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RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 1:57:23 AM

catchmeifyoucan2

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: offline

Well...coming back to the original thread.... :-)
I began my interest in bdsm (in terms of actually realizing what it was) when I was about 13/14. I list myself as a submissive because that is what I prefer, but I am able to switch and have been dominant in the past. I am 21 years old now and when I was 18 I wouldn't have appreciated being discounted because of my age. Although, I sometimes think, when I see a dom who is 18 and bragging about his amazing domming ability, that he is full of hot air - it is important to remember, that age is just a number (when abiding to legal limits ;-)).
Plenty of people take on adult roles in their lives when they are very young because of life circumstances, or are just exceptionally mature/advanced in one way or another. There is no reason to think that because someone is younger than you that they will not be able to perform adequately. As LA discusses, its much better for everyone to try and be helpful and guide, rather than be critical of people because of age. We all know that are interests started, if not at birth, then at least by puberty. Now a days, its even easier for teenagers to have access to information and each other in regards to bdsm. In the 1950's...there weren't many bdsm sites available for exploration, but I have been checking things out since i was 13, and experimenting since i was 15. And although I have not had a huge number of partner, sub or dom, I do feel like I am experienced, and what is left out there to learn, I am eager to discover. An 18 year old can be a complete novice or a real 'master'....but they choose to call themselve so because that is how they identify. In speaking with them, one can find out how true their statements are, but until you get to know them, there is no reason to make any assumptions whatsoever based on their age.
So, perhaps I didn't answer the main thread exactly - but I tried. Enjoy the discussion.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 3:08:59 AM

Posts: 20
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Ok... It's officially time for a Woman's Opinion. Whether ya like it or not...:)
Coming from someone who found BDSM at an early age..probably 12/13.. I can say that I have experienced both sides of it..including being a Gorean kajira. My experiences eventually led Me to GynoSupremacy. (Flamers...dont bother) It's My belief that One has to experience life..on both sides. It may not mean submitting to a collar, or owning 500 slaves.. But to experience it, and learn along the way..is the best way to go. It is My belief that Dominance is something One is born with...it can be suppressed, beaten down, raped into submission, and nearly killed, but it will always..always pop it's head back out. The key is to accept it, and learn to express it in a positive way. I have one collared slave and quite a few online admirers and pets.. Embracing the Inner Domme in a society where Females are often seen as better off "barefoot and pregnant" wasnt hard for Me.. I dont hate men, I dont think they are all better off dead, and I am not a Lesbian...LOL theres a LONNNG story behind how I came to that conclusion...In any case, My point is.. Dominance can and will assert itself...at any age..whether it's tying up kids while playing house and spanking them..or torturing a scantily clad form with candle wax..if it's there...it's there...and it doesnt go away...
My two cents.
GM~~

(in reply to catchmeifyoucan2)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 3:55:21 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

No, I'm not stalking you. But like many regulars to these boards, we read and comment upon what interests us. Simply put, the more you write (and you seem to write copious amounts) the more that requires correction. Obviously leather history is not one of the subjects you teach as a trainer.

Here's the danger with getting your factual information from unverified online sources... it's often wrong. That's one reason why we often ask for references from people.... it's easy for people to claim anything they want online, and it's kinda helpful to separate fact from fiction. And in the case of your understanding of leather history, it is proveably false.

The terms "Master" and "slave" did not originate with Gor and bleed over to the BDSM community. Those terms were in usage before the first Gor book was published in 1967 and date to the predominantly gay male S/M leather culture often referred to as "Old Guard" (generally speaking late '40s to early '70s).

Nor did the use of "scene names" originate with the popularity of this Gorean custom, as your post implied. Scene names were popularized in order to maintain anonymity in an era when just being gay in public was often a crime, when S/M enthusiasts placed personals ads in magazines, and when people wished to remain anonymous even when mingling amongst themselves (as is still often the case today). Scene names were not just some cute aberration without purpose.

You're located in Illinois, so you might want to take advantage of the fact that you're relatively local to the Leather Archives & Museum in Chicago. It's an authentic source of leather history. I can also suggest a list of legitimate lifestyle historians and authors if you'd like to further your education.

As for your claim that the use of references is something new and distasteful, that is also factually false. The use of references dates back to the 1950's and was actually quite a bit more common in days past. Rather than frightening people, particularly newer folks, references are a source of information to those that wish to confirm what they are told. People often find it helpful to know what someone's reputation is in their local community and to either confirm or deny their active involvement, demonstrated expertise, and factual history.

