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RE: safe word not allowed?? - 2/18/2005 3:53:48 PM

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From: Santiago, Chile
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Sounds like a lot of hand twisting is going on, but without any good reason.

While the immediate issue has obviously passed, conflicted, you really need to ask yourself if you trust the man you are with? If you are worried that he will hurt you, then you need to tell him this!! It's obvious to us that you are worried, but unless you say something to him about it, he won't know! It isn't just a good idea, but an obligation on your part, to tell him when you are afraid, hurt, or scared! If, after telling him, he doesn't address your fears or discuss the issue with you, then you have a genuine reason to consider leaving the relationshiop.

Safe words are not fool proof, and some people don't use them - I prefer to have my girl just say it's too much, and I back off.

Stephan

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to LadyJill)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 2/18/2005 4:07:37 PM

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Joined: 10/31/2004
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quote:

I hope that you also discussed with him the fact that it was your CHILDREN, for whom you are legally responsible for, that you did not have your assignment done

i have discussed this with Him, as i (like all mothers) put their children before anyone else.
He has since told me that it was something He said but didnt mean literally, and knew that it would evoke a reaction from me. He wanted to see if i was able to control the reaction. i failed. However we were able to discuss that more in depth, and i did say that anyone with a child would have reacted in the same fashion.

quote:

It isn't as though you blew the assignment off, it isn't as though you procrastinated to hang out with your best girlfriend and get drunk ... it was put off for a responsibility that, as a Dominant, he should be able to see and understand and accept that you have and always will have.

You are absolutely right. i know my responsibilities, as a parent, and also my responsibilities as a sub, however i do not wish those two worlds to collide, as the consequences is something i could not bare.
He understands this, and in our time together, my children have never been an issue. He treats them with love and respect

i have faith in Him and believe that He has listened to my concerns.

i thank you all again for your support and time.

n

(in reply to LadyJill)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 2/18/2005 4:17:18 PM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

i fear His anger, and that was when i used the safe word for the first/last time (it was early on in the relationship.)
i thought we had worked through that together about punishment and play if He was angry for any reason, just not neccessarily at me.

it has un-nerved me that He said it. He could mean it? He could be messing with my head? Perhaps He said it to upset me? Maybe He wants me to think about what was said? i dont know. But it has definately filled me with nervous anticipation!

The object here is not fear, it's trust. There's a big differance between a little bit of anxiety and fear. Trust is a process; if you've taken the time to learn someone, to the point that you exchange your power through the mechanism of Trust, then geniune fear should really not even be an issue.

None of us here can determine if your Master means what he says or not. Only you can do that. I would think that if you are his collared submissive, he would be open to communicating with you and allow you to ask questions. The only way you can really effectively know what he's thinking or feeling is to address him about it.

We walk a fine line in WIIWD. If you don't trust that he can work the S&M into your relationship without taking his anger out on you, I would implore you to open the discussion and expect him to be able to talk about it.

This is, afterall, a power exchange.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to conflicted)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 2/27/2005 4:42:37 AM

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Personally I would NEVER punish or even play with a sub if I was in anyway angry or in anyway my mind was not clear. Also if a Dom/me really want to punish there sub, a good Dom/me can punish without even laying a finger on the sub.

TonyBFG.

(in reply to conflicted)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/4/2005 12:32:12 AM

FelinePersuasion

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Joined: 11/20/2004
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Breaking the paddle cause you're pissed and hitting her is abuse. Hell it's abuse to punish or do anything in anger broke something or not.

(in reply to TonyBFG)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/5/2005 11:30:05 AM

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Joined: 2/15/2005
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My dear just following the Mantra of Safe Sane Consensual this situation does not sound good. For Sir to punish you while angry and with such force so as to break the paddle??? and all because your children come first???? i am sorry, I know I do not kow either of you, but he does not sound like a true Dom to me. He does not seem to accept responsibility for your safety, and to insist he comes before your children is not sane.

(in reply to LadyJill)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/5/2005 11:47:05 AM

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From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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Your children come first, no matter what. You are their primary caretaker and they are legally and ethically your responsibility. The fact that he was angry and carried through the threat of punishment means he felt that he truly should come first, no matter how he backpedaled after you showed that you weren't going to bend on the issue. It is up to you to decide if you're willing to be with a man who would punish you for taking care of your responsibilities to your dependant children.

