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Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 3:49:05 AM

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I am not a switch, but as a Bi-sexual woman I have on the occassion come under the fire of some Lesbians who basically have taken the attitude that there is no such thing as Bi and you are either straight or lesbian. Many are very critical and can even be a little nasty about it. I dont really know what their objection is, and its not something that worries me at all, but I was curious if switches ever get the same sort of attacks from Dom/mes and/or subs?
ie As a switch have you ever been criticised by either a Dom/me or sub that you should "make up your mind?"
(Disclaimer - this is not my POV, its just a question)

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RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 3:56:41 AM

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I'm not a switch buuut some people simply don't have brains that reaches the size of a peanut..I think this kind of criticism exists in every aspect and not uncommon at all, but the positive thing is that it helps you to sort out some of the ignorant and undesirable people

(in reply to SamKeithsslave)

RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 9:16:02 AM

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Quite regularly.

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RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 9:48:44 AM

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RE: the Lesbian vs Bisexual situation. There was a panel on 'Tyra" discussing that very thing. Th Lesbians are upset because there is a trend for some girls the "act bi" (just kissing) to gain attention of the males. They didn't say they should "make up their minds" but that it affected what the Lesbian community is trying to make clear that Lesbianism isn't a choice.. it's who they are. I'd have to turn this over to any actual Lesbians on here that may have seen the problem or can clarify the situation I saw.

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RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 10:20:39 AM

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Some will never understand that to choose not to choose is a choice in itself. They'd rather think you indecisive and help you to they're way of thinking. Which of course would usually be in they're best interests. heh go figure that.

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 11:15:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave

I am not a switch, but as a Bi-sexual woman I have on the occassion come under the fire of some Lesbians who basically have taken the attitude that there is no such thing as Bi and you are either straight or lesbian. Many are very critical and can even be a little nasty about it. I dont really know what their objection is, and its not something that worries me at all, but I was curious if switches ever get the same sort of attacks from Dom/mes and/or subs?
ie As a switch have you ever been criticised by either a Dom/me or sub that you should "make up your mind?"
(Disclaimer - this is not my POV, its just a question)

Yes.

And I'm bisexual too so I've been told by straight and gay/lesbian folk that I either don't exist or I am just a fence sitter.

(in reply to SamKeithsslave)

RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 2:04:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Legman1

Some will never understand that to choose not to choose is a choice in itself. They'd rather think you indecisive and help you to they're way of thinking. Which of course would usually be in they're best interests. heh go figure that.

Never said the switches are fence sitters. I just choose not to get involved with them. Why? Because I could never satisfy them. So why set myself up for failure? (shrug) Bless them and I hope all their bases are covered and they enjoy the heck out of themselves. And why would they want little old one-dimensional me anyhow? (that's a rhetorical question, btw :)

All I'd be is a dominant that would "fill their needs.. for the time being.. or session or when they feel like being submissive". I'm just not special enough :(

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RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 2:52:58 PM

nikaa

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As a switch have you ever been criticised by either a Dom/me or sub that you should "make up your mind?"

All the time. However, to deny that I am both dominant and submissive would be denying myself and why would I choose to do that?

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(in reply to SamKeithsslave)

RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 3:03:14 PM

LeeMN

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Yes, to both. And I have found it ironic that those who suddenly have visibility and are not being as actively oppressed are now becoming the oppressors.

I think it is interesting, and sad, that our society at large requires "polarity"... you are this thing or that thing, but you cant be in the middle.

Sorry, world, but it doesnt work that way. When people are really honest with themselves, its ALL shades of grey (and switchiness and bisexuality...)

Just my opinion, of course...

Lee

(in reply to SamKeithsslave)

RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 4:30:27 PM

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Some people see life in black and white...it must be one or the other. Some of use live in a more fluid environment...where we can stand in the middle of both. It’s usually easier, from what I have seen, for those who are more fluid to understand those of the other mindset than it is for the other mindset to understand fluidity.
Master Fire

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(in reply to SamKeithsslave)

RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 7:24:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Some people see life in black and white...it must be one or the other. Some of use live in a more fluid environment...where we can stand in the middle of both. It’s usually easier, from what I have seen, for those who are more fluid to understand those of the other mindset than it is for the other mindset to understand fluidity.
Master Fire

While this is true.. why is it the switch forum is mostly about "why can't I find anyone who understands me? How do I find a partner? (to me that is blatantly simple.. find another switch) and the one that baffles me the most is.. I want a Dominant or Submissive that DOESN'T switch.".

That situation alone should cause a switch to take pause and self-evaluate. It's OK for THEM..but yet they want a either/or for the partner and in the same breath present themselves as some how better because they are "fluid". (while I just used your word, Fire.. this is not directed directly at you :)- or anyone in particular. It was just a damn good word)

Anyhow, that's how I'm taking it. Forgive me if I've misinterpreted. It just seems like a miserable self-inflicted situation..

But then in this "lifestyle".. to be asked "why" is not real popular..

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RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 10:31:27 PM

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It pretty much runs the gamut. Switches can't understand what it really means to submit or to dominate because if you are a switch that automatically means that you are holding back from giving everything you have to give, you're just in it for the play on some superficial level, you have no depth of feeling, no focus, no understanding of 'real' M/s or BDSM. Yawn, yawn.. heard it all at least a thousand times.

Bisexuals are greedy and want to have their cake and eat it too as if someone with a piece of cake in front of them isn't going to dig in and eat! What the hell is the point of having cake if you can't eat it? And others called me confused. I'm not confused.. I know exactly what to do with cake!

It's rather funny, but those who attack switches and bisexuals seem to me to be very angry while I laugh, giggle and have a hell of a lot of fun, but that's probably because I'm so delusional that I just don't know I'm supposed to be unhappy with myself. ::chuckles::

If misery comes knocking at your door to keep you company, leave it there and go to the movies instead ... and take a piece of cake with ya.

