KnightofMists
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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mstr2you
How many times do I have to read these words " submission is a gift". Fuck you and your gift. If submission is a gift it is a gift to yourself and while selfless gifts to ones self are always appreciated and one always knows just what one needs, saying that ones submission is a gift to the dominant is an expression of the submissives ego, not at all an altruistic expression of giving which is what they would like it to mean.
I am one that doesn't see submission as a gift... but... I am one that can see that it is a gift. It really depends on what definition of gift you are using.
If you are using the definition "something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation" Well in most cases... submission would fail this particular standard. One doesn't give submission to another. My girls don't give me their submission.. if they did ... I would be more submissive. But they do act submissive towards me. It is the actions that is motivated by their submissive nature that I enjoy. It could be considered that their actions motivated by their submission are a gift for me. However, do they do this without compensation. Do they do this without expectation in return. In specific situations I suspect that they do indeed demonstrate these actions without expections. But, on a more holistic view, there is expections that I will recipocate in a certain fashion. In general, they can expect to recieve my dominant nature exerted towards them. We don't exchange anything but we do meet in the middle so to speak.
If you re using the defintion " notable capacity, talent, or endowment". This definition to me more clearly expresses that submission and even dominance maybe a gift. The key words that I consider of importance is "Notable Capacity". It really depends on ones perception of submission and dominance. Do you consider these aspects of a person to be a Notable Capacity? It could very well be a subjective answer in my opinion. I suspect that many would not consider submission to a Notable Capacity. I would say that you would find some individuals that would consider it a weakness or limitation to a person. It might not be as likely to see a person view dominance as a weakness, but I suspect that in some situations and for some people this capacity wouldn't be well view.
In the past, I never considered submission as a gift. But in the past few months, I have consider various lines of thought that showed me a logical premise that lead to submission being a gift. It really begins with what one believes and how one wishes to define "gift" .
Both are right.. it is a gift for some... and for others it is not gift.
quote:
Your submission, assuming this is real to you and not a frivoulous experiment in your sexual growth which is fine by me , is not a choice at all because it is what is inside you, it is part of you, it is a need you have. That being the case it is not a gift, it is a reaching out to your partner for a mutual satisfaction of your needs which in my opinion is exactly what this is about. In the most extreme form the sadist gets his or hers and the masochist does the same, no gifts are exchanged, just mutual needs met and I think that carries out through most bdsm relationships from the most sado maso to the most casual scening.
One may not have a choice in having this inner nature. However, it is a choice to exercise and live this part of one self. Of course this assumes that one shares the belief that it is an aspect one's inner self in the first place. Some may indeed view that such things as submission and dominance could be learned. I have no facts that would state either belief is right, it might be that their is crediblity for both possibilities.
That being said.... if it is a inner nature to a person... it actually follows that this inner nature of person is very much a Notable Capacity. Which is a key part of a definition to a "gift" Also, a peson making the choice to exercise this inner self or maybe learn a particular aspect is could be conceived as a gift to oneself. A gift that is shared with others. The question is, does one make this choice without expection of compensation. I believe that the choice is made with the expectation that gratifications will result. But, is gratifications compensation? For some yes.. for others the answer maybe no.
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Here is why this bother me. If what being offered was a true gift, as in ..here take this gift from me to you and do with it what you will , than there are no boundries, no limits, no choices because a gift that comes with conditions is surely not a gift at all and a gift that comes without any conditions can be used, ignored, or tossed in the trash at the receivers whim.
Actually this is only the basis of using one definition of "gift"... their are other definitions.
quote:
I suppose that in the insane situation where a submissive were to give his or her self with absolutely no conditions or limits at all to a dominant than one could argue it's a gift but I would still say that they are doing it out of their own need and it is still a gift to themselves .
defining it as a gift is not determined on who a person gives it to. Using the definition you are using... the gift's only standard of measure is given without compensation. So... regardless if one is giving it to another or themself. Is their compensation expected from giving of the gift? for some yes... for others no.
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Knight of Mists
An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.
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RE: It Aint A Gift - 
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