As to the paddle breaking.. it happens. What bothers me about it is the "amount of force" statement, which means you felt a lot of force was being used. That is unacceptable. You do not tell a submissive that a safeword is off limits and begin to abuse them. And yes, you were being set up for abuse. If the paddle hadn't broken, I agree with quietkitten about you getting the beating of your life. Anyone who punishes in anger is dangerous. Anyone who ignores a safeword is dangerous. By taking away your safeword, he made the act non consensual, since he'd told you he'd continue no matter if you wanted it to stop or not. If I were you, based on these things, anger punishing/abuse and putting himself above your responsibilities to your dependant children, I'd seek another Dom. You're the rare one, not him.. and it sounds like you're as serious as you're able to be about your submission. There are a lot of good Dominants out there.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to conflicted)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/7/2005 1:06:29 AM

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Joined: 10/31/2004
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quote:

You're the rare one, not him..

Thank-You BeachMystress for putting this in writing, just seeing it has given me a feeling of.........well i cant really describe it, lots of emotions, lots of feelings....but they are good ones. Thank - You all for your imput, it is much appreciated.

n

(in reply to BeachMystress)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/7/2005 6:35:13 AM

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Joined: 1/24/2005
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am considered by some to be extreme and have not used safeword in years? I do have a safeword and it is not ignored. if i were to use for nothing would no longer be in service which is not a problem. for a dominant to forbid use of safeword means he/she is dangerous. for a dominant to punish sub/slave for caring for children means he/she is uncaring. the combination of the two makes the dominant very dangerous and that dominant should not have anyone to service them. If safeword is used in groups i am with and Dominant does not stop the Dominant is stopped and no longer in group.

this really upsets me as he sounds dangerous not only to you but to all including your children

respectfully
8

(in reply to conflicted)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/8/2005 6:14:53 PM

tanna

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Joined: 6/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: conflicted

Thank-you so much for your replies.

quote:

Please clarify this for me, what did you say that was hurtful to your Master? Is that why you are being punished?

He was annoyed that i hadnt completed writing my lines (another punishment) but i told Him that i was unable because my children were present. He replied that He comes first...to which i replied in quite a catty fashion, that i dont come first to Him all the time either, sometimes it seems..if ever

I calmly read through the previous posts and nodded agreeably.. When I came to this one I said "Holy crap!" outloud..

MY children come first, and any Dominant (or any man) who can't respect that can just hit the road. In addition, if it is something that children shouldn't see, you shouldn't be doing anything for him that would negatively effect your children, or your relationship with your children.

It also sounds like there are other issues that are definitely needing addressed here..

tanna

(in reply to conflicted)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/8/2005 7:52:12 PM

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Any Master who will not respect a safe word is not a master but a fucking idiot. I suggest you dump that lump of shit...Mark

(in reply to LadyJill)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/9/2005 8:24:24 AM

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A few things- all relating to punishment, not this specific example or whether punishment was or was not merited.

1) People can punish while angry and not be abusive or bad or wrong.

2) Breaking things is not a measure of how hard something was being used or whether it was being used "too hard."

3) Some people use safewords as a way to get out of what they don't want, NOT a sign that something is "wrong." Some people agree not to use safewords during punishment and other times for this reason.

Now that I have that out of the way...the backpedaling excuses for his behavior were classic, it's YOUR fault completely right?

This is one of the many reasons I think safewords are pretty much crap unless you're doing a non-consensual consent scene like rape play or some such. If somethings wrong, just SAY its wrong and deal with it. No need to mess around with when you can and can't say something or when they can and can't stop. Safewords are so abused on both sides of the fence that, seriously, just say what's going on.

We only get one side of the story here but evidence is on the side that this guy doesn't know how to communicate well and reacts very destructively when faced with things he can't deal with.

