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RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 10:54:08 AM

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From: Arkansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

This is no different than any other limits discussion.

For me, as a slave I accept the owners ultimate authority in this matter to breed me or not as he sees fit.

However, just like ANY decision an owner may make about their property, some may ask for input, some may make a joint decision, some may not care at all.

This is why I roll my eyes when people list off limits as "kids, dogs and death"- what about THIS sort of stuff? THIS is the stuff that we actually DEAL with in life, the stuff you actually have to TALK about and really make sure you are understanding on.

Agreed. It is all to easy to start thinking only in the kink mindset of what you will and will not do.I genrally have the "what if" discussion. I admit I do not do it on the intital "Hard limites" talk......but I will get to it eventaully. Maybe I shoudl rethink that.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 10:54:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: deadlylover
Even if he does not agree with a decision I make, he should at least respect it. If not it shows he has no real respect for you anyway because of a decision you have made which will affect you for years to come. Just my own opinion on it, of course.

We agreed that it was a choice we had to make together and one that we would have equal input on. In the end, it's really my choice and he would do what was needed. He said he would be a father if needed but that he would rather put it up for adoption. I couldn't ever decide what I wanted. Thank God I don't actually have to yet.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to deadlylover)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 10:55:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Im sorry I know where you are comeing from as a slave however if the Master doesnt want children HE should be moer carfull not to get you pregnent. If he wants the luxery of haveing sole choice on what happens to the baby then he also must take sole responsability for you getting pregnent. Please remeber abortion isnt a form of birth controll!!!

Magik's slave

as you should know, it's an Owner's perogative to do whatever the heck they want to do with their slave. if they want to line strange men up by the hundreds and have them each screw their slave unprotected, then abort when the slave becomes pregnant and then proceed to do it all over again the following week, that's their right. it may not be what you personally consider to be ethical or moral, but a Master does not have to be these things.
as for my own situation, my Master did take sole responsibility for my being pregnant, as he takes sole responsibility for anything that happens to me under his will.

OK that is one of the most horrid thought you could have put into my mind. Also may I add that the baby that is conseaved didnt consent to your actions!!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 10:56:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

He did ask for my feelings about it, but only after he had already firmly decided what he was going to do.

Why did he bother to ask for your feelings when he had already made up his mind? Sorry, that just seems cruel to me. Like raising false hope.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 10:58:27 AM

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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quote:

Why did he bother to ask for your feelings when he had already made up his mind? Sorry, that just seems cruel to me. Like raising false hope.

Actually, she was lucky. I got pregnant when I was with my first Master and I was never consulted, period, as to what would happen.

Everyone handles their own relationships differently. Some give over complete and total control; some dont. Neither is right or wrong; it's just the way it is.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 10:59:52 AM

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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I think this is a situation that is best dealt with during negotiations when you are setting up the relationship and again if you have the policy of renewing or evaluating your negotiations.

The only correct answer is the one that you can accept and live under -- that might change over time.

Outside of your relationship there will be other legal and social expectations but in general even those require that you do something to bring them up or you can ignore them if you so choose.

Personally I think the best way to ensure you don't have an unwanted pregnancy is to not have intercourse -- there are so many other things to do afterall especially if you are into all this BDSM/Leather, just think of how many more choices you have that are "non-vanilla". Have to or want to have intercourse, then I really think you need to negotiate things -- do it now if you haven't before. No "rule" that says you can't negotiate at multiple times in your relationship.

_____________________________

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 10:59:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

This really is one of those areas I am somewhat surprised to find many (apparently) don't discuss before things get "emotionally involved" between them. No judgmentalism intended (or meant) on my part. But - it's important to know these things (!) I had a similar scare in my late twenties (before I married), and ever since, I tried to make sure I discussed it with the other person re: What we'd maybe do, etc. Since I was only with two people, it wasn't really an issue, though (and one person definitely wanted no children, so it was moot). But the topic kind of makes me glad I am now menopausal (really). Good topic!

- Susan

We did discuss it when we first started dating but we were a vanilla relationship then. His opinion has been that the final say has always been up to me because it's my body and he can't carry the baby. However, the actuality of possibly having a child made me freak out a bit (He's laughing at the word "bit" now. Ok, I freaked out a lot). It also made me wonder how people feel it applies to d/s.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:01:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Wow, I am surprised you didn't discuss this issue before starting a relationship, especially if you know you are fertile and of child-bearing age. The biological father has a legal obligation to help with support of his offspring. You can refuse this support, of course. Ultimately though, a woman is responsible for her own womb.

We did. However we didn't decide what we were going to do. We discussed it and decided we would not get an abortion. If we would keep it or adopt it out would depend on the circumstances we were in at the time of conception.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:02:40 AM

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Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Im sorry I know where you are comeing from as a slave however if the Master doesnt want children HE should be moer carfull not to get you pregnent. If he wants the luxery of haveing sole choice on what happens to the baby then he also must take sole responsability for you getting pregnent. Please remeber abortion isnt a form of birth controll!!!

Magik's slave

as you should know, it's an Owner's perogative to do whatever the heck they want to do with their slave. if they want to line strange men up by the hundreds and have them each screw their slave unprotected, then abort when the slave becomes pregnant and then proceed to do it all over again the following week, that's their right. it may not be what you personally consider to be ethical or moral, but a Master does not have to be these things.
as for my own situation, my Master did take sole responsibility for my being pregnant, as he takes sole responsibility for anything that happens to me under his will.

OK that is one of the most horrid thought you could have put into my mind. Also may I add that the baby that is conseaved didnt consent to your actions!!!