Celeste

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to SamKeithsslave)

RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 10:58:44 PM

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From: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

RE: the Lesbian vs Bisexual situation. There was a panel on 'Tyra" discussing that very thing. Th Lesbians are upset because there is a trend for some girls the "act bi" (just kissing) to gain attention of the males. They didn't say they should "make up their minds" but that it affected what the Lesbian community is trying to make clear that Lesbianism isn't a choice.. it's who they are. I'd have to turn this over to any actual Lesbians on here that may have seen the problem or can clarify the situation I saw.

Ahh.. well yes I can see how lesbians would be annoyed by the play acting bi-sexuals. I guess that peeves them as much as a play acting Dom/me or sub might peeve some of the genuine Dom/mes or subs. I dont think we get "Tyra" here, unless on cable, which I dont have. I'd have liked to have seen that show.

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Happiness does not find us, we must go out and find it for ourselves.

(in reply to LotusSong)

RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/25/2006 11:02:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DigitBox
And I'm bisexual too so I've been told by straight and gay/lesbian folk that I either don't exist or I am just a fence sitter.

I hate wedgies far to much to be a fence sitter

Interesting you mention straight people too. I once sat in silence at my mums 60th birthday dinner as they all disussed how they didnt "believe in" bi-sexuals, as though we are some sort of fable. I am not out with my family, or I might have made comment.

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RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/26/2006 3:24:23 AM

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their are not straight either .....

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RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/26/2006 7:33:01 AM

Aine

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I was the "fake lesbian" in high school. Even though I never claimed to be a lesbian. Just that I was a bisexual. And this came from other girls who claimed the same as I did.

I never felt all that bothered by it. Sure, I must have felt more than just amusement back then...but honestly, it's not like those who really knew me thought any different of me.

Since figuring out that I am a switch, no one that has been around for my self-exploration (that mattered) had anything but encouragement for me. In fact, they always had much more confidence in me than I ever had in myself. Saying from very early on that I would make a wonderful sub or Mistress. Never once did they imply that I couldn't be successful at either because of being able to be both.

Those that didn't know me, those that choose to not understand that people can be many different things, without compromising their own self worth, are the ones that questioned me, my abilities. And those people...in the end really don't have bearing at all on me as a person and what I think about myself. Wait. Let me rephrase that. They did have bearing, but only to make me feel that much more sure in myself.

I see no reason to doubt one's self over the comments of someone who does not know you.

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RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/26/2006 5:28:02 PM

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While I understand LotusSong's point, the person who is right for me isn't concerned with being my end-all be-all. For me, switching is something I do because it feels good... because I enjoy it immensely, it's not something that further complicates my relationships. Being vegetarian and an environmentalist fills that role *grin* YMMV

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RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/27/2006 6:09:29 AM

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Just be who you are. What does it matter that anyone approve of or agree with who you or what you are? No two people are exactly the same and if they were, how boring is that? You have to live your life as you see fit and answer to yourself. Don't let others define who and what you are. Peace of mind and contentment come from within when people accept themselves as they really are. People who look so critically at others do so to avoid looking at themselves as they truly are and try to measure everyone by their own yardstick. Other than themselves, everyone else fails to measure up to their standards.

(in reply to Lieren)

RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/28/2006 4:26:14 AM

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I'm gonna incur the wrath of every lesbian on the thread now, but in my experience lesbian women are amongst the most hostile and unpleasant people I have ever come across. Quite why this is, I dont know - unrepresentative sample perhaps, but those I've known have generally demonstrated a whole new (to me) level of bitchiness about others who might fall into the LGBT category, and about anyone else who crosses their path too.

I've seen it, but never experienced it against me, directed at trans people, gay men, heterosexuals and especially bisexual women. It may be more a case of reaction to past experience rather than action, may be done with a first strike or fortress mentality, but honestly, the prejudice and hostility I have seen is breathtaking.

And how do I see it? Because, though I'm trans, the lesbians I have come across had no idea of my background, assumed me to be one of their number, and so had no reason to hold anything back. The biggest joke being the way they bitched about trans women, with me there! Its never to anyone's face or in their hearing though.

So to the OP - dont sweat it, honestly. If my experience is anything to go by, if you werent bi, you'd be getting it for some other reason no doubt. And just be thankful youre not a bisexual, trans switch - 'cause that would tick all the boxes!

And to all the lesbians who are going to flame me half to death who are nice people, I'm speaking from my (limited, if a dozen instances is limited), experience only, and I'm sure there must be some very nice lesbian women in the world. Just, I've never come across them. And if anyone checks, yes I'm registered as female lesbian - but thats another story.

E

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RE: Bi Vs Lesbian, Switch Vs Dom/sub? - 11/28/2006 4:43:09 AM

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I think LadyEllen that the reason you find some hostile lesbians is due to many factors. One of which is that they are told that they are "evil" or "unnatural" and the discrimination against them (and gays in general) is enough to put a person on the defensive.

I Myself am bisexual and I often hear that bi's are "disgusting" or "perverted" or that we can't make up our minds. The truth of the matter is we have made up our minds, we have decided to be bisexual as nature intended us to be and to love partners regardless of their gender.

Am I hostile or defensive? Nope not unless someone attacks Me first then I feel the gauntlet has been dropped and I most certainly will defend Myself. I am in charge of My life and I am going to live it MY way. If people don't agree with that, they can kiss My ass.

I've met some wonderful lesbian, bisexual, straight, Dom/sub/switch ladies over my lifetime and I've met some not so pleasant ones.What it boils down to is each person is an individual and different in their own way.

~Lashra

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“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to LadyEllen)

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