(in reply to Histeacup)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/9/2005 8:29:51 AM

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PS here- there's obviously issues between you both. Your catty answer in response to his statement, the fact that you were already HAVING a punishment by writing lines pretty much says you aren't secure in service to him and he doesn't know how to handle working things so you both can become secure. Work on that, don't obsess about this one instance.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/9/2005 10:44:20 AM

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When I give punishments I offer an 'opt out and walk away forever' option before I mete out the punishment. I also make it clear that a safeword during punishment is not an option. Take the punishment or walk away forever are the options, period.

I do not administer punishment while angry. I may tell you I am angry and therefore the punishment will have to wait until I am not, but I do not administer punishment while angry. For the record, the fact that punishment is even necessary usually pisses me off.

But then, I also differentiate between punishment and correction. Correction is assisting you in remembering what our goals are and our commitments to achieving them. Punishment is retribution for blatant disregard for rules. If I have to punish you I'm wondering "why am I bothering?"

So, is he going to punish you or is he going to correct you?

My knee-jerk reaction is to say "he's not honored a safeword before, why would you believe he would after telling you he won't?" but I haven't a clue what the circumstances were. Are you the sort to use a safeword simply because you are disconcerted or do you reserve the use of a safeword for those moments when your well being is at risk and your dominant doesn't know it? If you're the former then I might suggest reassessing with your dominant what the proper use of a safeword is.

Using a safeword is not a politically correct way to direct your dominant, it's a way to communicate that you are either done with the situation and relationship all together or that you are in harm's way and the dominant may not realize it. As Topcat would say "Protect the Property."

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to conflicted)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/9/2005 11:25:41 AM

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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

When I give punishments I offer an 'opt out and walk away forever' option before I mete out the punishment. I also make it clear that a safeword during punishment is not an option. Take the punishment or walk away forever are the options, period.

I like this technique. If you don't mind, I'll be using it from now on ;) I can see how it will avoid a lot of drama.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz
I do not administer punishment while angry. I may tell you I am angry and therefore the punishment will have to wait until I am not, but I do not administer punishment while angry. For the record, the fact that punishment is even necessary usually pisses me off.

Exactly. When I'm angry, submissives, or anyone else in the world that pisses me off, gets sent away.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz
But then, I also differentiate between punishment and correction. Correction is assisting you in remembering what our goals are and our commitments to achieving them. Punishment is retribution for blatant disregard for rules. If I have to punish you I'm wondering "why am I bothering?"

Very important distinction! I actually enjoy giving a correction. I hate having to resort to punishment.

__________________

An aside, and this is purely my opinion based on observation and I might be totally off the mark, but I think it’s important to give you my perspective. The following goes to defining a person's patterns by looking at the sum of their actions.

Your Dom seems impulsive and he also seems to lack self-control. To crack a paddle over your ass to the point that it breaks, with no warm up, out of anger...

So that he says that he premeditated a scenario to test your reaction seems like a nice little convenient way for him to talk himself out of looking like a big selfish baby when he claimed that you should put him before your children.

One of my subs has a teenage daughter. All of them have very important careers. I have never, ever pulled the “I come before your career boy” line on them. That would be so absolutely ridiculous of me. However, I know that they do make choices that put me first whenever they can and I appreciate when it is given to me more then when I demand it.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/9/2005 1:38:15 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

When I give punishments I offer an 'opt out and walk away forever' option before I mete out the punishment. I also make it clear that a safeword during punishment is not an option. Take the punishment or walk away forever are the options, period.

I like this technique. If you don't mind, I'll be using it from now on ;) I can see how it will avoid a lot of drama.

Feel free! It's worked quite well for me for a long time. It is the quintessential drama-reducer as it quickly separates the wheat from the chaffe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Your Dom seems impulsive and he also seems to lack self-control. To crack a paddle over your ass to the point that it breaks, with no warm up, out of anger...

Purely by way of playing devil's advocate - I've seen paddles split along grains or where they may have been glued without undue force being used.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/9/2005 1:50:46 PM

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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz
When I give punishments I offer an 'opt out and walk away forever' option before I mete out the punishment. I also make it clear that a safeword during punishment is not an option. Take the punishment or walk away forever are the options, period.

I like this technique. If you don't mind, I'll be using it from now on ;) I can see how it will avoid a lot of drama.

