fine too Im not saying how you feel is wrong I just dont agree. So please stop trying to tell me my opinion is wrong just because you dont agree with it!!

Magik's slave

Opinions are better served through thinking and not *feeling*. It's one thing to *feel* something and have a knee-jerk reaction to it and another to apply some rational thought to it.

I know a few 14 yr olds that have *maturity beyond their years* .........their attitude and approach to life is commendable....what they lack is experience in life itself, in terms of variety mostly, but that WILL come. There are people in their 30's and 40's, and beyond, who will never attain that.

agirl

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 4:14:54 PM

byule

Posts: 31
Joined: 11/1/2006
Status: offline

J

One thing that I have noticed in this particular forum is that you seem to want to express your thoughts and or defend your thoughts many times. Itreasting.....why? Brings up one of two things one your way or no way. Two if so why keep on defending in a community of opinionated people? Oh and by the way just letting you know not an attack just a thought or an opinion of a viewer in this community.

Byule.

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

RE: Lying. - 11/14/2006 5:22:16 PM

arkansasheather

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: empresschaos

Jeezus! There's an 18 year old girl on here, who is concerned about the dynamic of her relationship, is apparently at least relatively new to BDSM, and she's being made fun of? I'd rather she (and anyone else, for that matter), ask about a bruise here than rationalize abuse as kink. Not that she's being abused, but she's wondering. And her master *made* her post for punishment on here... a universally dorky thing for a master to do, but she's pretty freaking young to be flamed off the scene and left to figure shit out for herself, isn't she?

My two cents is that she and her master both probably have a lot to learn. And learning it here is cheaper than buying a dozen books.

Thanks for sticking up for me.

(in reply to empresschaos)

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