Magik's slave

Daddysprop has come to a level of submission that is right for her. She made the choice to go there. I will not caste stones on her because who is to say that I will one day not rise to that level.

Also, not everyone believes abortion is wrong. For me it is, for my best friend it is not. I do not judge her for her choices she has made. She is also a feminist, I do not agree with her thinking but I count her as my all time friend forever.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:02:59 AM

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

as you should know, it's an Owner's perogative to do whatever the heck they want to do with their slave. if they want to line strange men up by the hundreds and have them each screw their slave unprotected, then abort when the slave becomes pregnant and then proceed to do it all over again the following week, that's their right. it may not be what you personally consider to be ethical or moral, but a Master does not have to be these things.
as for my own situation, my Master did take sole responsibility for my being pregnant, as he takes sole responsibility for anything that happens to me under his will.

Did he pay for the abortion himself from money he made at a job? If he did, I don't care.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:04:08 AM

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From: another planet
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Unfortunately this is one of those topics where people seem to have very strong views that they will defend until the death. I remember a thread similar to this is off topic and it just turned into a flame throwing fiasco that was removed.
I have a feeling this thread may get removed too considering its topic and the way it already looks set to go.

_____________________________

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(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:05:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

Actually, she was lucky. I got pregnant when I was with my first Master and I was never consulted, period, as to what would happen.

Everyone handles their own relationships differently. Some give over complete and total control; some dont. Neither is right or wrong; it's just the way it is.

I understand that is what works for some. I simply don't understand being consulted when what I have to say won't do any good.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Kalira)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:05:52 AM

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Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

He did ask for my feelings about it, but only after he had already firmly decided what he was going to do.

Why did he bother to ask for your feelings when he had already made up his mind? Sorry, that just seems cruel to me. Like raising false hope.

He wasn't being cruel at all, he sincerely wanted to know how i felt. He likes to know my mind and heart, but my feelings don't effect his decisions. that is just his way.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:07:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Unfortunately this is one of those topics where people seem to have very strong views that they will defend until the death. I remember a thread similar to this is off topic and it just turned into a flame throwing fiasco that was removed.
I have a feeling this thread may get removed too considering its topic and the way it already looks set to go.

Well, I hope it doesn't get removed, but if it does I will understand. I think it is definately food for thought.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to missturbation)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:07:26 AM

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From: NC
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Whew. Touchy subject for me.

With a couple of young unmentionables, it is impossible for me to wrap my mind around someone doing anything to keep me from them. Then again, since I am a sub and not a slave, it is (perhaps) a different mindset. I would drop the D/s relationship like a hot rock before I let anything happen to my precious angel bubby ch ... uh ... Easter eggs.

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:07:28 AM

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Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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quote:

I understand that is what works for some. I simply don't understand being consulted when what I have to say won't do any good

ahh but if you go back and read her post, you will see that he did NOT consult her about the decision. He asked about her FEELINGS after the decision had been made. Huge difference.

My late master did the same. He never consulted me, but he discussed my feelings on it.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:08:00 AM

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From: All over now in Minnesota
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

To no one in particular....

It's interesting how theoretically clearly defined dynamics become much less so when applied to the realities of life.

I would suggest that a relationship built upon theory and fantasy will fail when confronted with these realities. While one built upon realistic expectations will cope. What those expectations are will differ from relationship to relationship, of course.

And to be fair, relationships in any lifestyle or dynamic can fail when confronted with the unexpected.

John

I really agree with this. Having a theoretical discussion is all fine, fun and interesting but when talking about a child; theoretical has to go out the window.

Regardless of one moral views, whenever discussing bringing a child into this world is a huge decision and long term responsibility that trumps any type of relationship rule. Both parties have to agree and search within themselves for their own answers. Letting someone decide for yourself in such a serious area is at best play as their decision is probably you are in agreement with or at worse hiding behind some fake barrier that will mean nothing in the future in this matter and whether to have a child or not this non existent barrier will not comfort a person if the choice is made that goes against what they would have done and how it impacts everyone’s future on all levels.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:08:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

quote:

I understand that is what works for some. I simply don't understand being consulted when what I have to say won't do any good

ahh but if you go back and read her post, you will see that he did NOT consult her about the decision. He asked about her FEELINGS after the decision had been made. Huge difference.

My late master did the same. He never consulted me, but he discussed my feelings on it.

I suppose that makes it different. Just hard for me to wrap my head around it. Hope I didn't offend anyone.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Kalira)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:09:02 AM

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From: Arkansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Unfortunately this is one of those topics where people seem to have very strong views that they will defend until the death. I remember a thread similar to this is off topic and it just turned into a flame throwing fiasco that was removed.
I have a feeling this thread may get removed too considering its topic and the way it already looks set to go.

Well, I hope it doesn't get removed, but if it does I will understand. I think it is definately food for thought.

It definatly got me thinking and to look at things a bit more in the real sense. Infact I have a second meet tonight. Perhaps if conversation is flowing this woudl be a great question to ask.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/8/2006 11:09:43 AM

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Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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While this won't ever be an issue for me, it was something which Himself and I discussed at great length before he collared me. Aside from pregnancy (a non-issue), we both have children, there are grandchildren, to consider.. what would happen in the event I became their guardian or Himself became guardian to his grandchildren, things of that nature.

Bottom line is if you aren't already aware of the consequences, then there wasn't enough talking done prior to getting into a given situation.

As an aside, AquaticSub.. I used one of those EPT things when I thought I was pregnant and it was negative. Seven months later, I had my son. If you don't start, take the test again or, better still, Planned Parenthood (or your doc) can do a blood test which is very accurate.

You're not out of the woods yet.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to AquaticSub)

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