Feel free! It's worked quite well for me for a long time. It is the quintessential drama-reducer as it quickly separates the wheat from the chaffe.

Merci Madame!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Your Dom seems impulsive and he also seems to lack self-control. To crack a paddle over your ass to the point that it breaks, with no warm up, out of anger...

Purely by way of playing devil's advocate - I've seen paddles split along grains or where they may have been glued without undue force being used.

Oh yes. I agree. Anything out of context could be interpreted in many ways. I was looking at the picture. As I said, I might be way off (and to be honest, I hope I am), but that was my impression.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/12/2005 5:05:16 AM

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Joined: 10/31/2004
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quote:

Are you the sort to use a safeword simply because you are disconcerted or do you reserve the use of a safeword for those moments when your well being is at risk and your dominant doesn't know it?

quote:

Are you the sort to use a safeword simply because you are disconcerted or do you reserve the use of a safeword for those moments when your well being is at risk and your dominant doesn't know it?

i have used it once....and believe me, ive had many a punishment since then. i am not one to use it flippantly or to suit me...... but it is reassuring to know that should i really "need" to use it, i can.

quote:

So, is he going to punish you or is he going to correct you?

Usually both.

quote:

Using a safeword is not a politically correct way to direct your dominant, it's a way to communicate that you are either done with the situation and relationship all together or that you are in harm's way and the dominant may not realize it.

i dont direct my Master in any what-so-ever....i wouldnt dare, and if i ever felt the "need" to use it again i would, but it would be for the reason you stated in the latter part of the above paragraph.

quote:

Your Dom seems impulsive and he also seems to lack self-control. To crack a paddle over your ass to the point that it breaks, with no warm up, out of anger...

This has been a bit of an issue for me, and it has been discussed thoroughly.

quote:

So that he says that he premeditated a scenario to test your reaction seems like a nice little convenient way for him to talk himself out of looking like a big selfish baby when he claimed that you should put him before your children.

i tend to agree with you, and hope i dont come across as being disrespectful for doing so.

quote:

I've seen paddles split along grains or where they may have been glued without undue force being used.

hmm...i wish it was one of those paddles! It was a leather one with a wooden handle, secured with heavy pins, the pins went everywhere....the leather went flying, and part of the handle split!!

Just as a bit of an add-on :
my Master and i have had many lengthy discussions about the issue that prompted me to start the thread, the broken paddle incident and a few other minor things. Together we are working through them all, and the lines of communication are flourishing

W/we are still relatively new, and all imput, guidance and advice is appreciated.
Thanks again

n

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: safe word not allowed?? - 3/12/2005 7:05:47 AM

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Hi conflicted,

Like most of the others here, your posts have me worried. What scares me is not the denial of safeword, but the reason for the punishments.

So I have some questions I hope you'll answer (You sure don't have to reply to me, but maybe you can think about them?). Is your relationship all about punishment? Are you masochistic? Or you service-oriented?

I get the feeling (based on just this thread, and I could be very wrong) that you and your partner's needs are very different. It appears that the only way he can get what HE needs is to manufacture scenarios that require your punishment. Could this possibly be true? If it's true, you are in psychological danger here. Not because he's wrong, but because you and your partner have different needs. No amount of communication will help. He's being dishonest, probably with himself. And you are being victimized.

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]

(in reply to conflicted)

RE: safe word not allowed?? WOW!!! - 3/15/2005 7:17:43 AM

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Joined: 2/7/2005
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Conflicted I read this Post and have gone the gambit from anger to sadness to wanting to give you a dope slap! If your Dom truly cares for you he will never harm you emotionally, he will put his massive ego aside when your children need Mommy understanding that Family is much more important than D/s and furthmore he should be in control of himself at all times and never be angry when he trains you. There was a saying we had in the Army "How can you hope to control other people if you can't control yourself?"

I am an experienced Dom and I am also a Single Parent and know the delicate balance needed to juggle both...... but my kids will always be more important than getting into some submissive pu**y..... and any sub/slave I see must understand this completely. If your Dom see's your children and your love for your children as a hinderance to HIS needs then he is clueless and does not deserve you.

(in reply to January)

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