I'm sure this post will elicit yet another emotional outburst on your part, which I will read with delight upon my return in several days.

John

< Message edited by Rover -- 12/4/2006 4:14:09 AM >

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Slavetrainer2007)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 4:28:01 AM

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Joined: 5/20/2005
Status: offline

He also stated that it was his opinion, he did not state it as a fact. Maybe you should look at the post again, and note when someone says it is their opinion. Opinions and facts are two completely separate things.

As to the OP:
yes i am a women, and a sub at that but being 19 i have spoken to several Dom's/Masters in the 18- early 20's age. Honestly in my experience it's about 50/50 as to truly interested in the lifestyle and just wanting an easy lay. But I have observed that in all age rangers. Some really know what they are doing and what they want, and have their stuff together. I think it's just the culture now days, we are exposed to things at a much younger age then generations before us. It only seems natural that it would flow this way and there would be younger Dom's/Masters around.

< Message edited by poeticslave -- 12/4/2006 4:30:51 AM >

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 4:40:54 AM

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

~~FR to the OP ~~

Have you ever considered the fact that maybe these young folk grew up in such an environment and that this may be what gives them the idea that they know something about it?

No one thinks twice when someone at that same young age lays claim to experience at being submissive; yet we question those who lay the same claim to being Dominant/Master.

/shrug

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to poeticslave)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 4:41:39 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: poeticslave

He also stated that it was his opinion, he did not state it as a fact. Maybe you should look at the post again, and note when someone says it is their opinion. Opinions and facts are two completely separate things.

You're absolutely right!! Good for you to catch that... history is documented fact, while opinion is.... well... opinion.

Passing one's opinion off as history is quite inappropriate, particularly when it has been thoroughly documented. He's welcome to express his opinion of course, and I'm welcome to correct the factual record for those seeking factual history.

Works for me.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to poeticslave)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 4:55:41 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

~~FR to the OP ~~

Have you ever considered the fact that maybe these young folk grew up in such an environment and that this may be what gives them the idea that they know something about it?

No one thinks twice when someone at that same young age lays claim to experience at being submissive; yet we question those who lay the same claim to being Dominant/Master.

/shrug

Bolding mine.

Excellent point Kalira. I have had fantasies of submission since I was a young child (but more about my slightly fucked childhood later) and had rape fantasies starting the age of 11. I have known and understood myself to be a submissive since I was 18 and no one has ever questioned me. However, I get plenty of e-mails telling me that my dominant is too young to a be master and that I'm a fool. He's 22 and he's a lot newer to this then I am. But considering everything he does to me on a regular basis, his punishments and his rewards (not even going to go into the scenes we play out), I know he is a dominant. He may be inexperienced but that doesn't make him any less a dominant.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Kalira)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 4:56:34 AM

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: poeticslave

He also stated that it was his opinion, he did not state it as a fact. Maybe you should look at the post again, and note when someone says it is their opinion. Opinions and facts are two completely separate things.

You're absolutely right!! Good for you to catch that... history is documented fact, while opinion is.... well... opinion.

Passing one's opinion off as history is quite inappropriate, particularly when it has been thoroughly documented. He's welcome to express his opinion of course, and I'm welcome to correct the factual record for those seeking factual history.

Works for me.

John

That was my point. I don't think he was, he clearly stated, more then once in fact, that it was just his opinion.

As for you, while it does sound like you know what your talking about, I consider it opinion until i am given resources that check out that show you are right, or I am interested enough in the given topic to do it myself. No offense meant to you, that is just how I am. I don't tend to just take people's word for it.

I was simply pointing out that you shouldn't jump up demanding resources when they clearly stated it was only their opinion, and not only said that but gave where they came to that opinion.

Nothing wrong with wanting to educate people, but there are more polite ways to do so.

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 5:13:24 AM

mons

Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

greetings

when i was 21 i had the mind of 12 i was dumb i had not ideal where babies came from nor what anyone would have and sex i did not understand i growup in home where older sister told me " they (boys) want only one thing" but my sweet sister forgot to tell me what it was they had wanted so i had my legs lock for years scare of what they wanted and i sure as hell did not let them near me to have them get it ( whatever it was) and i am not that much older but wow was i scare i had gain wieght and i thought i was pregant and had not be near anyone i was almost ready to kill myself for tthe simlpy fear of the unknown so as for the ones who are dominant and are in their twenties i think they can well be as dominant as anyone i would but they still need to learn but if i can think at 15 i was pregant and no one tocuh a hair on me who are we to say they can not be what they are. now this cause me so much shyness i am still shy but being a dominant woman i take the lead and will do it well. i am shy of dominant men who know why but i feel shyness coming even if i write a short post on the masters fourm. if only people know what they did when they tell someone something like close you legs i still have them lol close as a lady sitting oh ok now does anyone see the very well written note i am learning from a friend she is a best friend and i am having a time learning to write again. ok young twenties doms i wish you luck

with warm smiles
mons

(in reply to poeticslave)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 5:31:29 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: poeticslave

Nothing wrong with wanting to educate people, but there are more polite ways to do so.

Polite by whose standards? Yours? Mine? His? Perhaps you've missed some of the previous exchanges. By my standards I have been exceedingly polite, far more so than is deserving.

As for references for the usage of "Master" and "slave" in an historical context, I might suggest the Leather Archives & Museum along with the cumulative works of Joseph Bean, Gayle Rubin, Guy Baldwin, Jack Rinella, Jay Wiseman and quite a few other recognized historians/authors.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to poeticslave)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 5:47:53 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: poeticslave

Nothing wrong with wanting to educate people, but there are more polite ways to do so.

Polite by whose standards? Yours? Mine? His? Perhaps you've missed some of the previous exchanges. By my standards I have been exceedingly polite, far more so than is deserving.

As for references for the usage of "Master" and "slave" in an historical context, I might suggest the Leather Archives & Museum along with the cumulative works of Joseph Bean, Gayle Rubin, Guy Baldwin, Jack Rinella, Jay Wiseman and quite a few other recognized historians/authors.

John

I've been gone the past few days - Have I missed some drama?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 5:49:56 AM

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

I've been gone the past few days - Have I missed some drama?

Not really. Just a self-proclaimed slave trainer with over 100 slaves trained to his credit, sprouting off at the mouth.

The usual BS

/nods

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 5:54:08 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

quote:

I've been gone the past few days - Have I missed some drama?

Not really. Just a self-proclaimed slave trainer with over 100 slaves trained to his credit, sprouting off at the mouth.

The usual BS

/nods

Damn. How the hell would you have time unless that is your full-time job? How would you list that on your taxes anyway?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Kalira)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 5:58:02 AM

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

Damn. How the hell would you have time unless that is your full-time job? How would you list that on your taxes anyway?

Maybe he's a 'super trainer'? You know, like a super hero or something?

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 6:14:46 AM

Posts: 3
Joined: 4/29/2006
Status: offline

I have been a dominant for 19 years and still learn new things, i started at 17 with a boyfriend who liked to dress, but would never of said i was experienced even at early 20's.
i just don't see how younger master/mistresses can say they are experienced as most haven't even experienced life never mind lifestyle.

(in reply to Kalira)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 6:18:04 AM

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavenishere4u

I have been a dominant for 19 years and still learn new things, i started at 17 with a boyfriend who liked to dress, but would never of said i was experienced even at early 20's.
i just don't see how younger master/mistresses can say they are experienced as most haven't even experienced life never mind lifestyle.

On the contrary. There are quite a few who have experienced both Dominance and submissiveness from a very early age; as many here on the forums and in RL could tell you.

Now, if you are talking only in terms of BDSM play, then that's a different story.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to heavenishere4u)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 6:22:24 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

quote:

Damn. How the hell would you have time unless that is your full-time job? How would you list that on your taxes anyway?

I'm seeing a spandex suit with a flogger on it.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Kalira)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 6:23:14 AM

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catchmeifyoucan2

So, perhaps I didn't answer the main thread exactly - but I tried. Enjoy the discussion.

You did fine, as all the others who have given their thoughtful responses. Just thought I'd break in here to let you know you are appreciated guys. This is helping me.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to catchmeifyoucan2)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 6:25:52 AM

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

quote:

Damn. How the hell would you have time unless that is your full-time job? How would you list that on your taxes anyway?

I'm seeing a spandex suit with a flogger on it.

OMG LMAO that visual is sooooooooo funny.

Spandex suit with the words 'superslavetrainer' in bright letters across the front, holding a plastic flogger in one hand and a kiddy cane in the other.

LOL omg

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Teenish Masters - 12/4/2006 6:31:37 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

OMG LMAO that visual is sooooooooo funny.

Spandex suit with the words 'superslavetrainer' in bright letters across the front, holding a plastic flogger in one hand and a kiddy cane in the other.

LOL omg

What would the signal be to call for him? The BDSM symbol projected onto the clouds?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Kalira)

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